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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.21 17:58:00 -
[31]
Akita sorry but you dissapoint this time around...
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!! |
Giovanni F
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Posted - 2008.09.21 18:27:00 -
[32]
Sorry Akita, usually your posts are right on the money, but this one is off. I'm pretty keen on math, but all that shit you just wrote makes it look much more complicated. I don't really think its difficult to understand the fact that you resists rating simply means that you cut down the incoming damage from that type. 50% means that half the incoming damage from say kinetic is mitigated, 0% means you take the full hit. If they didnt get it before, it would likely prolong their learning to have the way its displayed changed, along with having to change how its displayed on the modules. Too much work to fix a problem that doesnt exist.
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Kurt Ambrose
Caldari
Digital assassins
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Posted - 2008.09.21 18:29:00 -
[33]
I find this more confusing than the current system 
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SharpMango
14th Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.21 18:40:00 -
[34]
in conclusion. everyone understands percentages.......
well certainly better than 2x0
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.21 18:47:00 -
[35]
So let's see. Base resist of 30%, add a x2 hardener makes it 60% so now I've lost 5% over the existing fit. That's how a noob would see it, even more confusing than telling them it's 50% of (100 - base). Stacking penalties would make the math even more confusing.
If it's not broken, don't try to fix it. The current system doesn't take long to pick up, even my 8 year old son managed to figure it out after being told only once. Most of my corp picked it up almost immediately. It's far easier than the OP's idea.
--
There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.09.21 18:48:00 -
[36]
No.
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.21 18:58:00 -
[37]
 Originally by: Dantes Revenge
So let's see. Base resist of 30%, add a x2 hardener makes it 60% so now I've lost 5% over the existing fit.
No. Base resist of 30% gets converted to x1.42 damage capacity.
Add a x2 Hardener (i.e. a 50% one), and you now have a total x2.84 damage capacity (i.e. a resist of 65%).
Quote:
Now try the OP's idea with 21% or even 37% amplifiers.
What about them? Turns into x1.266 and x1.587, respectively. Yes, there will be decimals all over the place, but the current system creates that as well.
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Hegbard
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Posted - 2008.09.21 19:21:00 -
[38]
I think most of us went to school and have a basic understanding of math. I'm saying basic, because that's all it takes to understand resists.
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Suboran
Gallente
Victory Not Vengeance
SOLAR WING
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Posted - 2008.09.21 19:39:00 -
[39]
whats to hard to understand about a straight up percentage?
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.21 19:53:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Suboran
whats to hard to understand about a straight up percentage?
Nothing. As I understand it, it's more about the combination calculations:
What do you get if you combine a 50%, a 33%, a 40% and a 17% resist?
What do you get if you combine a x2, a x1.5, a x1.66 and a x1.2 capacity mod?
In both cases, you get the same result. What Akita is asking is which of the two ways is easier to calculate and/or visualise.
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.09.21 20:06:00 -
[41]
I am confused by this Akita....
*points to giant question mark on top of her head*
what about T2 hardeners and the like?...
those that got more than 50% resist?
or the passive amplifiers that got less than 50?
would those be 1.1 hardening...???
sorry.. but ... I find the current system ... errrm, yeah...
Originally by: CCP Atropos
I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Suboran
Gallente
Victory Not Vengeance
SOLAR WING
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Posted - 2008.09.21 20:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Suboran
whats to hard to understand about a straight up percentage?
Nothing. As I understand it, it's more about the combination calculations:
What do you get if you combine a 50%, a 33%, a 40% and a 17% resist?
What do you get if you combine a x2, a x1.5, a x1.66 and a x1.2 capacity mod?
In both cases, you get the same result. What Akita is asking is which of the two ways is easier to calculate and/or visualise.
ohh, ive always just guestimated 
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Eternal Fury
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2008.09.21 20:43:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Eternal Fury on 21/09/2008 20:43:33
OR......
The OP could just download EFT and drop in the mods he wants to use and see the actual resists.
Less math = Good.
What's 50% of 100? 50% Resists.
What's 50 % of the remainder.. 75% Resists.
What's 50 % of the remainder.. = 87.5% Resists.
Why is this so hard.. No brackets, no overs/unders, no fractions, just simple math.
And if you can't do the math, theres EFT.
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Unfunny Alt
Anonymous Forumposters
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Posted - 2008.09.21 21:00:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Suboran
whats to hard to understand about a straight up percentage?
because it s not straight up percentage. half an apple and another half an apple (50% and 50%) makes a whole apple not three quarter of an apple.
logically what akita proposed is far easier, myself i d like to keep the % at least somewhere because saying over 90 % resists is sooo cool
Poster and Hauling Alt of Policy Handicapped Main |
soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.09.21 21:04:00 -
[45]
**soldieroffortune walks into thread, see's math in the first post, and walks out***
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Saint Lazarus
Spiorad ag fanaiocht
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Posted - 2008.09.21 21:13:00 -
[46]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
**soldieroffortune walks into thread, see's math in the first post, and walks out***
No no it simplifies everything.....or so we're told, and here I was not even realising the current system was confusing people 
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My EvE Comic
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Eskalin
Minmatar
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.21 21:17:00 -
[47]
if you don't get it GTFO for you to suggest that the devs dumb down the game any more for those who just don't "get" it makes me frigin livid there was a learning curve on the game what you are suggesting leads to hand holding and that's like balls touching gay
If babies weren't to be eaten they wouldn't be hibachi sized
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.21 21:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Eskalin
if you don't get it GTFO for you to suggest that the devs dumb down the game any more for those who just don't "get" it makes me frigin livid there was a learning curve on the game what you are suggesting leads to hand holding and that's like balls touching gay
there is already a lot of hand holding, anything more would be like unzip and point me at the toilet, and that is like balls touching balls gay.
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Unfunny Alt
Anonymous Forumposters
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Posted - 2008.09.21 21:33:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Unfunny Alt on 21/09/2008 21:34:34
Originally by: Saint Lazarus
No no it simplifies everything.....or so we're told, and here I was not even realising the current system was confusing people
no, having a resist of 80% is pretty easy and straight forward. but putting in another resist of 50% screws it up a bit. so for maths:
at the moment:
x1*(100)+x2*(100-x1*(100))+x3*(100-x2*(100-x1*(100)))
x1 to x3 are the hardeners you use, each one adds their % to the rest to 100. oh and i will keep stacking penality out of this, because i never understood it byond "don t put more than three mods with the same in your ships except guns".
akita:
100 / (1*x1*x2*x3)
edit:
oh x1 to x3 are now numbers bigger than 1, but else should be pretty much the same... or i am too tired for it now
if you want it with todays numbers:
100 / (1 * (1/x1) * (1/x2) * (1/x3)
Poster and Hauling Alt of Policy Handicapped Main |
Seishomaru
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Posted - 2008.09.21 21:34:00 -
[50]
If you cannot understand such simple concept as resistances, then eve very likely is not the place for that person. Almost everything in game is far more complicated than that. In fact almost anything after elementary school in life is way more complicated than that.
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Fifi LeFume
Infestation.
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.09.21 21:42:00 -
[51]
I am hardening
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Faife
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.09.21 21:58:00 -
[52]
bring back THAC(0) tbh...
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i am a humble and inefficent ammo to dps converter |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.09.21 21:58:00 -
[53]
I understood resists easily. The system is fairly simple and easy to understand. The only thing is you want to make sure people realize that resists are always modified based on the percent left, not the total. So if you have 50%, +50% would only give you 75%, because that's half of what was left.
The thing you are proposing seems much more confusing to me. Its much easier to think of resists as a percent than as x1.8675309
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Druadan
Aristotle Enterprises
Chances of Misfortune
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Posted - 2008.09.21 22:37:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Druadan on 21/09/2008 22:36:47
Ideas worse than this:
- The pet rock
- Jump To Conclusions board
That's it... that's all I've got.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.09.21 22:47:00 -
[55]
I understand, that you think you are trying to simplify the game, but tbh your idea doesn't do that.
The system as it stands is fine, as has been said by many in this thread.
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus
One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Sturmwolke
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.21 22:58:00 -
[56]
Quote:
"resists 0%/50%/40%/20%"
you would list them as "hardening x1/x2/x1.66666/x1.25".
Adding an Invul Field I (25% to all resists == x1.33333 hardening to all resists)
"resists are now 25%/62.5%/55%/40%"
it would just be listed as "hardening is now x1.33333/x2.66666/x2.22222/x1.66666".
Well, the idea has its own merit, being that it's easier to convert shield/amor rep rate which then can be directly translated to the amount of raw DPS the tank can sustain. The conversion involved when adding an Invul Field still needs a formula, so really, it's not a significant improvement over the percentage method.
That said, having % listed as resistance is more intuitive than having a numerical factor. Plenty of games utilize percentages and people deal with percentages everyday in RL. I don't see a strong need for adding the extra "translation".
Changing how you display one aspect of EVE math without a holistic approach is like patching a plane with duct tapes. Personally, I'd rather have the developer resources be put into something much more critical.
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.09.21 23:00:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Strill on 21/09/2008 23:03:00
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
And what exactly does knowing what multiplier more than the base tank tell you? If you're so worried about that, go plug it into Excel - the rest of us will concern ourselves with statistics that impact our combat abilities, such as how much damage actually gets through.
It tells you how much EHP you actually have. Currently a resist percentage tells you nothing and is extremely unintuitive. For example, let's say I have the choice between 80% resists and 82% resists. I'm inclined to think that it's just a puny 2% resists and ignore it when reality it's an improvement of 11%!! If we were to use the multiplier display it would be very clear that the 80% resists give you 5x hardening, while the 82% resists give you 5.55x hardening.
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.09.21 23:10:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Strill on 21/09/2008 23:13:30
Originally by: Eternal Fury
Edited by: Eternal Fury on 21/09/2008 20:43:33
OR......
The OP could just download EFT and drop in the mods he wants to use and see the actual resists.
Less math = Good.
What's 50% of 100? 50% Resists.
What's 50 % of the remainder.. 75% Resists.
What's 50 % of the remainder.. = 87.5% Resists.
Why is this so hard.. No brackets, no overs/unders, no fractions, just simple math.
And if you can't do the math, theres EFT.
Exactly! Akita's setup would make it simpler.
Instead of having to do all those remainders and come up with 87.5% resists, then have no idea how much survivability 87.5% resists actually gives, you could just do:
What's 2 times 1? 2
What's 2 times 2? 4
What's 2 times 4? 8
There, not only can you tell that your tank will be 8 times as effective, but you don't have to keep subtracting your current resists from 100 to get remainders. You just multiply everything out.
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.09.21 23:18:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Strill on 21/09/2008 23:20:21
Originally by: Saint Lazarus
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
**soldieroffortune walks into thread, see's math in the first post, and walks out***
No no it simplifies everything.....or so we're told, and here I was not even realising the current system was confusing people
Alright, if it's not confusing, tell me, how much better is 93% resists than 86%?
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Dr Wellesley
Burden of Mars
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Posted - 2008.09.21 23:26:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Strill
Edited by: Strill on 21/09/2008 23:20:21
Originally by: Saint Lazarus
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
**soldieroffortune walks into thread, see's math in the first post, and walks out***
No no it simplifies everything.....or so we're told, and here I was not even realising the current system was confusing people
Alright, if it's not confusing, tell me, how much better is 93% resists than 86%?
Twice as good, as 7 (100-93) is half of 14 (100-86).
//--<
We like trees.
We like trees.
They're so green and ... BRANCHY! |
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