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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:36:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Akita T on 21/09/2008 15:55:06
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...changing the listed "resists" with something easier to comprehend at a glimpse, like "hardening" ?
Hardening would simply be 1/(1-resist[%]), so it's not that hard to display, AND makes calculations easier.
For instance, wouldn't it be so much simpler to say "most shields have x2 natural explosive hardening" rather than the current "50% explosive resists" ?
Also, calculations are much easier too... x2 natural hardening plus a x2 hardener means x4 final hardening factor (i.e. "50% base and 50% hardener means 75% resists").
I mean, seriously, it's much easier to grasp and compare.
What's the reason we don't have it like that anyway ?
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P.S. The BASE hardening (equivalent to 0% resists) is "x1 hardening".
So, for instance, instead of listing regular shield stats as "resists 0%/50%/40%/20%" you would list them as "hardening x1/x2/x1.66666/x1.25".
Adding an Invul Field I (25% to all resists == x1.33333 hardening to all resists) would have previously been listed as "resists are now 25%/62.5%/55%/40%"... afterwards, it would just be listed as "hardening is now x1.33333/x2.66666/x2.22222/x1.66666".
Nothing would change in the amounts of damage dealt or how resists/hardening works, it would only change the way resists are DISPLAYED.
For instance, right now, to determine what amount of damage you take, you calculate:
damage = raw damage * (1 - resists[%] )
Which is basically the same as
damage = raw damage / hardening factor
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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SharpMango
14th Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:39:00 -
[2]
um. times two over what? over zero?
huh.....you're confusing me.
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Arcon Telf
Gallente
Dark Tide Rising
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:39:00 -
[3]
No.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:44:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: SharpMango
um. times two over what? over zero?
huh.....you're confusing me.
0% resists comes out as x1 hardening (i.e. "normal damage taken")
1/(1-0)=1... Duuh ?
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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sg3s
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:45:00 -
[5]
This looks like a reasonable idea, lets go with it. /signed
Originally by: Tarminic
Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:47:00 -
[6]
It isn't exactly complicated math, is it?
The bit most people miss is that the %age of a hardner is a reduction of the difference of 100% and the current resistance.
Once they get that it is pretty much plain sailing (except, of course, stacking penalites)
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Benco97
Gallente
The Star League
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:51:00 -
[7]
The current system is much better, sorry.
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:51:00 -
[8]
Can't we just let the dumb people get confused and go back to WoW?
Black Hand.
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Uzume Ame
Gallente
Dark Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:51:00 -
[9]
Don't fix what is not broken maybe? Seriouslly if they don't understand it you explain it, no need to mess with it.
Teh failure of a signature. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:52:00 -
[10]
Have you ever had a good idea? Because all I see is awful thread after awful thread.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Leviathan9
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:54:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Leviathan9 on 21/09/2008 15:55:28
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: SharpMango
um. times two over what? over zero?
huh.....you're confusing me.
0% resists comes out as x1 hardening (i.e. "normal damage taken")
1/(1-0)=1... Duuh ?
You're saying natural is 0% and 2x natural = 0 times 2 which = 0.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:56:00 -
[12]
its fine as it is
Originally by: BiggestT
the wyvern is the single hottest cap ship in existence.
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Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Benco97
The current system is much better, sorry.
This! Your proposal confuses me. When someone says they have 75% explosive resistance I immediately know their tank will absorb 75% of the damage and let 25% through. Now a 4x hardening factor, what the heck is that supposed to mean? (besides the obvious sexual innuendo )
Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:59:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 21/09/2008 16:00:31
Originally by: Benco97
The current system is much better, sorry.
It's the same system, only the way it's displayed is different.
Sure, you can TRY TO mentally calculate that 87.89124% resists means 1/(1-0.8789124) = (aprox) 8.25848394 times more tank than base on that particular now-87.89124%-resist.
But wouldn't it be THAT much simpler to just have it DISPLAY as x8.25848 in the showinfo instead ?
I repeat, absolutely nothing changes in the way resists/hardening/damagedealing/whatever works.
All that changes is the way resists are displayed.
Originally by: Jana Clant
This! Your proposal confuses me. When someone says they have 75% explosive resistance I immediately know their tank will absorb 75% of the damage and let 25% through. Now a 4x hardening factor, what the heck is that supposed to mean? (besides the obvious sexual innuendo)
4 times more tank than base/raw tank on that particular resist, of course.
What else ?
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Larg Kellein
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:03:00 -
[15]
It's not like there aren't enough broken things in Eve to devote attention to, I really don't see why you had to go and poke at something that actually works...
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Akita T
would have previously been listed as "resists are now 25%/62.5%/55%/40%"... afterwards, it would just be listed as "hardening is now x1.33333/x2.66666/x2.22222/x1.66666"
Someone says 25% resist, I know 25% of damage dealt is nullified by resists, someone says 1.3333 hardening factor, I say lolwut.
In summary, no.
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DesuSigs |
Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Akita T
4 times more tank than base/raw tank on that particular resist, of course.
What else ?
So I have to go check the base resist, and multiply it by 4, just to know the % of damage I'm tanking? No, thanks!
Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
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Saint Lazarus
Spiorad ag fanaiocht
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:07:00 -
[18]
I've understood the concept of resis's since the day I joined, its simple as it is and much easier to read. If someone dosent get it chances are they're just thick and no system will be easy for them to grasp
/not signed sorry, but I like how it is
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My EvE Comic
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Ralph Chow
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Akita T
Sure, you can TRY TO mentally calculate that 87.89124% resists means 1/(1-0.8789124) = (aprox) 8.25848394 times more tank than base on that particular now-87.89124%-resist.
But wouldn't it be THAT much simpler to just have it DISPLAY as x8.25848 in the showinfo instead ?
Yah, but if it says x2.5 on my show info, I am left wondering "2.5 x what?"
How about we meet halfway, on the ship info you keep the resistances the way they are, ie 55% as it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that you block 55% of that type of damage.
Now on the module screen, I would have no problem it saying "x1.3333 bonus to resist". That way, all I would have to do is multiply my ships resist by the mod: 55% x 1.3333
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ArmyOfMe
Pernicious Creed
Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:10:00 -
[20]
bad idea, nothing else to say about it really
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Armoured C
Gallente
The Aztecs
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:11:00 -
[21]
the resist are fine so in short nooooooo
in long nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
remember carebears arnt people they are flying pinyata's
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Vek NaVek
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:16:00 -
[22]
I present Akita-T's new eve fitting screen now with Mr. Clippy
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Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:18:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Jana Clant on 21/09/2008 16:18:11
Originally by: Armoured C
the resist are fine so in short nooooooo
in long nooooooooo...[a disturbing amount of O's]
You just watched Zero Punctuation's latest vid, haven't you?
EDIT: Now with less forum-breakageÖ!
Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Central Research Nexus
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:18:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 21/09/2008 16:24:28
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 21/09/2008 16:00:31
Sure, you can TRY TO mentally calculate that 87.89124% resists means 1/(1-0.8789124) = (aprox) 8.25848394 times more tank than base on that particular now-87.89124%-resist.
But wouldn't it be THAT much simpler to just have it DISPLAY as x8.25848 in the showinfo instead ?
Orrrr, you could just mentally calculate 100% - approximately 88% = 12% of your damage gets through, which is orders of magnitude more useful than knowing what multiplier of the base the resist is. If I get a multiplier, I then have to look up/remember the base resist then add a multiplication step just to get the info I could have gotten in a simple subtraction with a % based resistance. Also, wait until you apply the slightly varying base resists and the insane t2 resists; consistency in display is a good thing. I dare say newbies would be MORE confused when they heard of tech 2 ships running around with the same 'tank' as their t1 ships as the multiplier is the same; such ambiguity does not exist with the absolute % system.
The only mildly confusing bit at all about the current system is that the hardener % increase is a % of the difference of 100 - Current, and even that is fixed by a little addition to the description, not going nuts and making an overcomplicated system of weapon-esque multipliers that serve no useful purpose.
Also:
Originally by: Akita T
Sure, you can TRY TO mentally calculate that 87.89124% resists means 1/(1-0.8789124) = (aprox) 8.25848394 times more tank than base on that particular now-87.89124%-resist.
But wouldn't it be THAT much simpler to just have it DISPLAY as x8.25848 in the showinfo instead ?
And what exactly does knowing what multiplier more than the base tank tell you? If you're so worried about that, go plug it into Excel - the rest of us will concern ourselves with statistics that impact our combat abilities, such as how much damage actually gets through.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:20:00 -
[25]
Yeah... like you care a ship has x% resists on this and that ?
All you REALLY care about is how much more damage it can tank.
You won't hear anybody say "I can tank 95% damage on 50 base repair"... you'll hear "I can tank 1000 DPS".
Or, in other words "50 base repair with a x20 hardening factor".
Sheesh, the hostility on ANY display change, even if it's one that simplifies your life 
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Larg Kellein
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Akita T
Sheesh, the hostility on ANY display change, even if it's one that simplifies your life
Yeah, that's assuming it did simplify anything, though. Which it doesn't. Percentage of any given damage resisted is useful, base x8.369765422 is not. And if all you hear is raw dps tanked, you need to stop hanging with the eft warriors.
It's not random hostility that causes everyone in the thread so far to disagree with you, it's that your idea is horrible.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:37:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Akita T
Sheesh, the hostility on ANY display change, even if it's one that simplifies your life
Sorry Akita, I don't see how it simplifies anything. The current system is pretty straightforward.
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
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chiisai sakana
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Posted - 2008.09.21 17:06:00 -
[28]
this topic sounds like someone doesn't want to
learn how to play but to force others to move
away from the current system that works fine
because he is
a) stupid 
b) lazy 
c) both.
eve isn't an easy game that everyone understands immediately, you'll just have to live with it.
PS. learn some math, it'll do you good.
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.21 17:08:00 -
[29]
If you wanted to simplify it, just get the fitting screen to also show effective HP by damage type.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
GallenteCitizen20080615
Gallente
Federation War News
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Posted - 2008.09.21 17:17:00 -
[30]
he hitting that
dont be starting on meh
-_/-_/-_/-_/-
Please return trays to their upright position.
Thanks you for riding the forums |
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