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Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:13:00 - [1] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 22/09/2008 03:13:21 This is the Enemy The Amarrian people have been facing the depredations of the Demon for thousands of years. The ways this manifests itself have always been similar. Deceit, treachery, and blasphemy are the weapons of the Deceiver. The goal of this monster: to destroy everything the Amarrian people hold sacred and to reverse the plan of God. That the hand of he Matari "Elders" and Shakor, the newly appointed dictator of the Matari insurrection, have demonstrated from the start of this war that they represent the newest head of this ancient hydra. Their craven surprise attack upon the Amarrian Empire represents the single most heinous act of deception in human history. They spat upon the hand of peace, offered by the Pious and Wise Emperors Doriam II and Heideran VII, and they launched a deceitful campaign of aggression that cost millions of lives in a single day. The goal of their campaign is exactly the same goal the minions of demonic power have always sought; to destroy the Empire of God and defecate upon His holy places. Thousands of brave pilots are now locked in the struggle to reverse the effects of the Matari treachery and to bring these evildoers to justice. These forces have begun to reverse the ill gotten gains of Shakor over the last months and with the help of God will continue to do so. But perseverance and the support of all those who believe in all that is good is needed. This war will not be over quickly. We must push the barbarians back to their caves, as they have proven unfit to be treated with in peace. To do this we need the support of every last soldier of God and every lover of peace and justice. Punish those who are responsible for the death that spans the stars. Show Shakor and his cronies that there is no tolerance in this universe for those who started this war. We did not start this war, but, by His light and His will, we shall finish it. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:20:00 - [2] The war began when the first Matari was stolen and enslaved. You need to brush up on your history, dear Gaven.
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:24:00 - [3] Nonsense. The Matari signed the same peace treaty Amarr did over a century ago. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Vlad Cetes Caldari Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri The goal of their campaign is exactly the same goal the minions of demonic power have always sought; to destroy the Empire of God and defecate upon His holy places. Thousands of brave pilots are now locked in the struggle to reverse the effects of the Matari treachery and to bring these evildoers to justice. These forces have begun to reverse the ill gotten gains of Shakor over the last months and with the help of God will continue to do so. Why should those of us who are not even human care about defecation on holy places. It is so much easier and, according to some non-converted crew, more aesthetically pleasing to set it on fire and watch it burn to ash. The only thing your worthless throwing away of lives of soldiers will do is delay the inevitable. Amarr will burn. And I will personally insure that Sarum is tortured in killed, [i]slowly[/i[. I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:27:00 - [5] Appeal to law all you like, dear Gaven. What is right supersedes what is legal.
Vlad Cetes Caldari Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:28:00 - [6] Originally by: Kai Zion Appeal to law all you like, dear Gaven. What is right supersedes what is legal. Negative. What he who has the most firepower says is right. Any other opinions can be exterminated at will. I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:28:00 - [7] You've got it mixed up dear. Right makes might, not the other way around. Next.
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:31:00 - [8] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 22/09/2008 03:33:17 This Is the face of the Enemy. In the above thread, and here in this one. Mr. Cetes proves why we must fight to defend everything we hold dear. Quote: The only thing your worthless throwing away of lives of soldiers will do is delay the inevitable. Amarr will burn. And I will personally insure that Sarum is tortured and killed, slowly. I suggest anyone who believes the Matari are in the right should look very closely at his words. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Vlad Cetes Caldari Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:38:00 - [9] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri I suggest anyone who believes the Matari are in the right should look very closely at his words. Did I say the Matari were right? Have I never said any particular ideology is right. There is only one absolute truth in this world: power flows from the barrel of a gun. You don't have the most guns. I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:46:00 - [10] Am I doing it right, dearest Gaven?
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:49:00 - [11] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 22/09/2008 03:50:14 The Matari do love their Fedos. Though I would not rate them very high on the threat index, unless you have a particularly strong sense of smell. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:57:00 - [12] I guess you've never seen a mutated Mother Fedo in full oestrus? Trust me, their foul smell is the least threatening part. That whiptail can really mess you up!
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:59:00 - [13] Really? The new things you learn every day. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.09.22 04:04:00 - [14] Oh yes, really. I wouldn't lie to you, darling Gaven. I believe the good Doctor Cosmopolite has a few specimens in his lab, in fact. Lovely chatting with you anyhow, I best get back to work. Now don't you go being a naughty GodSlave while my back is turned, mhm!
Vlad Cetes Caldari Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.09.22 04:05:00 - [15] If "Dr. Cosmo" is admitting new patients, perhaps he should examine Individual Lok'ri here. Anyone who actually believes in an invisible man is probably not in control of all his mental facilities. I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.22 04:08:00 - [16] Of course you weren't lieing. Really, I believe every word that comes out of your mouth. Have fun with your work, Heretic. Don't let the reality that after this short existence you will burn for an eternity weigh you down. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Vlad Cetes Caldari Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.09.22 04:18:00 - [17] My technology allows me to live forever here and now. With cloning we ARE immortal, why would such an ILLUSION like an eternity bother me? I know it won't happen so I'm not concerned. I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.
Natalia Duraldi Gallente Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.09.22 04:19:00 - [18] So whats worse, a free heretic, or an empire led by a heretic?
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.22 04:23:00 - [19] Your point is off target. If Jamyl was a Heretic the Theology Council would have condemned her. Therefore, she cannot, by definition, be a Heretic. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Natalia Duraldi Gallente Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.09.22 04:33:00 - [20] So everything that the Theology council says or does is right? What about the fallibility of man and their inability to truly interpret the word of God?
Myxx Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.22 04:37:00 - [21] Edited by: Myxx on 22/09/2008 04:42:50 Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 22/09/2008 03:13:21 This is the Enemy The Amarrian people have been facing the depredations of the Demon for thousands of years. The ways this manifests itself have always been similar. Deceit, treachery, and blasphemy are the weapons of the Deceiver. The goal of this monster: to destroy everything the Amarrian people hold sacred and to reverse the plan of God. That the hand of he Matari "Elders" and Shakor, the newly appointed dictator of the Matari insurrection, have demonstrated from the start of this war that they represent the newest head of this ancient hydra. Their craven surprise attack upon the Amarrian Empire represents the single most heinous act of deception in human history. They spat upon the hand of peace, offered by the Pious and Wise Emperors Doriam II and Heideran VII, and they launched a deceitful campaign of aggression that cost millions of lives in a single day. The goal of their campaign is exactly the same goal the minions of demonic power have always sought; to destroy the Empire of God and defecate upon His holy places. Thousands of brave pilots are now locked in the struggle to reverse the effects of the Matari treachery and to bring these evildoers to justice. These forces have begun to reverse the ill gotten gains of Shakor over the last months and with the help of God will continue to do so. But perseverance and the support of all those who believe in all that is good is needed. This war will not be over quickly. We must push the barbarians back to their caves, as they have proven unfit to be treated with in peace. To do this we need the support of every last soldier of God and every lover of peace and justice. Punish those who are responsible for the death that spans the stars. Show Shakor and his cronies that there is no tolerance in this universe for those who started this war. We did not start this war, but, by His light and His will, we shall finish it. You went and took one third of all matari people and don't expect retribution when they get **ed off about the "hand of peace" being a coercing, decietful and violent attitude of "bend to our will, or no peace"? Hypocrite. I don't even care for either side, and yet, you seem to be lacking the ability to use logic properly. thats like trying to trap a lion and thinking its tamed, and then being mad when it bites you in the neck when you turned your back on it. I think you should seriously reconsider what you say in the name of your "religion" because it isn't entirely correct. The way they see it, I do believe that they are more than willing to fight to the death to exact a retribution that has been being worked to for ages. ---- Originally by:** Tishlin Veredici CONCORD is like the UN. Their entire job is to do nothing until its too late.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.09.22 04:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 22/09/2008 03:13:21 This is the Enemy The Amarrian people have been facing the depredations of the Demon for thousands of years. The ways this manifests itself have always been similar. Deceit, treachery, and blasphemy are the weapons of the Deceiver. The goal of this monster: to destroy everything the Amarrian people hold sacred and to reverse the plan of God. Neither the Thukker nor the Elders have ever promised the Amarr Empire peace. Before the Rebellion, the Amarr mounted an organised campaign of assassination and brutal murder against the Elders. That any survived, hidden away in the empty depths of the Great Wildlands, came as a surprise to all of us. But that their first move, once they revealed themselves, was to strike at the Amarr Empire, shouldn't shock anyone. But what did they really do when they came forth? They hit at the worst centres of oppression and slavery in the Empire, spread Insorum in planetary atmospheres, grabbed as many slaves as possible... And left. We cannot say, of course, what the fleet that died in Sarum would have done, unless someone is claiming to be psychic, but as for the rest of their ships, they took our people - their people - and went home. So tell me how this was born in deceit? What Matari power could promise you immunity to justice for what the Empire has done, when the Matari have no higher power than the Elders. Had your ancestors not been so keen to eradicate the history, the religion, the lore and the power the Elders respresented, you might have had someone to actually negotiate with. And if you had ever obtained such an agreement, you could call this a betrayal. Whether it would be of the same magnitude as, say, demanding a peace treaty with the Republic and then continuing to raid for slaves across the border... well, that's debatable. And by "debatable", I mean "No, it isn't". The truth is, the agenda of the Matari remains as it has always been: The reunion of our people, our family. The best way to ensure that it goes no further than that, is to put down your whips, and so take ours away. I leave you with one final thought: When the ears hear only The mouth shouting And the eyes see only The fingers broken The world has turned And God has gone Left us with fond memories Of sweet life without pain. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.22 04:45:00 - [23] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 22/09/2008 04:45:20 Myxx: I expect the Matari to agree to a hundred year old peace treaty that they signed. If they are going to declare war, I expect them to do it in a civilized fashion in accordance with the treaties they have signed. Instead, the current Matari leadership launched the largest surprise attack in history and a hostile takeover of their own government. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Myxx Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.22 04:53:00 - [24] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 22/09/2008 04:46:18 I expect the Matari to agree to a hundred year old peace treaty that they signed. If they are going to declare war, I expect them to do it in a civilized fashion in accordance with the treaties they have signed. Instead, the current Matari leadership launched the largest surprise attack in history and a hostile takeover of their own government. You dont get it. do you? The peace treaty was void the moment an amaarian ship crossed the border. The fact they didn't retaliate sooner is more amazing and a testament to their will than anything. ---- Originally by: Tishlin Veredici CONCORD is like the UN. Their entire job is to do nothing until its too late.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.09.22 05:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri I expect the Matari to agree to a hundred year old peace treaty that they signed. If they are going to declare war, I expect them to do it in a civilized fashion in accordance with the treaties they have signed. The problem you have is that the peace treaty was with the Republic, formed of four tribes out of seven: the Brutor, the Sebiestor, the Krusual and the Vherokior. The "Elder fleet" came from the lands of the Thukker. Had the Republic government of the time had any knowledge of it, do you really think Prime Minister Midular would have fired Ambassador Yun? Then they struck, and they struck hard. Politically, what effectively happened next was the dissolution of the Republic as we knew it at the time, with its citizens defecting en masse to a new entity - a united body of the seven tribes, of which Shakor has just been crowned San Matar. Seven tribes, only four of which had previously been bound by a treaty - and that treaty was broken by the Amarr almost the night it was signed. Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri ...As for their actions: First: They used insorium, a known maddening agent, in their attack. In other words, they wished to create mass destruction, at the expense of the now dead unarmed slaves who died in the rioting and after the "elders" had to leave the field. Second: They only retreated after their advance had been decisively defeated. Pretending they wanted less than a complete crippling attack on Amarr is deceitful at best. The "maddening" effect of which you speak is much more likely to be Vitoc, a psychoactive drug, and simple human cruelty, Gaven. After all, your own people inhaled the Insorum too. That those left behind paid a heavy price for their brethren's freedom, I do not dispute, but this fleet only had the one chance to save as many as possible. As for the question of a crippling attack, yes. Of course they wanted enemy forces crippled and out of the fight. When you are carrying civilians to safety, you do not leave ships and armaments lying around that can destroy their transports and kill the thousands inside when they are but a breath away from freedom. Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri The reality is that the Elders are nothing more than a gimmick by Shakor's supporters to take over the Republic and launch the most brutal surprise attack in history. Perhaps, but it does not change the fact that your claims of attempted genocide are, by the evidence so far, grossly exaggerated. And it doesn't change the fact that you are holding our people prisoner. Let them go and then shout to me of your innocence, of the hardships and injustice you endure. Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri And your scripture quote missed the mark, it does not refer to what you seem to think it refers. That's exactly what I've said to you many times about this one: The great Amarr Empire was founded to cultivate the spirit of man. To do so the enemies of the outside had to be defeated and the enemies of the inside controlled. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.22 05:35:00 - [26] Quote: That's exactly what I've said to you many times about this one: The great Amarr Empire was founded to cultivate the spirit of man. To do so the enemies of the outside had to be defeated and the enemies of the inside controlled. To elaborate: This: When the ears hear only The mouth shouting And the eyes see only The fingers broken The world has turned And God has gone Left us with fond memories Of sweet life without pain. Is from a prophecy concerning the end of time. The Apocalypse. It is actually relevant to this thread, for it is exactly what the souls of Evanda and Kai will be experiencing. The Faithful, however, have a different destiny. From the same book: At the end of days when they descend Watch for the coming of the Ark For within it Salvation is carried. When God's work in this universe is done, the Faithful will leave it. Only those who are not among the elect have a future of eternal pain to look forward to. I am not exactly sure what you were attempting to do with that scripture, as unless you like reminding yourself of your future I fail to see what point you were making. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.09.22 06:09:00 - [27] What did I tell you about misbehaving, hmm? Anyhow, my precious Gaven, I don't plan on dying. I'm afraid that means I won't be seeing hell save for on the other side of infinity which, of course, makes about as much sense as a shield tanked Apocalypse. (See what I did there? How witty of me.) When the suns go dark, I'll still be here eating strawberries and singing Khanid lullabies. Do pass my regards on to Mr God though.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.09.22 06:10:00 - [28] Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 22/09/2008 06:12:16 Gods, transcendentalists. It's not the belief in an "invisible man in the sky" that makes this line of belief so often such a headache for the rest of us. It's that you draw your moral authority from something outside the universe, something that not only can't be seen or felt, but whose dictates supersede any moral impulse that is of this world. I don't claim to be the sort being who can declare the divine Truth of any god, nor am I even a very "good" being in any conventional, human sense, Mr. Lok'ri, but let me at least remind you of something since you insist upon sticking your vision of the end of all things in our collective face: You are tainted. Your body has been cloned, your mind transferred, your soul damaged, which, as I understand it, means you'll be stuck here with the rest of us heretics and heathens. On the extremely off chance that you do turn out to be right about your God and His intentions, we can look forward to your continued presence among us for a goodly long time. I wonder what state you'll be left in. After this little piece of self-congratulation on your part, I must say it would just about be worth it to find out. Ghost Festival is recruiting!
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.09.22 06:37:00 - [29] That's more or less what I meant, my dear Gaven. But the difference is, you believe your people to be faithful, to be doing the will of God. At least that's what you tell yourself. But I can't help but wonder, when you look at the people around you - at your dead Empress, at the Holders on your planets, even at the staff who run your SPCS facilities, do you really believe that they're doing it for the betterment of Man? Can you believe that of every single one? Any member of Amarr society can be handed total power over another human being, and it's simply human nature to abuse power, especially when it can be done with impunity. Slave-holding can benefit someone economically through cheap labour, can bolster the ego of the lowest member of society by placing someone beneath them, can let someone vent their own impotence through cruelty - do you really believe that Amarr society is immune to these pitfalls? Or are those who shout loudest of their virtue, their adherence to the will of god, of their benevolent bestowing of enlightenment just doing it to drown out the whimpering, the cries of the people they grind beneath their heels? Do you yourself deliberately block your ears to the reality and just listen to their vocal claims? And likewise, you speak here about these "great injustices" inflicted on your people, the injuries done to you, but you don't look at all at your Empire's history of conquest and rapine, the many nations brought to heel under the lash, the "surpise attacks" and undeclared wars that have started with the Empire, your own nation's violations of the very treaties it proposed, the way it pushes for the upholding of only one side. You see only the injury, and I understand that, I really do. The pain closest to home is the most immediate, and no one likes to look at themselves when the time comes to appoint blame. But if the world turns, can you really look at your own nation and see anything other than the very demon you describe? -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.22 07:09:00 - [30] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 22/09/2008 07:10:05 Quote: doing it for the betterment of Man? They are doing it to bring Man closer to God's will. . As for your complaints about our empire: We have never hidden behind lies and surprise attacks. Despite what your "tradition" says of us. Yes I know you have that myth about the "day of darkness", but it contradicts every other reality of the Matari conquest. We declared war, came in directly and the Matari people were outmatched. Now, if we want to get into this blame game the answer is far less simple than you would make it. If we trace the first crime, we will end up on the homeworld. The first crime of the Matari people was the decision on the homeworld to abandon God. Your far distant ancestors forced ours into exile, if you want to go into ancient history. But I do not wish to dwell on ancient history. I wish to dwell on the here and now. The reality of the last century is that Amarr has offered peace on an unprecedented scale (even the Gallente recognized this as they gave Emperor Heideran their peace prize) while the Matari people, in return, have offered death on an unprecedented scale. The current regime of the Matari people seized power through lies and brutal force aimed at their own people as well as at the Amarrian people. The Elders are a myth, a lie made up to legitimize the takeover of the Matari people by Shakor. Try and spin it as you will; but the Matari people are the ones who started this war with their assault on CONCORD itself. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'

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