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Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.06.18 17:49:00 - [31] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Maya Rkell Josh, THAT change is in (the MWD-sig radius 500%) Are you sure? NPC Interceptors aren't any easier to hit regardless of whether they are mwd'ing or not. It seems to me that the disadvantage of using the MWD is 100% cancelled out because your speed negates 100% any tracking boost your enemy gets. No, it's worse than that. You get the 500% the MOMENT you activate it. Yes, that makes blockade running using MWD's suicidal. WTB T2 afterburners "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Nootami	Posted - 2004.06.18 17:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Maya Rkell Josh, THAT change is in (the MWD-sig radius 500%) Are you sure? NPC Interceptors aren't any easier to hit regardless of whether they are mwd'ing or not. It seems to me that the disadvantage of using the MWD is 100% cancelled out because your speed negates 100% any tracking boost your enemy gets. I think that only happens if they are flying perpendicular to you. Or parallel. I hate geometry. I think the sig radius makes em easier to hit if they are flying straight at you. Originally by: Cortex Reaver [22:39:59] [Oi]Nootami1 joined channel [22:40:02] [Oi]Nootami1 quit Oh,look! Someone joined for a whopping .3 seconds! -CR
DeMundus	Posted - 2004.06.18 18:02:00 - [33] The frigs is not uber! They suck! missil in comming? Run! well I vote for a roll back to 1448 and then toss in all the new stuff
Finraer	Posted - 2004.06.18 18:07:00 - [34] Originally by: Nootami Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Maya Rkell Josh, THAT change is in (the MWD-sig radius 500%) Are you sure? NPC Interceptors aren't any easier to hit regardless of whether they are mwd'ing or not. It seems to me that the disadvantage of using the MWD is 100% cancelled out because your speed negates 100% any tracking boost your enemy gets. I think that only happens if they are flying perpendicular to you. Or parallel. I hate geometry. I think the sig radius makes em easier to hit if they are flying straight at you. I orbitted at 15km with and without a MWD fitted/running while testing out some Interceptor setups last night (2ABs and larger AB were fun!). I took a helluva lot more damage and hits with the MWD than with no speed mod against frigates and cruisers - didn't find an NPC BS to test against or another interceptor. sig radius appears to apply all the time. /me rushes out to enter the race for the front of the queue at the tech 2 AB shop. As an aside - the transverse effect doesn't seem to need all that great a speed to get very low chance of being hit for frigate vs BS. In testing against a corpmates Tempest (1400s) in a griffin (which was fun when he hit me for a wrecking!!): orbitting at his optimal, I had to slow from 300 to 200 to 100 for him to start hitting me. So I am guessing that vs BS no MWD is by far the best option as 200 of transverse velocity was enough to make me safe. Obviously this effect will vary with guns and ammo.
Isiana	Posted - 2004.06.18 18:09:00 - [35] when real missile speeds hit, frigs will not be uber since they wont be able to outrun them at all Carebear\|Me Alts
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.06.18 18:14:00 - [36] Cruise missiles will get an agility balance to counter the speed increase. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
bUBbLeS	Posted - 2004.06.18 18:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Finraer Originally by: Nootami Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Maya Rkell Josh, THAT change is in (the MWD-sig radius 500%) Are you sure? NPC Interceptors aren't any easier to hit regardless of whether they are mwd'ing or not. It seems to me that the disadvantage of using the MWD is 100% cancelled out because your speed negates 100% any tracking boost your enemy gets. I think that only happens if they are flying perpendicular to you. Or parallel. I hate geometry. I think the sig radius makes em easier to hit if they are flying straight at you. I orbitted at 15km with and without a MWD fitted/running while testing out some Interceptor setups last night (2ABs and larger AB were fun!). I took a helluva lot more damage and hits with the MWD than with no speed mod against frigates and cruisers - didn't find an NPC BS to test against or another interceptor. sig radius appears to apply all the time. /me rushes out to enter the race for the front of the queue at the tech 2 AB shop. As an aside - the transverse effect doesn't seem to need all that great a speed to get very low chance of being hit for frigate vs BS. In testing against a corpmates Tempest (1400s) in a griffin (which was fun when he hit me for a wrecking!!): orbitting at his optimal, I had to slow from 300 to 200 to 100 for him to start hitting me. So I am guessing that vs BS no MWD is by far the best option as 200 of transverse velocity was enough to make me safe. Obviously this effect will vary with guns and ammo. i have been mostly hunting various NPCs in me claw for a laff and oh is it a laff they only thing that troubles me is NPC ceptors... or packs of 5 or greater NPC frigs nothing else can hit me me and a mate in ceptors took out countless cruiser NPC's (including a 300K one) 100K guristas sheild boost to quick for me to do actually kill killed an NPC bship with a Bship flying buddy too i also did some testing with corp m8s in bships... is soooo funny to have cruise missiles chasing me! but no.. none of thier big guns could hit me unless i was webbies AND turned my mwd on! i lub this new patch!! Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
Systemlord	Posted - 2004.06.18 18:21:00 - [38] Edited by: Systemlord on 18/06/2004 18:23:29 Originally by: Bhaal Let me ask you something... Should a US NAVY battleship be able to hit a jet-engine powered racing boat doing doughnuts aroud it's hull with it's 16" guns??? I think not! Should it be able to hit this target at 1000 yards? Maybe, with a lucky shot... Could guys on deck destroy this boat with hand held machines guns. probably, better chance than with the 16" batteries... Dude, a US navy battleship can shoot down incoming small missiles doing mach3+ with automated gatling guns. And then there are all the kinds of other missiles and guns they have for all ranges, any superfast small boat with 16 guns wouldent live for 20 seconds against a real navy battleship/carrier, you are thinking of the large guns from ww1 and 2, hardly a comparasment to today and certantly not way into the future where EVE is taking place Battleships should definately be able to defend themselves against a few cruisers/frigates.
Lachenlaud	Posted - 2004.06.18 18:25:00 - [39] Originally by: Bhaal Should a US NAVY battleship be able to hit a jet-engine powered racing boat doing doughnuts aroud it's hull with it's 16" guns??? Am I in a boat on the water? Nope. I'm in a highly advance space vehicle. Stop making references to Planet based ocean going war ships... while the 'class names' might be the same, the technology behind them can hardly be the same. FYI - I had absolutely NO problem taking out a couple of high speed frigates with my Megathron after the patch. Originally by: greenhornet I am pretty sure spaceships should b alittle bit more advanced than speedboats just a wee bit and should be able to defend themselves against tiny little frigates.and even with med guns frigates are very hard I agree with that. They _should_ be more advanced. Lets get off the damned Navy Boat kick. We're not in boats... we're not in the water, and we're not operating in an atmosphere. The way things work _SHOULD_ be different. I just wish CCP would stop listening to everyone and his brother that's served time mopping decks on a PT boat during their weekend warrior training. YES I think we needed more balance - NO you're not ALL going to be happy about it. Guess what - it would be impossible to make ALL of you happy. CHANGES have been made to the game mechanics... stop whining and ADAPT. Survive and succeed! If you no longer have your super whammy chicken gun to mete out pure pwnage on teh little guy from your all powerful flying battle platform of doom, find a new way to do it that works WITHIN the new mechanics of the game. If you can't, then you're not half the player you thought you were. 'nuff said! [email protected] http://www.goi-eve.com/forums/ Check out the Eve Master Datasheet here!!
LoxyRider	Posted - 2004.06.18 18:25:00 - [40] Quote: Is that why 70 % of the original players have sold there accounts on ebay? hehe Sry just had to laugh, carry on. ----- Eris Discordia; I think the proper term is <3
Bhaal	Posted - 2004.06.18 18:28:00 - [41] "Dude, a US navy battleship can shoot down incoming small missiles doing mach3+ with automated gatling guns, and then there are all the ginds of other missiles and guns they have for all ranges" Dude... that's my point. BS pilots can't just mount all big long rage weaps and be able to kill everything from an Interceptor to other BS's with that one uber LONG RANGE setup... I guess I don't know what you're trying to say... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Ostaps	Posted - 2004.06.19 11:33:00 - [42] Edited by: Ostaps on 19/06/2004 11:34:41 Jeez, look at all the whiners and moaners. Let that battleship rest in the hangar, jump in your favorite frigate and let the action begin. I have a battleship, I totally understand the game is more balanced now and this way of thinking is absolute nonsense. Yeah right, keep the game fun for the elder pilots and allow them to be happy blowing away noob pilots in frigs and cruisers. That's not what it's going to be, dear moaners. This game (as anything that is supposed to sell) is going to be adapted for new people. So that new people can have lots of fun immediately, not wait and mine veldspar for 2 months and skill up waiting to reach "that" level. Besides, a good pilot will learn and adapt. Things now are what they supposed to be - it's about chosing the right tool for the right job. And no more "I have uber ship, I own all"...
Sally	Posted - 2004.06.19 12:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Wait until the MWD changes come into effect which make frigates/cruisers get a vastly increased sig. radius. Then we'll see the tracking changes come into effect properly. I don't know what game you are playing, maybe some kind of a forum game, but the MWD related changes are in game and working as intended. -- Stories: #1 --
Sally	Posted - 2004.06.19 12:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Maya Rkell Josh, THAT change is in (the MWD-sig radius 500%) It seems to me that the disadvantage of using the MWD is 100% cancelled out because your speed negates 100% any tracking boost your enemy gets. That's how it is supposed to work. -- Stories: #1 --
illuminati	Posted - 2004.06.19 12:11:00 - [45] This is a crappy thread actually, could we just lock it please? I dont like the banning policy CCP has, they should permban Lord Zap, the modding on the forum sucks evey now and then but is ok otherwise, once a GM told me "GM > hey no way", I hate everyone "flame flame" nudge nudge, lock please :D
Gween	Posted - 2004.06.19 12:15:00 - [46] Originally by: "Joshua Calvert" I think we should all cease complaining about anything to do with the performance of guns until the Dev's have looked into the details. They are aware that the poor performance is related to range not tracking. Wait until the MWD changes come into effect which make frigates/cruisers get a vastly increased sig. radius. Then we'll see the tracking changes come into effect properly. It already is - a kessie with 2 mwd online has 3600m sig radius - it glows like a sun! -------------- Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy ...
Araviel	Posted - 2004.06.19 12:38:00 - [47] hey, im not a nub and im still happy EPIC Recruitment post
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.06.19 12:40:00 - [48] Originally by: Gween Originally by: "Joshua Calvert" I think we should all cease complaining about anything to do with the performance of guns until the Dev's have looked into the details. They are aware that the poor performance is related to range not tracking. Wait until the MWD changes come into effect which make frigates/cruisers get a vastly increased sig. radius. Then we'll see the tracking changes come into effect properly. It already is - a kessie with 2 mwd online has 3600m sig radius - it glows like a sun! Yeah, I realised it was already in after I posted Another symptom of the Chaos server being perma-full. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Xavier Cardde	Posted - 2004.06.19 13:13:00 - [49] only problem is I cant hit jack-anything with motion prediction 4 at very close range... explain that.
Nexz	Posted - 2004.06.19 13:24:00 - [50] Well guys just calm down, and lets all fly cruisers! Im playing 8-9 months now and im still flying my trusty Thorax. Emotional moment. Ah the memories ^^. Another point of argument is that all the noobs fly bses. I just CANNOT believe it. Its a good thing to step back a little because this game was going CRAZY! Good job CCP Nexz _____________________________________________ I am Millennium
Einheriar Glad	Posted - 2004.06.19 13:31:00 - [51] Originally by: Nexz Well guys just calm down, and lets all fly cruisers! Im playing 8-9 months now and im still flying my trusty Thorax. Emotional moment. Ah the memories ^^. Another point of argument is that all the noobs fly bses. I just CANNOT believe it. Its a good thing to step back a little because this game was going CRAZY! Good job CCP Nexz and again a non pvp player says hura, my mining ship is safe
Racknan	Posted - 2004.06.19 13:45:00 - [52] Edited by: Racknan on 19/06/2004 13:47:00 Originally by: greenhornet Is that why 70 % of the original players have sold there accounts on ebay? 70% of stacticts are made up on the spot..... and yes, for those to dense to realise - I made that up too, just like greenhornet made up that 70% comment.
Reiisha	Posted - 2004.06.19 13:45:00 - [53] I'd agree with Gangsta.... If you want your bs to handle frigs, fit small guns and smartbombs. To handle cruisers, fit med guns and some missiles. That's what a bs is really supposed to be capable of, fitting everything. That's why it doesn't have the base powergrid and cpu to fit all top modules. Only thing i'd like to see changed now on the bs bonusses is to change it from large guns only to all guns of that category. Then it would be all ok, since fitting small or med guns wouldn't be that mkuch of a loss anymore to the firepower of a bs. Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming!
Khyle	Posted - 2004.06.19 14:24:00 - [54] Edited by: Khyle on 19/06/2004 14:33:06 Can anybody fill me in on the details, whats the problem actually? (despite some weapons being bugged) I normally fly a blasterthron and it took me about 2 hours to figure out how to bring it back to the performance im used to (Hint: if your target cant move, who cares about tracking). Though i do miss the good old hull rubbing ;) (ruins your tracking nowadays). I even tried out a few dual 250mm (350 werent out by then), and had no probs whatsover ganking frigs at 25-30km (if they are trying to enter an orbit of less than 20km, if they orbit you outside 20km, wave happily and ignore them, not that they can hurt you). Now if you want to complain that you cant hit a ceptor orbiting you at 7km with your 425mm rails, comeone, spoiled brat!
Ethan Magnar	Posted - 2004.06.19 14:40:00 - [55] Devs please don't listen to a couple of whiners who think they are l33t and need to call everyone "nubs". The changes are for the best as new players will certainly find the game more attractive, along with the more casual gamer. Good job devs and keep crushing those bugs!
Luc Boye	Posted - 2004.06.19 14:40:00 - [56] If a battleship is FORCED to fit small/medium guns, how about giving ship bonus to those guns as well? -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Meau	Posted - 2004.06.19 14:47:00 - [57] Originally by: Luc Boye If a battleship is FORCED to fit small/medium guns, how about giving ship bonus to those guns as well? Nobody forces anyone to fit small/medium weapons. Even if youre not satisfied with your setup anti-frigate wise using large weapons, drones and missiles are still a charm. Originally by: Ethan Magnar Devs please don't listen to a couple of whiners who think they are l33t and need to call everyone "nubs". The changes are for the best as new players will certainly find the game more attractive, along with the more casual gamer. Good job devs and keep crushing those bugs! I dont think that it will affect newbs that much. It will mostly affect ppl that had it too easy so far outfitting their ships.
Skaz	Posted - 2004.06.19 15:08:00 - [58] I think the whining in here should be done with... How lazy are people that they loose ships, battleships, none the less to frigs and cruisers just because they didn't set up correctly? Ok we may be in space in the approx. 230th century but some laws of warfare never change do they? And since CCP doesn't have the ability to check out how space warfare is in reality, they look to the closest thing they have, old WW1/WW2 and modern wet navy tactics. Big things have a hard time hitting small fast moving objects. Missiles are very efficient weapons as are Torpedoes. And etc. I for one don't care a great deal how this is implemented but I learned very early in beta that EVE is constantly changing and thus you need to adapt! So experiment with setups, all big guns setups are a no no! you will always run into a smaller opponent that will run circles around you the BE PREPARED. Different weapons are built for different purpose big guns to maul big targets, small guns for smaller ones and etc. Missiles are for standoff combat and surprise and coup' de grace kills. I'm not even close to an expert in pvp but even I understand the need to adapt and experiment. This is a game not reality but it's still based on real life ideas of warfare. Authors write mostly about what they know don't they? rant/whine/whatever over "No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..."
BobGhengisKhan	Posted - 2004.06.19 15:15:00 - [59] Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 19/06/2004 15:16:52 Quote: I dont like the banning policy CCP has, they should permban Lord Zap WTF for, *****? The Gms acknowledged HE WAS NOT INVOLVED IN ANY EXPLOIT. Go ** yourself in the ass
Xavier Cardde	Posted - 2004.06.20 02:06:00 - [60] Originally by: Ethan Magnar Devs please don't listen to a couple of whiners who think they are l33t and need to call everyone "nubs". The changes are for the best as new players will certainly find the game more attractive, along with the more casual gamer. Good job devs and keep crushing those bugs! yes please dont listen to the fact we cant hit anything with even small guns now below optimal with th ebest tracking in the game... yes please listen to this guys pathetic comment and we can all move onto anothe MMOG when the game no longer works....

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