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Punaineefor Gaius
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Posted - 2008.09.30 13:03:00 -
[1]
How about adding a feature that if a 0.0 system gets to a particular population size, say over 500, Concord or the closest NPC Police faction (or pirate faction) automatically comes into the system to ôpatrolö and keep the peace... (Treating it like a high sec system with agro timer of 120 minutes, or sort of a system re-enforcement cycle) Once the timer runs, player count in the system is re-calculated, and if less then 500 concord goes home, if not, then timer starts for another 120 min. (no towers would be able to be anchored either, as this would be seen as a hostile act.)
I think that this could be one way to control the BLOB battles in 0.0 and at the same time keep large cap fights (but not too large) cap fights in place.
This enables the system to not have to be player restricted, and also gives assurances that if a BLOB fight starts, everyone loses, cause Concord will wipe them out.
Story line could be that Concord or other faction NPC navy has had enough of the growing powers of the 0.0 power blocks and has a vested interested in keeping 0.0 warfare from spilling into the controlled regions of empireà Something about the political power blocks of 0.0 space has become a viable threat to the unity of what ever low sec or high sec faction is close by, therefore for the first time, excursions into the 0.0 systems are authorized to keep the peaceà blah blah blah.
FLAME ON!
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.30 13:08:00 -
[2]
Far easier just to have a black hole open due to the sudden concentration of mass and all ships in the area instantly explode... I suspect this might cause problems 
Seriously, I don't think arbitrary limitations are the way to go. Better hardware (takes time) and mechanics that promote smaller groups (tough one) are probably going to be more effective and less.... irritating.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 13:11:00 -
[3]
Those ******ed blob-topics are getting more and more insane every week..
Just a little thought for you: If you want to combat large fleets, try to eliminate the reason why they form in the first place. Everything is just trying to hide the symptoms.
I get the feeling that it's time to change the rules for f&i into a more caod style regulation. No alt posters, no posters in npc corps, corp/alliance must be visible.
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 Originally by: CCP Prism X
In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.30 13:53:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 30/09/2008 14:01:53
Originally by: Batolemaeus
no posters in npc corps
Me feels left out. Me not contribute good? *snif*  |
Punaineefor Gaius
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Posted - 2008.09.30 14:52:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Punaineefor Gaius on 30/09/2008 14:53:43
Edited by: Punaineefor Gaius on 30/09/2008 14:53:24
This is a features and ideas thread, and that is what I posted.
It allows the freedom of large fleets to roam free and enage in 0.0, just states that if the fleets get too large, Empire is gonna notice, and therefore send in FACTION and or CONCORD to keep their interests in check. Only rarley do fleet fights get beyond the 500 players in system, so this feature would only be actived in extreme cases. And by adding a POS anchoring/unachoring ban during the agro timer will keep the others from taking advantage of NPC protection.
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Mattk50
Caldari
House Maadiah
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Posted - 2008.09.30 14:55:00 -
[6]
Sounds like a good idea to me. |
Batolemaeus
Caldari
Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 15:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Batolemaeus on 30/09/2008 15:49:38
Originally by: Punaineefor Gaius
I dont see a down side really.
Well i do.
Imagine these situations:
- System is camped by a lot of people, attacking force needs to get through this system and/or defend/attack pos there. How do you solve this with your suggestion? Should the attacker just say "oh snap, well, maybe tomorrow" and go elsewhere? Should the same work for the defender? Will a giant npc blob annihilate both fleets with a friendly message "lulz, nubs, highsec"?
- Pos are coming out of rf / Needs to be attacked / needs to be defended. It's a faction deathstar, and Caps can't be brought in easily. What will happen?
The POS and the NEED FOR NUMBERS are the problems you need to solve, not slap those who try to play the 0.0 game anyway and would love to have smaller fleets again.
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Me feels left out. Me not contribute good? *snif*
Join a corp you wimp 
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Originally by: CCP Prism X
In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Punaineefor Gaius
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Posted - 2008.09.30 16:50:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Punaineefor Gaius on 30/09/2008 16:53:40
It is a waiting/numbers game, as long as you dont shoot, you wont be harmed, POS's cant be refueled, or unachored, or anchored. During this time (I like the 3 hour agro time) So 300+ fleet FC cant do anything there but sit in the lag. He could either drop the amount of peeps in his gang and send them to new target to free up the agro after 3 hours, or try to keep his 300 man fleet together and wait. Same goes for defenders. At some point, one or the other will not be able to maintain the numbers. Perhaps after the 3 hour agro ends, another one would not be able to start for 30 min. giving the attacking team 30 min to unleash hell. If the numbers are still 500+ after 3.5 hours, the agro starts again.
So the attacking FC either cancels the op or chooses a new target. Defenders can either camp their system and keep the agro going, and watch the surrounding systems die, or leave to try to rescue them, either way, the assests on both sides are spread apart to cover multilple fronts. So if your 300 man fleet is attacking 3 separate systems, then the defenders will either have to lose them, or split their own force, which then opens up the original agro'd system to come out of agro, which by then can be openly attacked.
It is basically a logistics and Leadership nerf. The one who is better at logistics and leadership will win.
End of super blobs and welcome back to strategic game play.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 17:10:00 -
[9]
So you want to transform 0.0 warfare into a waiting mans game? Even more than it is now?
Now that i said it, do you too think that this is.. laughable? 
Honestly, the idea isn't good. It won't change the reasons why you need huge fleets, it just makes everything worse. Please, think of something less intruisive. |
Punaineefor Gaius
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Posted - 2008.09.30 17:47:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Punaineefor Gaius on 30/09/2008 17:51:27
Edited by: Punaineefor Gaius on 30/09/2008 17:49:36
Edited by: Punaineefor Gaius on 30/09/2008 17:48:27
If you are going to refute what I say, please give credible examples and reasons, rather than just saying it wont work.
Again, these are for SUPER BLOBS... BLOBS that can only be maintained by having multiple alliances in fleet. SUPER BLOBS crash nodes and remove game play. That is a critical issue for us paying customers. But current game mechanics promote the MORE IS BETTER tactic in fighting. This should only work to a point. After which, it is counter productive, and CCP should put in roadblocks to counter this type of game play.. this SUPER BLOB should have consequences. (lag is not a viable consequence). So how can one effectively manipulate a certain type of gameplay? You either make it more or less attractive to engage in it. I suggest making it less attractive to engage in SUPER Blob combat, not forbid it, but make it so that only the very skilled (leadership, logistics) can maintain it.
At this moment, I have only seen 1 or 2 SUPER BLOBS at any one time in game, anytime a system falls below the 500 system population, Concord goes away and it is back to 0.0. So in effect, maintaining the regular 200 v 200 blobs. or 100 v 100 blobs.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 18:07:00 -
[11]
You are trying to hammer on those large fleets, but yet you do not ask why those fleets actually form.
I'll tell you: Because they are needed. To take down a deathstar in a reasonable amount of time, you need a crapload of battleships. To defend against that crapload of battleships, you need a crapload of battleships. To kill those caps guarding the cynojammer you need two or three craploads of battleships. R.I.P. cluster.
Your proposal will just let 0.0 warfare come to a total standstill, with everyone but the most hardcore players leaving because they don't want a multiple-day mexican standoff covering multiple timezone just to break sov in a particular system..
Actually, your idea will just further emphasise bigger fleets, so cou can lock down entire constellations through multiple timezones..
If you don't see the fundamental flaws in your idea then i'm terribly sorry. But for the same reason titan's didn't kill large fleets, your idea won't kill them at all..it will make them mandatory.
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Originally by: CCP Prism X
In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Spurty
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 18:54:00 -
[12]
When CCP make it so I can kill a POS with a solo BS, pop a Capital sized ship with a single HAC and destroy a BS with 2 hits from my Rifter and you wont need blobs.
Until then, to get anything done, you need the firepower :-/
Man goes to the doc, with a strawberry growing out of his head. Doc says "I'll give you some cream to put on it." |
Punaineefor Gaius
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Posted - 2008.09.30 18:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Batolemaeus
a multiple-day mexican standoff covering multiple timezone just to break sov in a particular system..
This is what is happening today. Do you not see.
Those MASSIVE fleets form because that is the only tactic that is easily deployable to gain certain victory.
Also, define reasonable amount of time? 5 min, 20 min, 1 hour? Please define?
I understand what you are trying to say, you want the BLOB to create a end game scenerio for the opponent. EVE is not supposed to be an end game. You must work for your wins. Death Stars can be taken down with a 150 man fleet easily. Defending it with 150 man fleet should be adequate. Are you saying that a 100 man cap fleet is not enough to take down a death star?
Again, this ends the SUPER BLOB. If you think you can't be effective with a 150 CAP fleet, then you are very poor strategist my friend.
Take NASCAR, there are racing rules to keep the speed of the car under a certain MAX point. If not, then people crash and die, and the sport dies too. If there were no rules in place, by human nature, the racers would want to go faster and faster and faster. But with the racing rules in place, racing teams are forced to think of other ways to be victorious, like fuel consumption, tire wear, engine reliability. All these factors make for a better sport for the participants and for the spectators...*NASCAR is concidered a sport.. what ever...
So I see what you are saying... Brute force should rule in EVE, which is basically who every brings the most guns wins.
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Punaineefor Gaius
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Posted - 2008.09.30 19:23:00 -
[14]
Case in point.. If my system was in place, this sad experience would not taken place...
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=885925
If my suggestion was in place. The fight would have either taken place over multiple systems, or they would have stood down do to CONCORD presence...
Everyone would have had a better experience.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 20:01:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Batolemaeus on 30/09/2008 20:01:22
Originally by: Punaineefor Gaius
So I see what you are saying... Brute force should rule in EVE, which is basically who every brings the most guns wins.
I see that you are horribly failing at reading comprehension.
This man, obviously a 0.0 inhabitant, already said it:
Originally by: Spurty
Until then, to get anything done, you need the firepower :-/
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Originally by: CCP Prism X
In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Atropos Kahn
Caldari
Solarflare Heavy Industries
Pure.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 20:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Atropos Kahn on 30/09/2008 20:38:12
This a mute topic now.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. |
Re'taka
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.09.30 22:40:00 -
[17]
Allow those fleets to kill concord and faction and we have a deal, but tbh, this would make 0.0 wars unplayable, as most defenders will just say, hey stay loged on at the pos so our enemys cant attack, even past that, ill not say you have no 0.0 experience, but if you do then you know its not possible to take a system with the limits your setting down, with your system, a single titain, and 200 friendly ships will be 300 enemys every time, defending a pos.
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.30 23:44:00 -
[18]
Hey guys I have an idea.
Lets solve lag by filling a system with even more ships, especially of the NPC variety.
--
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Punaineefor Gaius
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Posted - 2008.09.30 23:57:00 -
[19]
What you dont understand is that you would have to fill the system with 500 before the NPC option would take effect, and keep them there 24/7 for protection. How often does that happen in 0.0? Never...
So unless a super Alliance can keep 500 people in every system that they own 24/7 then yes... This will never take effect.
The idea is that this would never have to be used, except where LAG will be a given and game play unplayable. a 300 man gang with a titan will not trigger the npc option. This will keep the SUPER BLOBS from camping each other, and open up other opertunities to fight in an ajacient system.
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abrasive soap
HOMELESS.
Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.01 01:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Punaineefor Gaius
What you dont understand is that you would have to fill the system with 500 before the NPC option would take effect, and keep them there 24/7 for protection. How often does that happen in 0.0? Never...
So unless a super Alliance can keep 500 people in every system that they own 24/7 then yes... This will never take effect.
The idea is that this would never have to be used, except where LAG will be a given and game play unplayable. a 300 man gang with a titan will not trigger the npc option. This will keep the SUPER BLOBS from camping each other, and open up other opertunities to fight in an ajacient system.
so basically you're saying lets play roulette with players and the losers get their ship concorded. also to make your idea work you would need to pod those players as well. sounds like fun. i'll lol when concord decides a titan is not welcome in a system.
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Trader Altperson
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Posted - 2008.10.01 01:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Punaineefor Gaius
NPC Police faction (or pirate faction) automatically comes into the system to ôpatrolö and keep the peace...
A pirate faction keping peace... fasinating
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Kandik Orwell
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Posted - 2008.10.01 12:36:00 -
[22]
The original poster has a point. Lag makes the game unfair and unplayable. Let's avoid lag.
I'm not sure how CCP clusters work, but when a concentration of ships in a system reaches a limit of say 600 ships, could they not divert their less active server clusters to share the extra load?
Nerfing epic fleet battles defeats the purpose of even having a space based MMO.
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