EVE Search - People's whiplash to Tech 2 BPOs

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

People's whiplash to Tech 2 BPOs

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:26:00 - [1] I don't get it. I read threads and watch people's attitudes on the forums (the forums) and many people hate the fact that tech 2 BPOs exist. Some say "destroy them all!", while others are like "Remove them and give copies to the owners!" or something. Others are opposed to this, but I generally don't get the idea behind the rage that they should be gone. They are relics from a time now passed. Such as Guardian-Vexors, Magnates, Snowballs, or even the Apotheosis. They are no longer created, yet last in the game. My personal feelings would be to keep them as is, simply because they are just that -- usable items that any person should keep ahold of. So it comes back to this problem with people having this bitter resentment towards T2 BPOs... but what about to their holders? Is that what this is really about? Are people merely jealous that somebody has a way to make more isk than them? Is this all that is about? Because if that's the case, welcome to MMO gaming :\ www.siigarikitawa.com
Jana Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:28:00 - [2] I think it generally comes from the inventors feeling that they are at disavantage. (-4 ME versus +ve) However, they don't seem to realise that the supply coming in from invention is so ridiculously large compared to supply from T2 BPOs, that it is really the inventors that set the price on the market. (in theory, a T2 BPO holder could undercut an inventor if he wanted, but with all those inventors around, one would just buy the stuff and put it back on market at a higher price) Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:29:00 - [3] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Is that what this is really about? Are people merely jealous that somebody has a way to make more isk than them? Is this all that is about? Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Is that what this is really about? Are people merely jealous that somebody has a way to make more isk than them? Is this all that is about? Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Is that what this is really about? Are people merely jealous that somebody has a way to make more isk than them? Is this all that is about? ...
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:32:00 - [4] Originally by: Jana Clant I think it generally comes from the inventors feeling that they are at disavantage. (-4 ME versus +ve) However, they don't seem to realise that the supply coming in from invention is so ridiculously large compared to supply from T2 BPOs, that it is really the inventors that set the price on the market. (in theory, a T2 BPO holder could undercut an inventor if he wanted, but with all those inventors around, one would just buy the stuff and put it back on market at a higher price) Let them die off one by one? :\ If invention is so great then how does someone else having a Tech 2 BPO concern you? www.siigarikitawa.com
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:35:00 - [5] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 04/10/2008 22:36:36 With my damnation BPO I make a whopping 5 million per damnation. OMGODKILLT2BPOS Without T2 BPOs I guarantee the prices for damn near everything would go up and consumers would hate it.
Jana Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Originally by: Jana Clant I think it generally comes from the inventors feeling that they are at disavantage. (-4 ME versus +ve) However, they don't seem to realise that the supply coming in from invention is so ridiculously large compared to supply from T2 BPOs, that it is really the inventors that set the price on the market. (in theory, a T2 BPO holder could undercut an inventor if he wanted, but with all those inventors around, one would just buy the stuff and put it back on market at a higher price) Let them die off one by one? :\ If invention is so great then how does someone else having a Tech 2 BPO concern you? I'm not sure exactly why you brought that up. The comment was in reference to not renewing T2 BPOs that get removed from the game, because after all there is no point with invention now. I didn't say that the T2 BPOs that exist nowadays and are being used need to be removed. Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:44:00 - [7] Originally by: Gamer4liff Without T2 BPOs I guarantee the prices for damn near everything would go up and consumers would hate it. You are wrong. People would still lower their prices to sell faster, having a BPO in the middle of the Inventors will not change that fact...
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:46:00 - [8] Originally by: CrayC Originally by: Gamer4liff Without T2 BPOs I guarantee the prices for damn near everything would go up and consumers would hate it. You are wrong. People would still lower their prices to sell faster, having a BPO in the middle of the Inventors will not change that fact... Bullcrap. I've run the numbers on every T2 BPO I own, with T2 component prices the way they are now the ONLY DAMN WAY to make a profit with certain items, like damnations, would be to sell them at about 20-30 million more than the current price, which is made by T2 BPOs. Invention has a higher base cost.
Jana Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:48:00 - [9] Edited by: Jana Clant on 04/10/2008 22:49:57 Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 04/10/2008 22:47:34 Originally by: CrayC Originally by: Gamer4liff Without T2 BPOs I guarantee the prices for damn near everything would go up and consumers would hate it. You are wrong. People would still lower their prices to sell faster, having a BPO in the middle of the Inventors will not change that fact... Bullcrap. I've run the numbers on every T2 BPO I own, with T2 component prices the way they are now the ONLY DAMN WAY to make a profit with certain items, like damnations, would be to sell them at about 20-30 million more than the current price, which is currently held down by T2 BPOs. Invention has a higher base cost. You underestimate the hordes of silly inventors with the "I got these datacores from my R&D agent, so they are free!" mindset. EDIT: And the problem is that they never realize they're actually losing ISK until they try selling the datacores on the market. Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:51:00 - [10] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 04/10/2008 22:50:57 Quote: You overestimate the hordes of silly inventors with the "I got these datacores from my R&D agent, so they are free!" mindset. EDIT: And the problem is that they never realize they're actually losing ISK until they try selling the datacores on the market. Don't you mean underestimate? Even still I'd like to hope most people aren't lobotomized enough to think that selling something regardless of the 20m you spend in datacores is a good idea. Edit: hah, caught your edit.

Jana Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Gamer4liff Edit: hah, caught your edit. Damn it! trains Ninja Editing to level 2 Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.04 22:56:00 - [12] Originally by: Gamer4liff Even still I'd like to hope most people aren't lobotomized enough to think that selling something regardless of the 20m you spend in datacores is a good idea. Unfortunatly, that is the exact reason why saying that a BPO helps keep the price low. I am one of those people that love my totally free datacores, which, if I actually built anything T2, would help me keep my prices down. But since I am not building T2, I of course sell them on the market. Free isk, gotta love that
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.10.04 23:00:00 - [13] Originally by: CrayC Edited by: CrayC on 04/10/2008 22:56:12 Originally by: Gamer4liff Even still I'd like to hope most people aren't lobotomized enough to think that selling something regardless of the 20m you spend in datacores is a good idea. Unfortunatly, that is the exact reason why saying that a BPO helps keep the price low is wrong. I am one of those people that love my totally free datacores, which, if I actually built anything T2, would help me keep my prices down. But since I am not building T2, I of course sell them on the market. Free isk, gotta love that Congrats, you're part of the problem.
Banana Torres Look Ma I did a Test	Posted - 2008.10.04 23:00:00 - [14] It is the feeling that there is not a level playing and that some player have an advantage that cannot be overcome that annoys people. I dunno if that feeling is justified, but looking at the figures they would seem to have a case. A builder who uses the invention process to get BPCs does seem to have greater costs, that he can in no way mitigate, in comparison to a holder of a BPO. Maybe this is intended, but it does smell a bit fishy to me. And I suppose if you are a new player it must smell especially so.
ZW Dewitt	Posted - 2008.10.04 23:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Gamer4liff Bullcrap. I've run the numbers on every T2 BPO I own, with T2 component prices the way they are now the ONLY DAMN WAY to make a profit with invention on certain items, like Damnations, would be to sell them at about 20-30 million more than the current price, which is currently held down by T2 BPOs. Invention has a higher base cost. Pre-Invention whine: T2 BPO owners are a cartel! They are selling at unnaturally high prices! Something must be done. Post-Invention whine: T2 BPO owners are a cartel! They are selling at unnaturally low prices! Something must be done.
Jana Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.10.04 23:03:00 - [16] Originally by: Banana Torres It is the feeling that there is not a level playing and that some player have an advantage that cannot be overcome that annoys people. I dunno if that feeling is justified, but looking at the figures they would seem to have a case. A builder who uses the invention process to get BPCs does seem to have greater costs, that he can in no way mitigate, in comparison to a holder of a BPO. Maybe this is intended, but it does smell a bit fishy to me. And I suppose if you are a new player it must smell especially so. While this is in fact true (a T2 BPO holder will always produce items cheaper), there isn't an easy solution around it. If you remove/nerf BPOs, then it's the BPO holders who will feel at disadvantage, as after all they did obtain the BPOs through legitimate means, whether that be the lottery or buying from another player. cough except for the T20 incident cough Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.10.04 23:04:00 - [17] Quote: Pre-Invention whine: T2 BPO owners are a cartel! They are selling at unnaturally high prices! Something must be done. Post-Invention whine: T2 BPO owners are a cartel! They are selling at unnaturally low prices! Something must be done. This is perfect.
Jana Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.10.04 23:06:00 - [18] Edited by: Jana Clant on 04/10/2008 23:08:18 Originally by: ZW Dewitt Originally by: Gamer4liff Bullcrap. I've run the numbers on every T2 BPO I own, with T2 component prices the way they are now the ONLY DAMN WAY to make a profit with invention on certain items, like Damnations, would be to sell them at about 20-30 million more than the current price, which is currently held down by T2 BPOs. Invention has a higher base cost. Pre-Invention whine: T2 BPO owners are a cartel! They are selling at unnaturally high prices! Something must be done. Post-Invention whine: T2 BPO owners are a cartel! They are selling at unnaturally low prices! Something must be done. Interesting perspective. Though you must realize, the pre-invention whine came from the end consumers, the post-invention whine comes from producers. And they happen to have opposing agendas. (one wants to buy stuff as cheap as possible, and the other wants to maximize profit) Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.04 23:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Gamer4liff Congrats, you're part of the problem. No, I am not. If I built anything T2, then yes, I would be part of your problem. But even when it comes to T1 stuff, there are people who thinks that the minerals they mined or recycled from loot is free. So they don't care about selling lower than actual buildcost, going by what you would have paid to buy the minerals on the market, since they conjured up the minerals out of thin air, instead of spending money on buying them. So it really doesn't matter if there's a BPO present or not, there are always stupid people that will sell at a lower price, simply to make money faster. They are the problem...
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.04 23:12:00 - [20] Originally by: Jana Clant Edited by: Jana Clant on 04/10/2008 23:08:18 Originally by: ZW Dewitt Originally by: Gamer4liff Bullcrap. I've run the numbers on every T2 BPO I own, with T2 component prices the way they are now the ONLY DAMN WAY to make a profit with invention on certain items, like Damnations, would be to sell them at about 20-30 million more than the current price, which is currently held down by T2 BPOs. Invention has a higher base cost. Pre-Invention whine: T2 BPO owners are a cartel! They are selling at unnaturally high prices! Something must be done. Post-Invention whine: T2 BPO owners are a cartel! They are selling at unnaturally low prices! Something must be done. Interesting perspective. Though you must realize, the pre-invention whine came from the end consumers, the post-invention whine comes from producers. And they happen to have opposing agendas. (one wants to buy stuff as cheap as possible, and the other wants to maximize profit) Speaking as a pure T2 consumer, I'm pretty happy with the current situation.

Jana Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.10.04 23:16:00 - [21] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jana Clant Interesting perspective. Though you must realize, the pre-invention whine came from the end consumers, the post-invention whine comes from producers. And they happen to have opposing agendas. (one wants to buy stuff as cheap as possible, and the other wants to maximize profit) Speaking as a pure T2 consumer, I'm pretty happy with the current situation. Of course, I expected nothing else from an end consumer. Unless you wanted even cheaper stuff. Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.04 23:20:00 - [22] Edited by: Malcanis on 04/10/2008 23:20:23 Originally by: Jana Clant Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jana Clant Interesting perspective. Though you must realize, the pre-invention whine came from the end consumers, the post-invention whine comes from producers. And they happen to have opposing agendas. (one wants to buy stuff as cheap as possible, and the other wants to maximize profit) Speaking as a pure T2 consumer, I'm pretty happy with the current situation. Of course, I expected nothing else from an end consumer. Unless you wanted even cheaper stuff. Well no actually, if it was any cheaper it wouldn't be worth picking up as loot.
Jana Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.10.04 23:25:00 - [23] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jana Clant Of course, I expected nothing else from an end consumer. Unless you wanted even cheaper stuff. Well no actually, if it was any cheaper it wouldn't be worth picking up as loot. Interesting. Though I guess that has more to do with your kill:death ratio than T2 prices themselves. (with a high K:D you'd want more expensive T2 due to the loot you get, and with a low K:D you'd want cheap T2 to mitigate the cost of replacing ships) Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
Ice Baby Caldari Ice Cream Express	Posted - 2008.10.05 01:49:00 - [24] the problem is that t2 and invention is wrongly scaled. I mean, given the resourses used in invention it should yield a better bpc than the current t2 bpos, and not the other way around like it is now. ------------------------------ Adding bounty will not make it easier to kill me.
Irulan S'Dijana Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.10.05 02:05:00 - [25] Personally a good T2 BPO is something to aim for. Kinda like an end-game for a manufacturer. Some people have Titans, other have Hulks, I have my goal of a good T2 BPO.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.10.05 02:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Ice Baby the problem is that t2 and invention is wrongly scaled. I mean, given the resourses used in invention it should yield a better bpc than the current t2 bpos, and not the other way around like it is now. Only, people that have Tech 2 BPOs have researched their blueprints to peak efficiency. There is no "better". Copies are not a substitute for an original. What's better, the cake your Mom bakes or the one that she hands down to you and you make? www.siigarikitawa.com
Korizan	Posted - 2008.10.05 02:19:00 - [27] Actually it is not the BPO's that are the problem. I will admit a T2 BPO holder can undercut a invention builder. BUT THere are NOT enough T2 BPO builders out there to keep up with demand. Has everyone forgot the waiting lists and just searching for certain T2 ships ? The prices were high because they held the monopoly. Now comes invention. T2 floods the market and prices go through the floor. T2 now has as much competition as T1 and look @ the profit margins in T1 items. THe T2 BPO holders production amounts did NOT go up they can't produce any more then they could before so were are all the items coming from ? Invention. And as far as the T2 BPO holders ? Well I can't see them being happy about all there profits going down either. THere really is no mystery here , simple supply and demand. And right now T2 items are now just like T1 items they are exceeding demands and prices have dropped.
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.10.05 02:21:00 - [28] Siigari Kitawa, that was a ridiculous comparison. Ships, however rare, are useless if kept in a hangar and killable when undocked. And all of the unique ones in EVE don't even compare to T2, thus offering no advantage. The inert items like shards and snowballs do nothing and affect nothing. None of that stuff affects EVE in any way beyond giving people something to talk about. T2 BPOs on the other hand have greater efficiency, allowing their owners to undercut player production and affect the entire economic system. Oveur himself stated the BPOs would be turned into max run BPCs a few months after the economy adjusted. This isn't about jealousy, resentment or profits - CCP went through the trouble of introducing new gameplay because the old one wasn't working. Invention is a replacement for T2 BPOs, and anybody who argues this is a bold faced liar. But in the final hour they wussed out to satisfy both groups. And they can get away with it because the net amount of whining is less than either feeling utterly screwed. So all we got in the end was an absurd system being made slightly less absurd. Or it could be that when anything drops to "broken, but not utterly" its no longer a priority.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.10.05 02:37:00 - [29] Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 05/10/2008 02:40:00 Originally by: DigitalCommunist Siigari Kitawa, that was a ridiculous comparison. Ships, however rare, are useless if kept in a hangar and killable when undocked. I was referring to the quality of the prints that come out of invention, how they are negative ME'd and what not. Originally by: DigitalCommunist This isn't about jealousy, resentment or profits - CCP went through the trouble of introducing new gameplay because the old one wasn't working. Invention is a replacement for T2 BPOs, and anybody who argues this is a bold faced liar. I'm not arguing that it is a replacement. It has indeed replaced Tech 2 BPOs as the only attainable method of acquiring a tech 2 print, unless Tech 2 BPO holders make copies. They now simply co-exist. A tech 2 BPO holder makes isk as a PRODUCER of the item. A tech 2 BPC INVENTOR makes isk off either the prints themselves, or produces the item and has to compete with people who have better researched prints. There is money in both markets. www.siigarikitawa.com
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.10.05 03:59:00 - [30] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Oveur himself stated the BPOs would be turned into max run BPCs a few months after the economy adjusted. No, he didn't. Did he ? Link. AFAIK, he said something to the extent of "we're considering the possibility of turning T2 BPOs into huge-run copies, if it is deemed necessary after the effects of introducing invention are clear". Quote: This isn't about jealousy, resentment or profits - CCP went through the trouble of introducing new gameplay because the old one wasn't working. Invention is a replacement for T2 BPOs, and anybody who argues this is a bold faced liar. No, they went through the trouble of introducing invention because availability of T2 items was severely limited and people had no PvP-esque way of getting a hold of one specific type of T2 item if the "enemy" had a monopoly over all BPOs (unlikely, but still). Anybody who argues that invention was MEANT as a REPLACEMENT for T2 BPOs (as opposed to a complement to) is obviously unable to think straigth. Invention was conceived as a band-aid that would allow T2 items to be manufactured at heavily increased cost without access to a T2 BPO, to break the "monopoly" of T2 BPO holders. Keyword "heavily". If Invention would have been intended as a replacement for T2 BPOs, all they would have needed to do would have been to set ME/PE of the invented BPC at same levels as on the input T1 BPC (and a slight change to decryptors so that only number of runs and chance to invent would be different would have also helped). Even now, removal of T2 BPOs is a needless action - all you really need to do is give a chance to T2 BPCs to have high ME/PE themselves, maybe even boost number of obtained runs a bit... and T2 BPOs become next to pointless to own (remaining price almost only from rarity of item, not any actual value). _ Alternate resist display \|\| Mission reward revamp \|\| better nanofix



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.