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Nikita Alterana
Gallente
The Antikythera Mechanism
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Posted - 2008.10.05 15:45:00 -
[1]
T2 battleships have enormous potential in PvP, but even the Black Ops battleship is completely useless in PvP.
Why?
Cost. It all comes down to cost.
When you shell out 90 mil for a Vagabond, you get it knowing your getting something worth the cost. You know it has a survivability and deadliness that makes it worth the investment into it. This can be said of any HAC, recon, or command ship, but the T2 battleships? Their price is over the top for what they do.
Basically, anyone who can afford them will be in something better. They simply aren't worth the 500 mil investment.
Because if you think about it, the difference between a HAC and a cruiser is VERY big, its a completely different ship. This isn't true of the T2 battleships. To put it bluntly, regardless of how powerful they are, they are still just a battleship. And for their cost you could be several just as powerful, more survivable HACS.
Lets take the Paladin for instance. I would DEFINITELY use this as a pvp ship if its cost wasn't so crazy, with that kind of money, your well on your way to a cap ship. But being able to do full damage with 4 guns, I could fit nos and nuets in those extra highslots, I could fit for remote repping, or for smartbombing.
but its so stupidly expensive it really isn't worth the cost, because, as awesome as it would be to be able to use a ship like that, its still just a battleship, it lacks the survivability of a hac, and with damage not much greater then that of a standard battleship, its just not worth it.
so what am I asking?
well CCP has 2 options
1. Reduce the cost of T2 battleships to 200-400 million isk.
2. Buff them to make them worth the current cost.
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.05 15:48:00 -
[2]
One could bring in some kind of semi-insurance so that the loss is only equivelant to say 2 BS's?
That wld sound balanced imo..
Awesome EVE history
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Zeerover
Caldari
DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2008.10.05 16:48:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Zeerover on 05/10/2008 16:49:59
Had a thread in the assembly hall asking for a buff on the Marauders Powergrid. With enough powergrid to really use the utility high-slots for heavy neutralizers and smartbombs they would become formidable low-sec/null-sec ships.
Alas people didn't like it, and so the whole ship class that has this flavor text "Geared toward versatility and prolonged deployment in hostile environments" is stuck preforming high-sec missions...
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.10.05 17:51:00 -
[4]
1. How are you using the Black opt ships? Are you using say the Sin for stealth strikes against your enemy corporations at key moments are you using it as a hack saw when a scalpel is needed for the job?
2. ItĘs a T2 battleship that was released earlier this year, of course the price is going to be huge. Look at the price history of HulkĘs. They used to be 500 million, now there what, 1-200 million? If you donĘt like the price either A. Get a sponsor corporation who will give you one. B. Build your own. C. Shut up and deal with it by getting more isk.
3. The price of anything in this game is driven by the cost set by the players. IE a 500 million isk ship is 500 million isk because the player set it at that.
Finally, if your using a Marauder for pvp you earned what you got coming to you.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Nnamuachs
Caldari
Kiith Paktu
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.10.06 00:30:00 -
[5]
Or they have a third option, leave them as they are... i dont personally pvp in a marauder (yet) but i know people who do and they work extremely well according to those people, considering they can push out a tank far superior to a T1 battleship.
Additionally, i find that my widow is "WAY" more effective in pvp than my scorpion ever was, with the battleship bonuses to ROF and flight time and the Blackops bonuses to ECM strength and cloaked velocity i can solo with it far more easily than i can the scorpion. So this is all really a matter of perspective.
Though imo all the other blackops suck by comparison.
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.10.06 02:23:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Strill on 06/10/2008 02:26:49
 Originally by: Jacob Mei
1. How are you using the Black opt ships? Are you using say the Sin for stealth strikes against your enemy corporations at key moments are you using it as a hack saw when a scalpel is needed for the job?
What in the world are you talking about? There's no such thing as "stealth strikes at key moments". What possible situation could this apply to?
Quote:
2. ItĘs a T2 battleship that was released earlier this year, of course the price is going to be huge. Look at the price history of HulkĘs. They used to be 500 million, now there what, 1-200 million? If you donĘt like the price either A. Get a sponsor corporation who will give you one. B. Build your own. C. Shut up and deal with it by getting more isk.
So then the question is, is the high cost due to the actual building and inventing costs or is it just because it's new? That shouldn't be too hard to find out.
And ya I agree with the OP. Unless you have a few hundred billion isk just lying around the marauders are just too impractical.
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.10.06 20:33:00 -
[7]
Marauders/BO are fine, theyre not supposed to be uber win-buttons that let anyone who has 500mil to blow utterly school anyone who doesnt (and is thus flying around in a regular BS). Theyre like recons, slightly better stats and very good bonuses for doing what they were designed to do.
If anything HAC/CS should get tweaked down a little bit so the difference is not so extreme. Of course the build costs should go down proportionally to compensate.
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[IMAGE REMOVED]
-- aka Cpt Bogus --
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Freezehunter
Gallente
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.06 20:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Look at the price history of HulkĘs. They used to be 500 million, now there what, 1-200 million?
Already less than 80 mils...
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.10.06 20:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Strill
So then the question is, is the high cost due to the actual building and inventing costs or is it just because it's new? That shouldn't be too hard to find out.
Build cost, like most T2 stuff. Invention ensures that things wont stay overpriced very long, i.e. hulks were 500mil cause there were only a couple of BPOs and they could be sold for whatever cost. Not so anymore. But comparatively, a Marauder is much less expensive compared to a regular BS than a HAC is over a cruiser.
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[IMAGE REMOVED]
-- aka Cpt Bogus --
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Tac Ginaz
The Righteous Few
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Posted - 2008.10.07 17:05:00 -
[10]
The problem is found in all T2 ships. Cost is ******edly high. So high that only those who have insane amounts of isk can afford to pvp or pve in them.
And to make things worse & sadder still, it is these same mega-isk makers that dominate the t2 building and selling.
Considering how overpowering t2 ships are to T1's , the T2 cost and performance literally build a berlin wall between the playerbase.
A team of 8 players in T1 ships are in serious trouble meeting a pair of players with = skillpoints that fly T2 ships.
That alone tells you how imbalanced this whole T2 bullkrap is.
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