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[ISSUE] Caldari ships and weapons

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Cavalera Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.07 15:56:00 - [1] More and more alliances are requiring its pilots to no longer use missile boats for combat. All of the missile based ships are almost worthless in fleet fights because it takes too long to reach targets and either the target is already dead or warped off before the missiles hit. Half of the caldari ships are worthless because of this as we are told fly a gun based ship or ewar. Give Caldari more gun based ships or fix the missile issue.
Cavalera Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.07 15:56:00 - [2] More and more alliances are requiring its pilots to no longer use missile boats for combat. All of the missile based ships are almost worthless in fleet fights because it takes too long to reach targets and either the target is already dead or warped off before the missiles hit. Half of the caldari ships are worthless because of this as we are told fly a gun based ship or ewar. Give Caldari more gun based ships or fix the missile issue.
Cavalera Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.08 16:04:00 - [3] Originally by: Pithecanthropus support... double all missile speed and explosion velocity. DONE Exactly! I believe that the missile speeds are way too slow, other ships are insta damage like they should. As far as the "Well missiles don't miss or missiles do more damage", missiles do not miss but that is assuming other ships haven't popped it or it hasn't flown away since you launched them. The damage is not a factor if the targets are moving since takes almost nothing to go faster than the explosion velocity. At long distances turret ships do not suffer the tracking problems like they would close up. They fire and hit, Caldari fire a missile and wait.. and wait.. and wait. It is not uncommon for me to have 2-3 salvos of missiles in flight before first missile hits and that is if the missile speed is 8km a sec. Most the time the missiles have no target by the time they get there. I know Caldari have turret ships but how would other races like to have half of their ships removed because of an issue like this.
Cavalera Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.08 16:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 07/10/2008 21:42:39 If you're in a raven, just shoot the secondary. This is difficult? EDIT: Or nail the hostile falcons. Hard to argue with a 3000-point pure EM damage alphastrike vs falcons. Only problem is that FC's often want everyone on the primary. We use to target secondary targets but it has gotten to the point where everyone wants insta alpha strike damage. That is what wins a fight right now which means no missile boats unless you are standing on top of the target.
Cavalera Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.08 16:14:00 - [5] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 07/10/2008 21:42:39 If you're in a raven, just shoot the secondary. This is difficult? EDIT: Or nail the hostile falcons. Hard to argue with a 3000-point pure EM damage alphastrike vs falcons. I rarely fly ravens, despite them being quite good anti-support, as all too often I'm flying Falcon/Onyx/Rokh/Eagle instead. yeah well I was referencing missiles. The only boost Caldari missile ships could even think of asking for right now are missile velocity/explosion velocity scripts for tracking computers. Pic wants to double missile velocity? LOL... 20Km/s cruise missiles? What is wrong with that? Do some math, how long does it take a current missile to get 150kms at 8.5km a second.. 17.6 seconds. So how many targets last 18 seconds unless there is a spider tank going? You could only get 20Km/s if you put 2-3 rigs on your missile boat if the speed was doubled.
Cavalera Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.08 17:50:00 - [6] Edited by: Cavalera on 08/10/2008 17:51:25 Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky missles are getting nurfed with the nano nurf - not buffed. You are asking for the wrong thing at the worst time. Missles are an ok wepon system - but in fleet, instant damage is key - any missle lag, no matter how slight, is a disadvantage in fleet - the solution is to train for the Rokh or train another races battleship (I would recommend Amarr). Missle lag is here to stay, missles are not gonna get faster (they are gonna get slower) so you best be planning for that. See... if your Caldari which are known for missile ships you need to train for another races ship or use a non missile caldari ship. So like I said half of the caldari fleet is worthless unless your POS shooting or unless a Capital ship is tackled. The point of removing a ship from fighting is just that, blowing it up, just because it warps off does not mean its out of the fight. People can flame all they like, what if someone told the other races that turret guns are no longer effective and they need to train caladri missile ships how would you like that? Why have the race that is know for its missile ships only to make it so everyone needs to use guns. That defeats the purpose of having that race.
Cavalera Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.08 17:54:00 - [7] Edited by: Cavalera on 08/10/2008 17:55:27 Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 08/10/2008 17:35:48 This is a stupid thread. Caldari has a very competent line-up of railboats, and missiles are excellent - whether as close-range gank weapons, or as long-range fleet antisupport tools. And if your target warps from the field? Well, the entire point of shooting a ship is to remove it from the field. As long as you don't attempt to shoot the fleet snipers' primaries, you'll be fine. Next time read before you post.. FC's are telling people in fleet for everyone to shoot the primary and many are now saying if your in a missile ship thanks but no thanks. Like I said, either give the caldari more turret based ships or fix missiles since 1/2 of the ships now have little to no worth.
Cavalera Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.08 18:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Farrqua So let me get this straight. You are asking for a change because some FC's in "YOUR" alliance is telling you to bring something else. And you are having heart burn about it because you are a special snowflake? Not just my alliance, every FC from every alliance I have been in a fleet with.
Cavalera Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.08 21:46:00 - [9] Originally by: Farrqua Edited by: Farrqua on 08/10/2008 20:40:51 Originally by: Cavalera Not just my alliance, every FC from every alliance I have been in a fleet with. So what. FC's have to work with the current lag prone environment we have to operate in. No amount of doubling, tripling the speed of missiles will make that much of a difference. It still has the effect of not getting there when it should on the primaries. It is what it is. With missiles you have consistent damage, always hit, no tracking issues, fire and forget, no fall off, no adjusting trajectory. Hits from 0 to max range. Optional damage types, requires flight time to get to target. With guns it hits immediately, tracking issues, variable damage, fall-off, hits are chance based, have to pay attention to trajectory, distance and so on. Hybrids have no optional damage types, need to change ammo to increase range or increase damage. Amaar has no reloading, variable ammo. Minmi has low dps but high alpha. So there is your trade off. E: Plus the Rohk is one of the best Snipers in the game. Sounds like someone forgot about explosion velocity take away from damage or explosion radius. The effect is even larger against faster ships in a fleet fight. It doesn't take much to negate the damage of a missile. Yes the rokh is a decent ship but the cost is sky high.

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