| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
   |
Posted - 2008.10.08 21:58:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: sdthujfg
Ok get this straight pal. A blaster mega shooting at another BS that has 100m/s (wich is a realistic BS speed at close ranges without AB nor MWD running and UNWEBBED) transversal has over 95% hit chance at 6km range. Yes you will get in trouble if he has AB fitted, but then he will be giving up speed while going through bubbles or gaining range. Why are you making up stuff that is completly untrue? I suggest you go read the tracking guide and put some numbers in there so you dont look like a fool.
There's a thread about blasters in the game dev forums. I believe it's on the front page and it's about 11 pages long.
Go read. Learn. Apologize. :)
-Liang
--
|
abrasive soap
HOMELESS.
Elitist Cowards
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 01:37:00 -
[32]
Edited by: abrasive soap on 09/10/2008 01:37:15
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: sdthujfg
Ok get this straight pal. A blaster mega shooting at another BS that has 100m/s (wich is a realistic BS speed at close ranges without AB nor MWD running and UNWEBBED) transversal has over 95% hit chance at 6km range. Yes you will get in trouble if he has AB fitted, but then he will be giving up speed while going through bubbles or gaining range. Why are you making up stuff that is completly untrue? I suggest you go read the tracking guide and put some numbers in there so you dont look like a fool.
There's a thread about blasters in the game dev forums. I believe it's on the front page and it's about 11 pages long.
Go read. Learn. Apologize. :)
-Liang
i propose post nerf:
blasters should be given increased optimal, autocannons should be given decreased optimal and a bit of falloff to make up for it along with a huge damage boost, artillery should be given either a damage boost or increased alpha decreased rof, and lasers should stay the same. i guess missiles could be given a maximum angular velocity as a balance (i'm not exactly sure how missile tracking works other than sig radius, velocity, and explosion velocity, but there was a non-public skill concerning angular velocity of missiles.)
this would certainly diversify the different systems and make things interesting
|
Volt Taar
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 15:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: abrasive soap
i propose post nerf:
blasters should be given increased optimal, autocannons should be given decreased optimal and a bit of falloff to make up for it along with a huge damage boost, artillery should be given either a damage boost or increased alpha decreased rof, and lasers should stay the same. i guess missiles could be given a maximum angular velocity as a balance (i'm not exactly sure how missile tracking works other than sig radius, velocity, and explosion velocity, but there was a non-public skill concerning angular velocity of missiles.)
this would certainly diversify the different systems and make things interesting
Decreased optimal and falloff to Autocannons?
Man, do you realise that AC's already have close to none optimal range?
With 5 lvl skills AC's have:
Barrage S = 1,5km optimal + 7,5km falloff.
Barrage M = 3km optimal + 15km falloff.
Barrage L = 6km optimal + 30 km falloff.
Cut the optimal in half for EMP numbers...
I can't even imagine the numbers for that "huge damage boost" you are talking about, that will balance your range nerf proposal.
And guys, do you remember that nice tracking bonus on the Megathron?
Well, other tier 2 BS's don't have this one.
So they will have more of the same problem that you will have at your distance.
Dual web's or not, they will need to keep the angular velocity low if they want to hit you with some turret weapon system.
---
  |
el M
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 16:22:00 -
[34]
IMHO IT IS FAR TOO EARLY to fantasize about what the optimal ships setups post speed nerf patch will look like.
And at this point is cleary improper to call it speed nerfing even- its much more than that -> complete agility/mass revamp, complete missile weapon system rework, black ops revamp(separate fuel bay+other abilities),comprehensive modules&implants revamp, and more features the DEVs only hinted at.
At this point the exact changes are not clear even to DEVs. They have goals, ideas -> those must be firstly validated by programmers, tested on Multy/sisi, further tweaked and then finnaly moved to traquility...
One thing you can be sure of -> crippling blaster(short range) turret ships isn't their goal.. If testing will show they need tracking boosted (in view of the web changes) they will boost it. What's one more minor tweak added to a endless list of changes...
In short nothing is final, all is subject to change, and hoppefully (have a bit of faith in CCP's abilities  ) change will be for the better ...
-----------------
aspiring carebear |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 16:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: el M
IMHO IT IS FAR TOO EARLY to fantasize about what the optimal ships setups post speed nerf patch will look like.
And at this point is cleary improper to call it speed nerfing even- its much more than that -> complete agility/mass revamp, complete missile weapon system rework, black ops revamp(separate fuel bay+other abilities),comprehensive modules&implants revamp, and more features the DEVs only hinted at.
At this point the exact changes are not clear even to DEVs. They have goals, ideas -> those must be firstly validated by programmers, tested on Multy/sisi, further tweaked and then finnaly moved to traquility...
One thing you can be sure of -> crippling blaster(short range) turret ships isn't their goal.. If testing will show they need tracking boosted (in view of the web changes) they will boost it. What's one more minor tweak added to a endless list of changes...
In short nothing is final, all is subject to change, and hoppefully (have a bit of faith in CCP's abilities ) change will be for the better ...
Most of the ideas have already been implemented and tested on Sisi/Multi, and most of us have actual experience testing them.
Are they going to change? Sure.
Did it sound like anything significant changed? No.
-Liang
--
|
Heknai
Gallente
The IMorral MAjority
Imorral Dragons
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 16:35:00 -
[36]
First off Liang will destroy any uninformed arguement made on this subject, second, where is this dev post that is 11 pages on the patch?
Hek
--In times of strife and desperation, heroes are made of ordinary men... |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 16:39:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Heknai
First off Liang will destroy any uninformed arguement made on this subject, second, where is this dev post that is 11 pages on the patch?
Hek
 I don't know whether to be happy or sad that this is how I'm viewed. ;-)
-Liang
--
|
el M
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 16:51:00 -
[38]
Edited by: el M on 09/10/2008 16:51:57
Originally by: Heknai
First off Liang will destroy any uninformed arguement made on this subject, second, where is this dev post that is 11 pages on the patch?
Hek
For your listening pleasure
Audio recording
-----------------
aspiring carebear |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 16:54:00 -
[39]
He was asking for a link to the blasters thread. Turns out it's 22 pages long... whoops.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=834365
-Liang
--
|
Heknai
Gallente
The IMorral MAjority
Imorral Dragons
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 17:20:00 -
[40]
haha :P
thanks for the links!
--In times of strife and desperation, heroes are made of ordinary men... |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 18:21:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Burn Mac
webber drones they will act as the second web so the only thing you need to drop is the drones.
Because dropping 300 dps is like dropping nothing... 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Burn Mac
Minmatar
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 18:34:00 -
[42]
Originally by: whisk
Originally by: Burn Mac
webber drones they will act as the second web so the only thing you need to drop is the drones.
ah, only 20% of my dps?
sure thing!
Could be worse you could be minmatar.
|
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 18:40:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 09/10/2008 18:45:12
Well, there is a possibility that it will not require 2 webs... If, as they seem to be hinting, they will make a strong reason for ships that don't really rely on MWDs to use something else, 50% slow might be sufficient. Say they bump ABs so that with skills a T2 AB gives 200% bonus. If nanos/overdrives have basically become a silly choice for most setups, it can be safely assumed most BS will not be running them. Thus, you're looking at a BS doing around 470m/s. With 50% web, cut to 235. It will be harder, but a BS moving at 235m/s really should not be a problem for a skilled mwd blasterthron pilot.
This, of course, is assuming that however they manage to make MWD far less attractive for those not really needing it doesn't also make it a huge ***** to fit for those that do need it.
Or, just bring a rapier with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 18:52:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 09/10/2008 18:45:12
Well, there is a possibility that it will not require 2 webs... If, as they seem to be hinting, they will make a strong reason for ships that don't really rely on MWDs to use something else, 50% slow might be sufficient. Say they bump ABs so that with skills a T2 AB gives 200% bonus. If nanos/overdrives have basically become a silly choice for most setups, it can be safely assumed most BS will not be running them. Thus, you're looking at a BS doing around 470m/s. With 50% web, cut to 235. It will be harder, but a BS moving at 235m/s really should not be a problem for a skilled mwd blasterthron pilot.
This, of course, is assuming that however they manage to make MWD far less attractive for those not really needing it doesn't also make it a huge ***** to fit for those that do need it.
Or, just bring a rapier with you.
You see the thread I linked? Go read it.
-Liang
--
|
Happster
Polaris Project
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 18:56:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Volt Taar
Decreased optimal and falloff to Autocannons?
Man, do you realise that AC's already have close to none optimal range?
With 5 lvl skills AC's have:
Barrage S = 1,5km optimal + 7,5km falloff.
Barrage M = 3km optimal + 15km falloff.
Barrage L = 6km optimal + 30 km falloff.
Cut the optimal in half for EMP numbers...
I can't even imagine the numbers for that "huge damage boost" you are talking about, that will balance your range nerf proposal.
And guys, do you remember that nice tracking bonus on the Megathron?
Well, other tier 2 BS's don't have this one.
So they will have more of the same problem that you will have at your distance.
Dual web's or not, they will need to keep the angular velocity low if they want to hit you with some turret weapon system.
When you think optimal is bad on t2 ammo for minnies, please use Hail as example, it has very very low optimal and falloff 
|
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:00:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 09/10/2008 19:01:00
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 09/10/2008 18:45:12
Well, there is a possibility that it will not require 2 webs... If, as they seem to be hinting, they will make a strong reason for ships that don't really rely on MWDs to use something else, 50% slow might be sufficient. Say they bump ABs so that with skills a T2 AB gives 200% bonus. If nanos/overdrives have basically become a silly choice for most setups, it can be safely assumed most BS will not be running them. Thus, you're looking at a BS doing around 470m/s. With 50% web, cut to 235. It will be harder, but a BS moving at 235m/s really should not be a problem for a skilled mwd blasterthron pilot.
This, of course, is assuming that however they manage to make MWD far less attractive for those not really needing it doesn't also make it a huge ***** to fit for those that do need it.
Or, just bring a rapier with you.
You see the thread I linked? Go read it.
-Liang
I'm not reading 22 pages of forum crap. Feel free to summarize it, o Lady of the Forum.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:18:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
I'm not reading 22 pages of forum crap. Feel free to summarize it, o Lady of the Forum.
Summary: You're wrong.
-Liang
--
|
Atari Sakura
Minmatar
INTERNET HARBLRAGE
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:24:00 -
[48]
I don't see what the big deal here is have any of you TRIED the Mega out with the web changes? My friend and I did, I got in a plated rupture and Orbited him at 5000ish, with the AB going, and guess what? I was killed in about 5 seconds. I didn't try using a a TD, that may have made a difference, but I still got my face ****D. I tried it a nano ship too, I was orbiting him at around 900ms webbed (wtf is that shit) with a overheated MWD and guess what? I got ****d in 3 seconds.
Stop complaining, the Megathron works just fine, the only complaint I can see you having is now ships that are webbed have a EASIER time of getting out of web range
Unless you fit a warp scrambler.
---
This forum is problematic.
Desu Sigs
|
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:29:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Atari Sakura
I don't see what the big deal here is have any of you TRIED the Mega out with the web changes? My friend and I did, I got in a plated rupture and Orbited him at 5000ish, with the AB going, and guess what? I was killed in about 5 seconds. I didn't try using a a TD, that may have made a difference, but I still got my face ****D. I tried it a nano ship too, I was orbiting him at around 900ms webbed (wtf is that shit) with a overheated MWD and guess what? I got ****d in 3 seconds.
Stop complaining, the Megathron works just fine, the only complaint I can see you having is now ships that are webbed have a EASIER time of getting out of web range
Unless you fit a warp scrambler.
I did, actually, and if you'd bothered turning off your MWD you would have lived quite easily - the problem with the web comes from the fact your sig radius is huge compared to the speed that you're traveling... and until you start throwing speed affecting mods (overdrives, nanos, polies, webs, snakes, etc) the MWD doesn't actually affect your chance to be hit by guns at all.
-Liang
--
|
Gram Hellfire
Smoking Hillbillys
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:34:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Domi has 5 mids too ;p
Domi lacks the ability to fit a good blaster fit and have a buffer tank.
-Liang
[Dominix, the nasty]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
Stasis Webifier II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
|
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:36:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Letifer Deus
I'm not reading 22 pages of forum crap. Feel free to summarize it, o Lady of the Forum.
Summary: You're wrong.
-Liang
Wow, great summary. The points you brought up countering my argument were excellent! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Atari Sakura
I don't see what the big deal here is have any of you TRIED the Mega out with the web changes? My friend and I did, I got in a plated rupture and Orbited him at 5000ish, with the AB going, and guess what? I was killed in about 5 seconds. I didn't try using a a TD, that may have made a difference, but I still got my face ****D. I tried it a nano ship too, I was orbiting him at around 900ms webbed (wtf is that shit) with a overheated MWD and guess what? I got ****d in 3 seconds.
Stop complaining, the Megathron works just fine, the only complaint I can see you having is now ships that are webbed have a EASIER time of getting out of web range
Unless you fit a warp scrambler.
I did, actually, and if you'd bothered turning off your MWD you would have lived quite easily - the problem with the web comes from the fact your sig radius is huge compared to the speed that you're traveling... and until you start throwing speed affecting mods (overdrives, nanos, polies, webs, snakes, etc) the MWD doesn't actually affect your chance to be hit by guns at all.
-Liang
Liang is right. If you had been smart and turned off the mwd you'd have stood a much better chance.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:37:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Wow, great summary. The points you brought up countering my argument were excellent!
I linked you to 22 pages of excellent feedback related to this particular change: you refused to read it and asked for a summary. I don't feel like rewriting 22 pages just to overcome your laziness... so enjoy.
-Liang
--
|
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:40:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 09/10/2008 19:44:22
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Wow, great summary. The points you brought up countering my argument were excellent!
I linked you to 22 pages of excellent feedback related to this particular change: you refused to read it and asked for a summary. I don't feel like rewriting 22 pages just to overcome your laziness... so enjoy.
-Liang
Would it be that hard for you to say
"point 1:
point 2:
point 3:
that's why you're wrong."
No. And that certainly doesn't require "rewriting 22 pages". You simply chose to be a jackass. I don't have time to waste reading through 22 pages of forum drivel. I took a shower, shaved, washed my face and brushed my teeth instead. Now I'm off to run errands.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Omarvelous
Caldari
Destry's Lounge
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:48:00 -
[55]
Originally by: whisk
Originally by: Burn Mac
webber drones they will act as the second web so the only thing you need to drop is the drones.
ah, only 20% of my dps?
sure thing!
I don't think you have to give up all 5 heavy drones - maybe have 2 webbers and 3 ogres?
I'll be honest, I have both blaster and missile skills, and I'm hard pressed to find a situation where I'd prefer my Rokh over my Raven for small gang pvp.
I'd be happier with a blaster DEE PEE ESS boost. 
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
|
Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:49:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 09/10/2008 19:50:00
Consider this a genuine question (less then a recommendation)for I truly don't have the answer and could be way off.
But how about a friend in a Huginn or Rapier?
|
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 19:56:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 09/10/2008 19:50:00
Consider this a genuine question (less then a recommendation)for I truly don't have the answer and could be way off.
But how about a friend in a Huginn or Rapier?
Webs are currently stacking nerfed... but even if they weren't blasters would still be in a world of hurt:
>>> 0.1 ** 2
0.010000000000000002
>>> 0.4 ** 5
0.010240000000000003
This means that you need 3-4 people at the minimum to get the effect of two webs now (a single Hype/Myrm) - and thus your gang size is large enough that none of you should be in blaster ships to start with. :-/
-Liang
--
|
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 20:04:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Would it be that hard for you to say
"point 1:
point 2:
point 3:
that's why you're wrong."
No. And that certainly doesn't require "rewriting 22 pages". You simply chose to be a jackass. I don't have time to waste reading through 22 pages of forum drivel. I took a shower, shaved, washed my face and brushed my teeth instead. Now I'm off to run errands.
Would it have been hard for you to peruse the 22 page thread and possibly examine the back and forth of ideas that's represented there?
You call it "forum drivel", and that's fine: any post that I made summarizing it would be exactly that to you as well... but I assure you that the thread is worth reading, especially the first couple of pages and from page 8 or so onwards. There are brief moments of outright trolling (as one might expect anywhere on Eve-O, such as what you're doing now), but by and large the thread is vastly informative.
So get informed.
-Liang
--
|
Myra2007
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 20:16:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 09/10/2008 19:50:00
Consider this a genuine question (less then a recommendation)for I truly don't have the answer and could be way off.
But how about a friend in a Huginn or Rapier?
If you can afford to take a huginn pilot with you you could as well hop into an amarr bs (because you will tackle people at range with the recon(s)) and obliterate the shit out of your enemies.
There is a small nice post by merin somewhere in this forum that talks about why caldari/gallente philosophy is superior in today's combat environment. Gallente ships are made to "do it all in one": dps, tackling, ewar the complete package basically. Once you start specializing roles in your fleet you might as well realize that amarr/caldari ships are always the better specialists.
This is (imo) one fundamental problem with the new scrambler modules and the reduced webs. Gallente don't have the med slots anymoreto do it all. If the 4th med slot of a thron (over say a geddon) does not enable me to web targets enough to hit them properly and i need support - why then take it over said geddon which can invest this slot into tank and gank with 5 x the range?
My 2 cents
|
Trevor Warps
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 20:27:00 -
[60]
Well well ... Rookie pilots everywhere.
First : In terms of fitting EHP, Blaster Domi (1000 dps, 135 ehp) > Hype. In terms of dmg or active tank, Hype > Domi.
Second : Web Are Overpowered Now. Anybody that doesn't agree that a single cheapo module able to be fitted on pretty much any ship, that can get its target rid of 90% of its speed is an overpowered module, is blind or afraid of changes. Lets not talk about double webs ...
Third : If you are in a blaster Megathron and cant hit another BS without a web, on TQ in current state ... practice more ... learn to fly a blaster mega ... don't cry if your copy-pasted your eft fit and realized it doesnt do magic when you F1-F8.
No, I didn't went on test server. No, I didn't read 22 pages long threads. I just know I'll be fine after the patch no matter what ...
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |