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Kwa Kaine
eXceed Inc.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 00:28:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Vaal Erit
Once again a live dev blog proves to be worthless. Don't panic just yet, wait until the final "real blog" comes out or the speed changes come back onto Sisi. Other than that, the live dev blogs are just a bunch of random devs that usually don't know wtf they are talking about.
Too true, according to nozh slave implants are the ones that increase speed. 
EVE Online Customer Support <- It would be nice if this actually existed.
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Poast Warrior
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.09 00:30:00 -
[32]
I have a feeling the changes will turn out badly :(
Hopefully I'm wrong.
Originally by: Kiay Stryx
Your an idiot.
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.10.09 00:34:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kwa Kaine
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Once again a live dev blog proves to be worthless. Don't panic just yet, wait until the final "real blog" comes out or the speed changes come back onto Sisi. Other than that, the live dev blogs are just a bunch of random devs that usually don't know wtf they are talking about.
Too true, according to nozh slave implants are the ones that increase speed.
Wow... No wonder there's so many stat and module inconsistencies for people to complain about. The devs are too ignorant and/or stupid to notice them.
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.10.09 00:38:00 -
[34]
If you missed the live blog, just read the 2 month old text dev blog. It said exactly the same thing. ALthough, I guess you could claim that the new thing we learnt was that Nozh and Fendahl have done nothing for 2 months, and not improved the patch in any way whatsoever.
_______________________________________________
Mercenary Forces |
Keflin Geard
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.09 00:43:00 -
[35]
Basically all ships in the game are getting slower and less maneuverable - minmatar are getting shafted - intys are even less viable - expensive faction fitted ships with implants will become less worthwhile - (pitty cos I always wanted to fly a Mach ) The stupid warp scram killing wmds idea still has not been quietly taken out and shot - some *******s about missiles.
CCP has sort of made most of the ships in the game slower and more brick like to make AFs more viable - which is odd because the real reason nobody flies AF's is because they were so fuc**** slow and brick like for there size.
So in 2.5 months of deep meditation CCP have'nt really come up with anything new - instead of making the sensible changes most people agree on - changing polys and snakes and gang bonus and tweaking hacs (except the vaga) from going inty type speeds - they seem determined to press ahead with these major changes that fundamentally alter the game play most most have become used to.
It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. I wonder how long it will take those who could not deal with nano ships to start *****ing about how overpowered ecm and energy neuts are.
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Alex Raptos
Caldari
The Firestorm Millennium
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Posted - 2008.10.09 00:55:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Strill
Originally by: Kwa Kaine
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Once again a live dev blog proves to be worthless. Don't panic just yet, wait until the final "real blog" comes out or the speed changes come back onto Sisi. Other than that, the live dev blogs are just a bunch of random devs that usually don't know wtf they are talking about.
Too true, according to nozh slave implants are the ones that increase speed.
Wow... No wonder there's so many stat and module inconsistencies for people to complain about. The devs are too ignorant and/or stupid to notice them.
I never heard him say Slave, i heard Mindstar say snake several times (at least i believe it was him) but Nozh never said slaves the whole time?
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Janiza Draken
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Posted - 2008.10.09 00:57:00 -
[37]
Was wondering about the scram thing. I mean when I am within 9 kms to my target I never needed my mwd anyway (webbed / wanted to stay in this range).
Other thing I was wondering about, why should afs get boosted by this change?
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.10.09 01:16:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Strill on 09/10/2008 01:17:39
Originally by: Janiza Draken
Was wondering about the scram thing. I mean when I am within 9 kms to my target I never needed my mwd anyway (webbed / wanted to stay in this range).
Other thing I was wondering about, why should afs get boosted by this change?
Blaster battleships have enough range to do ok damage at 10km, but nine times out of ten they'll end up doing better damage using railguns. Cruisers and battlecruisers with less range are just screwed. Their speed gets killed the moment they get within 9km and they can't ever get within optimal.
Not only that, but blasters have the worst tracking of any gun. Their tracking stat is best, but the trackable traversal speed at optimal and falloff ranges is the lowest of any gun. Right now the only reason blasters are usable is because of 90% webifiers. With those gone, large blaster can't even hit an unfitted, webbed T1 cruiser orbiting at 1km.
Oh and the reason AFs get boosted is because CCP is trying to balance out all the ships so that bigger ships are slower and smaller ships are faster. AFs have sub-par speed for a frigate, so they get a speed buff.
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Ryuga VonRhaiden
Caldari
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.10.09 01:53:00 -
[39]
oh yessss... more blood and steel, less nanofiber!! :D
Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature. |
F90OEX
F9X
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Posted - 2008.10.09 01:56:00 -
[40]
Tbh did not make much of the Dev blog. Devs never really touched on the key and difficult issues, like someone had said nothing is changed much since the SISI patch 2 months ago... You have to really wonder why kinda testing they did at all.
But towards the end in the blob channel was an absolute disgrace, what's the average age of Eve players 25 ?, but yet **** links, woman shitting on themselves pictures, rick rolls and god knows what was spammed for 5mins, after people has asked for them to be kicked, and all CCP Mindstar said was....
[ 2008.10.08 20:29:56 ] CCP Mindstar > lol
How about laying out some bans ffs
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CHAOS100
Black Plague.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 02:42:00 -
[41]
Edited by: CHAOS100 on 09/10/2008 02:42:36
The way CCP deals with issues is simple. Something is wrong with 1 particular item: nerf everything else so it is decent. If missiles can't hit nano ships because they are too dumb to bring a friendly rapier (ratters usually don't have many PVP minmatar friends when solo ratting in ravens) THEN nerf nanos.
If Amarr is shitty because EM damage is tanked well, nerf everybody's EM resist. The EM change ended up good for Amarr, which is good because my alt trained for Amarr/Caldari is now my preferred char over my minnie/gallente speced main. But, it could have been done much more easily by addressing the particular issue at hand, not attempting to change the entire game. By doing that, you just open up probably 5 times the number of new imbalances because EVE PVP is a delicate ecosystem.
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Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors.
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.09 03:22:00 -
[42]
transcript or recording please?
~Solo
Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
Pirate Coalition (Yar?) |
Faife
Noctiscion
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Posted - 2008.10.09 03:27:00 -
[43]
POST NERF VAGA, draft 1
H: 5 T2 ACs, 1 defender launcher
M: scram, web, tracking disruptor, AB
L: 2 gyros, OD, OD, nano
drones: ECM
fight from 7km, use orbit velocity and disruptor to avoid gun damage, defenders to avoid missile damage
option 2 is doubling defenders and adding plate. might want to avoid shield tanks to not have a larger sig radius.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.09 03:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Keflin Geard
Basically all ships in the game are getting slower and less maneuverable - minmatar are getting shafted - intys are even less viable - expensive faction fitted ships with implants will become less worthwhile - (pitty cos I always wanted to fly a Mach ) The stupid warp scram killing wmds idea still has not been quietly taken out and shot - some *******s about missiles.
CCP has sort of made most of the ships in the game slower and more brick like to make AFs more viable - which is odd because the real reason nobody flies AF's is because they were so fuc**** slow and brick like for there size.
So in 2.5 months of deep meditation CCP have'nt really come up with anything new - instead of making the sensible changes most people agree on - changing polys and snakes and gang bonus and tweaking hacs (except the vaga) from going inty type speeds - they seem determined to press ahead with these major changes that fundamentally alter the game play most most have become used to.
It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. I wonder how long it will take those who could not deal with nano ships to start *****ing about how overpowered ecm and energy neuts are.
sensi what changes?
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 06:57:00 -
[45]
So, will MWD:s be like an AB except with
1. Cap weakness
2. Sig radius weakness
3. Vulnerability to scrams
?
I'd like to see a speed comparison chart between AB & MWD post-nerf.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 06:58:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Faife
fight from 7km [...] orbit velocity
Something about this sounds so wrong...
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Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.09 07:08:00 -
[47]
Originally by: SeismicForce
- The new scrambler will disable MWD's
wtf
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.09 07:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
They're game designers, not whiny forumers. Yes, they DO know better than you do.
Wrong. The players knows better.
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.09 07:38:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Kerfira on 09/10/2008 07:41:17
Originally by: CHAOS100
The way CCP deals with issues is simple. Something is wrong with 1 particular item: nerf everything else so it is decent.
This is simply not true. F.ex. with the last HAC revision, they added high-slots to the Eagle and the Zealot.
However, nerfs and buffs have to balance each other out in a game like this. Sometimes you need the nerf-bat, and a big one at that.
For this change, the main problem is the physics engine having trouble and a general problem with speed being too effective. So, they keep approximately the same proportional speed for the classes, change some classes a bit more (AF's), and restrict speed enhancement primarily for the heavier ships. Problem solved!
The scram/web changes are also good as they force people to CHOOSE fittings, not just fit a standard 24km point/web/mwd. More choice is always good, and now AB's and 7.5km points become viable again!
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
Wrong. The players knows better.
ROFL. I'd like some of what you're smoking....
Players (99%) of players think that what is good for them personally is good for the game. However, most often the opposite is true.
Players want more ISK, but doesn't think about the overall game economy.
Players don't want to loose THEIR ships but want to kill the others (nano'ers being a prime example).
etc...
In general, players want to feel they're better than the other players, even when they're not. Nano'ers have had that feeling until now, not because of their skill, but because they've fitted their ships with broken game mechanics.
If nano'ers were as good PvP'ers as they claim they are, they'd simply adapt and keep on killing, but they know they aren't, and thus don't want to give up their I-Win button....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Tomoe Heth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.09 07:44:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Keflin Geard
Basically all ships in the game are getting slower and less maneuverable - minmatar are getting shafted - intys are even less viable - expensive faction fitted ships with implants will become less worthwhile - (pitty cos I always wanted to fly a Mach ) The stupid warp scram killing wmds idea still has not been quietly taken out and shot - some *******s about missiles.
CCP has sort of made most of the ships in the game slower and more brick like to make AFs more viable - which is odd because the real reason nobody flies AF's is because they were so fuc**** slow and brick like for there size.
So in 2.5 months of deep meditation CCP have'nt really come up with anything new - instead of making the sensible changes most people agree on - changing polys and snakes and gang bonus and tweaking hacs (except the vaga) from going inty type speeds - they seem determined to press ahead with these major changes that fundamentally alter the game play most most have become used to.
It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. I wonder how long it will take those who could not deal with nano ships to start *****ing about how overpowered ecm and energy neuts are.
Please please call the devs on msn chat or whatever you bobbies use and talk some sense into them! 
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Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.09 07:48:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kerfira
ROFL. I'd like some of what you're smoking....
Players (99%) of players think that what is good for them personally is good for the game. However, most often the opposite is true.
In all other industries, the developers listens to their customers. I.e the users.
People who develope golf clubs, snow boards, computers, cars, fish tanks you name it listens to their customers and develope things for them because they the users know whats what. In CCP's case, its a bunch of ignorant devs whos idea of AF buff is giving it 1 more power unit, and who uses years to finally realize a race is broken. The "developers" track record speaks for itself.
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 07:50:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kerfira
If nano'ers were as good PvP'ers as they claim they are, they'd simply adapt and keep on killing, but they know they aren't, and thus don't want to give up their I-Win button....
<snicker>
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Anneka Tong
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2008.10.09 07:54:00 -
[53]
"Medium drones look like they will be taking a nerf as they are too over powered."
?
in what way? less damage output? worse sig resolution? slower?
I like genetic engineering
Past projects: The Radioactive Sheep
Current project: CyberCow |
Darth Felin
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Posted - 2008.10.09 10:03:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Anneka Tong
"Medium drones look like they will be taking a nerf as they are too over powered."
?
in what way? less damage output? worse sig resolution? slower?
Nothing is decided as I understood. But they want to reach situation when light drones will be able to hit everything ok,
medium ones cruiser+ (maybe destroyer+) and heavy ones BS+ (maybe BC+)
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.09 10:35:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
In all other industries, the developers listens to their customers. I.e the users.
CCP listens, then they filter out self-serving arguments, consider pros and cons, make a decision and implement the changes decided on.
Please pay attention to the 'filter out self-serving arguments' part!!
There's a difference between listening to customers when selling a single-user product (like all the stuff you mentioned), and selling a game where users are AGAINST each other and wants to promote anything that improves their own odds and diminish the odds of their opponents.
The users (or at least 99% of them) are inherently incapable of deciding what is good for the GAME, as they always confuse that with what is good for themselves.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.09 10:36:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Darth Felin
Nothing is decided as I understood. But they want to reach situation when light drones will be able to hit everything ok,
medium ones cruiser+ (maybe destroyer+) and heavy ones BS+ (maybe BC+)
Sounds fair TBH. At least from a mission running POV, I don't see any real difference in killing speed of scrambling frigates whether I use smalls or mediums....
In PvP drones usually doesn't matter a lot.....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Political Prisoner
Amarr
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.10.09 10:37:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
The EVE equivalent would be making PVP consensual (e.g. it's not gonna happen)
Don't HOLD your breath. Remember the war dec thing is being looked into.
Respectfully,
Political Prisoner
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 10:44:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kerfira
The scram/web changes are also good as they force people to CHOOSE fittings, not just fit a standard 24km point/web/mwd. More choice is always good, and now AB's and 7.5km points become viable again!
No, it won't. AB+scram will be viable for some solo lol-kill fits, but it will not be viable for:
(a) gang PvP, short of maybe frigsized hulls
(b) gtfo capability
(c) range control
Hey. Wait. Isn't gang PvP 90% of EvE combat, and gtfo capability and range control the major reasons why you fit a MWD?
Oh, wait
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.09 10:58:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
In all other industries, the developers listens to their customers. I.e the users.
CCP listens, then they filter out self-serving arguments, consider pros and cons, make a decision and implement the changes decided on.
Please pay attention to the 'filter out self-serving arguments' part!!
There's a difference between listening to customers when selling a single-user product (like all the stuff you mentioned), and selling a game where users are AGAINST each other and wants to promote anything that improves their own odds and diminish the odds of their opponents.
The users (or at least 99% of them) are inherently incapable of deciding what is good for the GAME, as they always confuse that with what is good for themselves.
What he said. Lets just chill and have a look when changes are availabe for testing on Sisi or Multi. People will eventually adapt anyways, so it's no the sky is falling issue...
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 11:10:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 09/10/2008 11:10:42
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
In all other industries, the developers listens to their customers. I.e the users.
CCP listens, then they filter out self-serving arguments, consider pros and cons, make a decision and implement the changes decided on.
Please pay attention to the 'filter out self-serving arguments' part!!
There's a difference between listening to customers when selling a single-user product (like all the stuff you mentioned), and selling a game where users are AGAINST each other and wants to promote anything that improves their own odds and diminish the odds of their opponents.
The users (or at least 99% of them) are inherently incapable of deciding what is good for the GAME, as they always confuse that with what is good for themselves.
Ok, business 101 bud.
When you stop producing a product that 99% of your customer base wants, you keep 1% and lose 99%.
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