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SE10
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Posted - 2004.06.23 21:27:00 -
[1]
PLEASE NOTE: THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ALLIANCE WARS, SO PLEASE DO NOT INTRODUCE THESE INTO THE TOPIC
Proposal (updated) v2.2
Due to valid concerns raised in the last topic that I posted about the stated security measures being easily avoided, I have updated security measures which should counter any unauthorized entries by æalt spies.Æ
This would involve putting the names of all the people going on this mining expedition into alliance space into my æbio.Æ I would then send a message to the alliances informing them to where they could obtain this information. This could easily be copied using copy and paste functions to all member corps and from there to all members through a æcorp. messageÆ. I do not believe that this would be too much effort, although I may be wrong. All of the people on our side would be screened as effectively, if not MORE effectively than a player corporation would be able to, as we would have known these people for over 2 months. ANYONE who could be deemed suspicious would be automatically rejected.
Concerns have also been raised about the alliance having to make an extra effort to accommodate us. This is NOT true. The alliance would be able to continue as normal and would not have to defend us against the NPC rat spawns. All of the people who would go on this mining venture would be equipped with a battleship. A few of the people who would come would be over 1 year in playing EVE.
There have also been comments about our mining in alliance space hurting that allianceÆs armaments industries, by taking the ore that they could have mined for our own. We would only be taking around 14-15 people on this expedition, and at least two thirds of these people would either be defending or would be in ships with only a few mining lasers. We only have around 2 Apocalypse ships; most of them are fighter vessels. With this small sized mining operation, it would be quite hard to make a dent in this alliances production.
What would the alliance get out of doing this and letting us mine in their space? Many have suggested that we should aid for a while in the defense of this alliance. However, we do not wish to do this as this would break our neutrality. We do not feel that we have the capital available to make enemies at this point. What we could easily get for this alliance is recruitment. Since we are in a starter corp. a lot of new players come through us. Eventually when they wish to move on, they sometimes ask if we can recommend any good corporations. We find this hard, as we do not know any, and most recruitment posts and corporation websites are naturally biased towards that corporation. To effectively recommend, we have to go and see it for ourselves, which is also another reason for mining in alliance controlled space. This would be the perfect opportunity to observe what certain corporations are like and their qualities, so that we could make an effective judgment. At this offer, many people in the past have declared that what an alliance does not need is more æn00bs.Æ I personally believe that this is wrong. This æn00bÆ may be accepted into another alliance, after yours rejects him. He will be helped into a battleship, and to get the accompanying skills. One day he will NOT be a æn00b,Æ and will become almost as good as the best that you have to offer. He will become a serious asset to their fighting force. However, he will not be fighting with you, like he would have been if he had been accepted, but rather against you. Get the players before they go to your enemy!
If you have any comments or problems with the above proposal please do post about them, and I will make amends where necessary. If any alliance is interested please post or eve-mail me in game. Thank you
SE10
Science and Trade Institute |
Leno
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Posted - 2004.06.23 21:53:00 -
[2]
i still say most alliances dont want more ppl mining their minerals regardless of how few, the risk of alt spys is just icing on the cake. I understand ur problems and i do sympathize b/c most the good mining is taken. The best suggestion i can give u guys is either start ur own corp or talk to a corp in an alliance and all of u join, even my corp would be willing to take u on if u promised to do ur share of the fighting. But besides that ur best hope is CFS, and that area is no safer then the open space in pure blind, Vale, and Tribute.
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RIP - Smoske, My Friend
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Notferr
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Posted - 2004.06.23 21:59:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Notferr on 23/06/2004 22:02:22
SE10,
Leno is right. There is no getting around the security concerns.
However, eve-mail me when you get this.
I might have a suggestion for you that would help you guys out.
Thanks,
- N -
Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse
Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi.
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myggan
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Posted - 2004.06.23 22:48:00 -
[4]
syndicate is huge and not spoken for
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crice
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Posted - 2004.06.23 23:00:00 -
[5]
SE10 evemail crice in game if you like.
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juduzz
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Posted - 2004.06.23 23:08:00 -
[6]
Security concerns aside and they are as stated still HUGE.
You mining opswould proberly mean you mining billions of ores in total now what does the allaince get? a small chance that maybe few ppl "might" join some of there corps?
Even if alliance A lets your group mine in there space there still a huge chance that they will end upin an alliance that is an enermy at one time ( seen it alot lots of peeps im friends with are my enermy aswell).
Yes its harsh but as said on the previous thread most these alliance fought for every sector every asteriod field why should they let some one takes alot of mins ( and if you think a 15 man mining op dosnt take alot no offence mate but youll be kidding yourself) and basicly get next to nothing in return just a slight chance that a few might join a corp in said alliance?
Your attemp to bring this type of thing is admirable and the dedication youve shown trying to convince alllainces is a feat on its own but I dont believe you will ever get any closed space/closed to mining alliance like PA COD FU norad CA ect to take this offer up because in the end it does just turn into that allaince giving you hand outs.
I do wish you luck though in your attemps but feel under your current circumstances that your best bet would still be open space like tribute pure blind syndicate ect.
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TGIF
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Posted - 2004.06.23 23:08:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: crice
SE10 evemail crice in game if you like.
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Absinthe Fueled |
crice
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Posted - 2004.06.23 23:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: TGIF
Originally by: crice
SE10 evemail crice in game if you like.
Don't worry TGIF. I wasn't born yesterday.
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Procion
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Posted - 2004.06.23 23:18:00 -
[9]
just join xetic alliance all they do is mine anyway
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TGIF
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Posted - 2004.06.23 23:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: crice
Originally by: TGIF
Originally by: crice
SE10 evemail crice in game if you like.
Don't worry TGIF. I wasn't born yesterday.
Good because i strongly suggest you to read this part:
Quote:
What would the alliance get out of doing this and letting us mine in their space? Many have suggested that we should aid for a while in the defense of this alliance. However, we do not wish to do this as this would break our neutrality. We do not feel that we have the capital available to make enemies at this point.
Does any alliance needs carebears who make no contributions? No.
- - -
Absinthe Fueled |
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crice
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Posted - 2004.06.23 23:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: TGIF
Originally by: crice
Originally by: TGIF
Originally by: crice
SE10 evemail crice in game if you like.
Don't worry TGIF. I wasn't born yesterday.
Good because i strongly suggest you to read this part:
Quote:
What would the alliance get out of doing this and letting us mine in their space? Many have suggested that we should aid for a while in the defense of this alliance. However, we do not wish to do this as this would break our neutrality. We do not feel that we have the capital available to make enemies at this point.
Does any alliance needs carebears who make no contributions? No.
LOL. Ya no ****....
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.06.23 23:40:00 -
[12]
I believe the CFS is free to enter, and FA has a long-standing pass system.
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K. Raven
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Porter Hadlend
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Posted - 2004.06.24 00:41:00 -
[13]
The FA has a passport system, but we don't allow mining. Our passports are for hunting and trading - Mining is in house.
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credendo vides - believing is seeing
-=Proud member of the Fountain Alliance=-
Hell Hath No Fury Like A Shattered Star! |
Orbital Drift
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Posted - 2004.06.24 02:15:00 -
[14]
You want the ore? You take the ore.
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.06.24 02:54:00 -
[15]
That is one solution.
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000 
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Moiran
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Posted - 2004.06.24 04:16:00 -
[16]
Quote:
just join xetic alliance all they do is mine anyway
I don't think we would have our space still if all we did was mining, but then again i don't see anything wrong with it either 
We are atm closed for new applicants and we don't give or have giving out hunting/mining passes to anyone, anyone accepting words not from official diplomats as if they have permission to mine/hunt in our space can better come in an large force or risk being podded on the spot.
This is nothing personal we all have standings to each other on +5.5 minimum anyone not showing up blue will be fair game in our space because we can't see the difference between an harmless visitor or an enemy.
if you wanna make sure you talk to an official visit our forum at http://xtrader.addix.net/~xetic/ and click on diplomats.
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Shiwan Khan
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Posted - 2004.06.24 05:54:00 -
[17]
I dont read long winded posts so all im gonna say is this. Alt spys are a problem but lets face it, no matter how tight ur security in an alliance is you WILL have spys. What i think everyone is complaining about is the fact that a bunch of empire noobs are gonna come to their space that they fought hard to keep and claim and you are just gonna mine their ore because you want to. Sure you will use things like "But the new players could use this boost to help them in the game" and stuff like that but when it comes down to it, who cares, i mean honestly cares? I dont. The ONLY way i could possably see this working is if you gave a HUGE chunk of what you mine to someone in that alliance as payment for using their claimed space.
This is my 2 cents.
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Propehcy
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Posted - 2004.06.24 06:07:00 -
[18]
Yup shiwan pointed out the bottem line perfectley,
Alliances like CA don't wan't a bunch of empire newbs coming in, mining minerals and leaving, it doesn't help the alliance, and it'll never happen. Why? Because alliances are not going to give people their minerals for free Period.
You wan't to mine rare ores? Fight for it. We did.
-The DarkHand
** Ex-CA Rep and Ex-CA Member **
http://www.designegrafix.com/eve/prop5.jpg
Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley.
The Prop And Notferr Chronicles
Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence!
Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is.
Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing!
Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud.
Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr...
[ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
TGIF
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Posted - 2004.06.24 07:37:00 -
[19]
Most of us...
- - -
Absinthe Fueled |
Limpchimp
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Posted - 2004.06.24 08:20:00 -
[20]
Not being nasty but have you ever heard the saying
"you don't get something for nothing"
What you are proposing is just the above, and I am sorry to say this chap but no Alliance is ever gonna accept that. You are asking for entry to alliance space, that people have worked extreemly hard to get. Then you want to mine the ores they have fought for, only to bugger off and sell them for 100% profit to you and 0% profit to the alliance.
that in anyones eyes is not good business sense, nor is it a good offer. The thing is you can revise this thread as much as you want but while you wish to stay neutral, you will have to mine in neutral space.
I would one day like my corp to enter into Alliance space, but I would never dream of considering moving their without accepting the fact that you will become part of the bigger issues. In order for you to get where you want to be, you are going to have to really consider the implications. You will become part of a war, you will have to fight, you will loose ships.
Mine in Neutral space, with the ships you have you can easily make enough Isk to sustain yourselves, only when you are ready to join an Alliance would I suggest you post again.
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pHASE 11
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Posted - 2004.06.24 09:16:00 -
[21]
Edited by: pHASE 11 on 24/06/2004 09:25:41
As already pointed out SE10 seems to have some difficulty in grasping the idea of why anyone would NOT want to give him something for nothing in return.
Sometimes there are quite amusing discussions in the npc corps where I have my alts. I have nothing against n00bz but some of the older peeps in these npc corps have amusing views on alliances, pirates and 0.0 space.
If everyone in Evolved Technologies corp are as understanding as Mr Limpchimp here I'd say they should try to find an alliance that suits them.
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Darken Two
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Posted - 2004.06.24 11:14:00 -
[22]
Question, what makes you think most alliances dont have alts in noob corps anyway. I'm guessing most of the big corps have alts in noob corps for the express purpose of recruitment.
And your statement about it being just 15-20 of you mining, the allainces have spent a lot of time and money securing their space in the first place. Theres no real incentive for them to share the areas they secured with anyone who "just wants to mine". And as some guys pointed out, noone really cares.
Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
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Limpchimp
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Posted - 2004.06.24 11:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: pHASE 11
Edited by: pHASE 11 on 24/06/2004 09:25:41
If everyone in Evolved Technologies corp are as understanding as Mr Limpchimp here I'd say they should try to find an alliance that suits them.
I am just a diplomatic kinda guy in a shirt and a tie 
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Jade Constantia
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Posted - 2004.06.24 11:30:00 -
[24]
This is an ironic thread, pretty much everyone in agreement. I guess the concept of miners that what to mine without giving anything back in space "defended" by somebody else's effort doesn't really impress very much.
Now from my perspective (anti restrictive territorial alliances and pro freespace) I'm afraid it doesn't get much more encouraging because I have to say:
Take responsibility for defending your own operations. If you want ore then go and get it, but realise you will have to look to your own defense while doing it. This may mean you make marginally less filthy profits (since some of your ships need guns) but frankly, any corporation that has a couple of apocalypse class miners should be able to equip a small wing of combat cruisers and frigates with little trouble.
Freespace doesn't equal free-lunch. It becomes free because people spill blood to make it free, and it stays free because the residents know that freedom has a price.
Take responsibilty and defend yourselves.
The Great Northern War: 14 Day Commentary by Jade Constantine
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Gallente roleplaying and cultural exchange channel!
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.06.24 11:43:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Andrew Redburn on 24/06/2004 11:48:55
The only free space where you could probably do this is Querious, Delve and Period Base. Before you enter the region through Kaira/A2, ask local CFS/Blackavatar/Imperium Technologies/FA pilots if the way is safe to travel.
If you mine there, make sure you don't pop any roids (use scanners). Refining can be done in TPAR-G (FA Station) or 3BK (BA Station).
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Xavier Cardde
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Posted - 2004.06.24 14:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Moiran
Quote:
just join xetic alliance all they do is mine anyway
I don't think we would have our space still if all we did was mining, but then again i don't see anything wrong with it either
We are atm closed for new applicants and we don't give or have giving out hunting/mining passes to anyone, anyone accepting words not from official diplomats as if they have permission to mine/hunt in our space can better come in an large force or risk being podded on the spot.
This is nothing personal we all have standings to each other on +5.5 minimum anyone not showing up blue will be fair game in our space because we can't see the difference between an harmless visitor or an enemy.
if you wanna make sure you talk to an official visit our forum at http://xtrader.addix.net/~xetic/ and click on diplomats.
Your ships do drop some nice loot upon occasion, some nice expanders ive found.... I love war.
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Beringe
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Posted - 2004.06.24 15:29:00 -
[27]
Ore is a commodity that alliances can't afford to give to neutrals. It is the only commodity in EVE that is region-based.
And even if an alliance is based on idealism in stead of economics, you won't find anyone willing to defend your mining operations for nothing. As Jade said, the most you can hope for is to mine in unclaimed space ("free" space, that is...all 0.0 is lawless), defending yourself.
This stinks of greed and/or naiveness. Possibly greed disguised as naiveness.
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"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Zeram
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Posted - 2004.06.24 18:00:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Zeram on 24/06/2004 18:03:02
Judging by the responses I hope it's clear to you why this will get you nowhere. No offense but, time for you guys to stop being "professional victims" thinking the alliances are holding you back. You need to seize the day and join an alliance, push into alliance space to mine (accepting the consequences) or mine in "free" space (accepting the consequences/*responsibility*).
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Send me money, send me green
Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution
and you'll get a better seat |
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