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Florestan Bronstein
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
536
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Posted - 2012.04.26 13:54:00 -
[91] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:Florestan Bronstein wrote:DeBingJos wrote:What you say is wrong.
To go further on yoru example: lets say CCP creates a plex and sells it throught an alt. Result : they lose 15$
Then they buy a plex with an alt. they have to create isk to buy it. Result : +-500mil isk get injected into the economy.
Total results of the 1-1 action: They lose 15$ and have created 500mil out out thin air in the game -> inflation. 2 bad effects that don't cancel each other out.  you seem to forget that CCP gets ISK for the PLEX it sells and a PLEX for the ISK it sells. CCP sells a PLEX: -1 PLEX, +500m ISK CCP buys a PLEX: +1 PLEX, -500m ISK net value of transactions: zero either the 500m or the PLEX only exist temporarily (depending on whether CCP starts by buying or selling) and gets deleted after the second transaction is complete. the other component (ISK or PLEX) is taken from players and returned to players. The whole point of CCP trying to manipulate the plex market is reducing the amount of plex ingame or increasing it. If they just buy one for 500mil and sell it again for 500mil they have accomplished nothing... 
maybe... there is some time between buying and selling^^
the whole point of open market interventions by CCP would be to stabilize the market and prevent exaggerations and panics, not to change its equilbrium (equilbrium is adjusted through balancing of income sources and PLEX/GTC deals).
e.g CCP could sell while the market is trending up and buy at roughly the same price when it is going down - this would help to stabilize the market and moderate price swings.
For a few weeks some extra PLEXes or isk would exist but as long as EyjoG stays honest these would be removed from the game eventually.
there is a little problem with rgds to what he should do if he makes a profit (or loss) - in real life profits are usually passed on to the government and losses would result in recapitalization - I guess in EVE he could just dump excess ISK on some lucky trader, losses are probably best handled by borrowing against future profits^^ |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
66
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Posted - 2012.04.26 14:39:00 -
[92] - Quote
XEcuTioneRUK wrote:this has spoilt EVE for quite a few players, I know of at least 7 players that have stopped using alts
Don't worry, I've gone from 6-7 accounts to 15 in the last year so I'm picking up the slack from your poverty stricken acquaintances.
XEcuTioneRUK wrote:isk to be earnt doing missions, mining is just not viable
Are you sure these people aren't just bad at the game?
I ask because if they've been mining for income during a period of very low mineral prices only to stop that activity when the mineral prices shoot through the roof then then might be, you know, "special".
Missions have been a terrible way to make isk for a long time too, so I'd have to wonder why they hadn't moved on to something better long before now.
XEcuTioneRUK wrote:Along with the recent nerf to loot, this will drop even more players from EVE
This is nothing new, people have been quitting EVE because they find it too hard since the game launched. That doesn't mean we should make it easier in order to retain these people. You have to remember that a lot of EVE's most loyal and long term players are so because of the relatively challenging nature of the game.
XEcuTioneRUK wrote:as most real manufacturers relied on the HS/T1 loot to melt down for the rare minerals to actually build items that were worth building, selling and making ISK from, now they will have to either; move in and out of LOW/NULL space and risk losing ships (ISK SINK) - (FUN for LOW/NULL sec RL cash players that dominate those areas), or they now buy from market at higher prices as there will be less of these minerals in high sec space (ISK SINK).
Ok, you have issues here.
Firstly, I'm not sure what your definition of "real manufacturers" are but it appears from this paragraph that they are people who manually gather the materials. The word "manufacturer" seems to have been miss-applied here.
Secondly, you don't seem to understand what an isk sink is. An isk sink is something that removes isk from the game. It is not something that removes isk from an individual players wallet and relocates it to another players wallet. It is not something that destroys a product that was purchased with isk.
Thirdly, you don't seem to understand the concept of opportunity cost and therefore appear to believe that minerals acquired from alternative sources somehow cost less than those purchased from the market.
I think that maybe you should spend less time posting on the forums and more time trying to improve yourself intellectually, because posting isn't going to improve your situation. |
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
106
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Posted - 2012.04.26 23:06:00 -
[93] - Quote
Corporate Envoy wrote:Anya Ohaya wrote:XEcuTioneRUK wrote: ... stuff ... With rants like that you should go join the occupy hippies. I'm sure it'd make sense to them. With rants like that you should go join the evolution denying, abortion doctor murdering, teapartying Christian Right. I'm sure it'd make sense to them.
You must be from America. In other parts of the world someone who supports the free market is not necessarily a bible thumper.
In the rest of the world, they churchy types tend to be left-leaning, and supporters of "social justice", "fairness", helping the poor and sick, and other WWJD kind of stuff. Right wing people outside America are more of the atheistic "people should help themselves" persuasion. |
Corporate Envoy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.04.27 09:23:00 -
[94] - Quote
Anya Ohaya wrote:Corporate Envoy wrote:Anya Ohaya wrote:XEcuTioneRUK wrote: ... stuff ... With rants like that you should go join the occupy hippies. I'm sure it'd make sense to them. With rants like that you should go join the evolution denying, abortion doctor murdering, teapartying Christian Right. I'm sure it'd make sense to them. You must be from America. In other parts of the world someone who supports the free market is not necessarily a bible thumper. In the rest of the world, they churchy types tend to be left-leaning, and supporters of "social justice", "fairness", helping the poor and sick, and other WWJD kind of stuff. Right wing people outside America are more of the atheistic "people should help themselves" persuasion.
I'm not american, I thought you were. Hence the teaparty remark.
As for the religious crowd being left leaning, it is simply not true. I'd say they cover the entire spectrum.
Myself, I'm agnostic and a supporter of fairness and social justice. Those are not dirty words, they are the reasons the scandinavian countries have stable economies and a high living standard. 'Free market' is mostly beneficial to those who already have plenty. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
69
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Posted - 2012.04.27 09:39:00 -
[95] - Quote
Ignorant is ignorant, no matter where and with whom it votes, preys, lives or breeds.
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Heila Loran
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.04.29 13:50:00 -
[96] - Quote
If CCP does not revert the Incursion nerf i predict PLEX price to drop to 400m ISK within the next few months. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
211
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Posted - 2012.04.29 14:54:00 -
[97] - Quote
Heila Loran wrote:If CCP does not revert the Incursion nerf i predict PLEX price to drop to 400m ISK within the next few months.
See, this? While I see this on one hand as blubbering from an incursion runner who is sad because the risk:reward of their isk fountain was fixed, I also see a price prediction with both price and timeline, and so for that, at least, I can respect it.
Of course it's flawed since by their own claims, backed up by data from CCP, the isk entering the economy through incursions is "tiny" which would suggest that there's no way it could have such an outsized effect on the economy.  |
Arugas Koken
Peregrine Guard
16
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Posted - 2012.04.30 03:23:00 -
[98] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Of course it's flawed since by their own claims, backed up by data from CCP, the isk entering the economy through incursions is "tiny" which would suggest that there's no way it could have such an outsized effect on the economy.
I wouldn't describe approximately one third of all ISK generated by bounty pay-outs as "tiny"... |
Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
69
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Posted - 2012.04.30 10:12:00 -
[99] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Heila Loran wrote:If CCP does not revert the Incursion nerf i predict PLEX price to drop to 400m ISK within the next few months. See, this? While I see this on one hand as blubbering from an incursion runner who is sad because the risk:reward of their isk fountain was fixed, I also see a price prediction with both price and timeline, and so for that, at least, I can respect it. Of course it's flawed since by their own claims, backed up by data from CCP, the isk entering the economy through incursions is "tiny" which would suggest that there's no way it could have such an outsized effect on the economy.
then again, even this "tiny" amount of ISK could have significant effect if focused on specific market segment. |
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
9
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Posted - 2012.04.30 10:36:00 -
[100] - Quote
Arugas Koken wrote:corestwo wrote:Of course it's flawed since by their own claims, backed up by data from CCP, the isk entering the economy through incursions is "tiny" which would suggest that there's no way it could have such an outsized effect on the economy. I wouldn't describe approximately one third of all ISK generated by bounty pay-outs as "tiny"...
Incursion runners either use their income (minus say 1 plex for the account) to upgrade their ships on the short term, or fund a PVP habit. Perhaps they have another pvp account, but all other extra accounts in general would be isk printing based chars.
As i think it's illogical for people to drop isk-printing accounts less incursion income only would lead to less PVP, not less accounts funded by PLEX.
Ontopic, unless there suddenly is a huge number of new players who kickstart their careers with PLEXes, PLEX prices will remain stable or, as the young become self-sustainable and start to consume plex themselves, rise in price. |
Heila Loran
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.04.30 12:11:00 -
[101] - Quote
Incursion income (and other comparable mainstream feature income) is basically the minimum wage of EVE. The time it takes to fund an account at minimum wage always has to be constant. A massive amount of players seem to be paying for their accounts with PLEX while earning their ISK at minimum wage. If minimum wage increases PLEX price has to increase because otherwise a huge amount of players would switch from RL money to PLEX for funding their accounts. If minimum wage decreases PLEX price also has to decrease because otherwise a huge amount of players would switch from PLEX to RL money.
Among the players who use PLEX for subscription incursion runners have to use the largest share of their income to buy PLEX. On the other hand there are the in-game rich players which use methods of earning ISK that are way more effective than incursions. Those players often have like 10 to 30 accounts. Those accounts are funded with PLEX and the players donGÇÖt even notice it in their wallet. They would keep those accounts even if PLEX rises to 1b ISK. However at that rate most incursion runners would have switched to a RL money subscription. |
Johnny Frecko
Fruidian Logic
18
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Posted - 2012.04.30 12:49:00 -
[102] - Quote
Incursions isn't even close to minimum wage in eve.
It's not even close to the minimum wage of plex-buying players.
Nor can you even say there's a "minimum" wage, as that changes heavily based on skillpoints, active time playing a day and experience(add to that personal education, IQ etc.)
Incursion income is "tiny" as was said before. CCP did mention that bounties from missions are WAY greater(they even shoed by how much, but i can't be bothered to re-check).
So if *most* people mine and run missions in eve, that means that those are "most" of the people that buy plex.
We also know that the plex market is roughly 25-30% of the eve's market volume.
that would also mean that according to people's expectations - Incursion pilots should have been buying roughly 4 plex per month to explain such demand.
Incursions are *semi* responsible to high plex prices, The inflation itself and the increase in the agregated demand is far more meaningful.
tl;dr incursions won't magically lower plex prices. nor did they magically increase it. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
550
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:00:00 -
[103] - Quote
so we're over three months later now. where's the plummet? ccp took my money and i'm space poor so i was really looking forward to cheap plexes 
. |
Private Pineapple
Rifterlings
Ushra'Khan
205
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Posted - 2012.07.05 16:01:00 -
[104] - Quote
You are a thread necromancer? You'll be hearing from my henchmen soon.
You will be dealt with.
I am the Kingpin of the Crime and Punishment forum.
I am the rightful heir to the CSM 8 throne.
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
550
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Posted - 2012.07.05 16:03:00 -
[105] - Quote
Bring it on.
. |
JohnathanGalt
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.07.05 17:33:00 -
[106] - Quote
It looks like the cheapest PLEX in Jita right now is 477 million. So that is a drop of 4.6% since the thread was started. Still no causation proven AT ALL. OP took a wild guess, put no conditions on it, and is currently correct. Who says what next week will bring though. |
Bethany Ring
Reverberation Inc
3
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Posted - 2012.07.08 14:44:00 -
[107] - Quote
JohnathanGalt wrote:It looks like the cheapest PLEX in Jita right now is 477 million. So that is a drop of 4.6% since the thread was started. Still no causation proven AT ALL. OP took a wild guess, put no conditions on it, and is currently correct. Who says what next week will bring though.
I think you are using the definition of plummet incorrect. OP is was not correct at all.
plum-+met (plmt)
n.
1. See plumb bob.
2. Something that weighs down or oppresses; a burden.
intr.v. plum-+met-+ed, plum-+met-+ing, plum-+mets
1. To fall straight down; plunge.
2. To decline suddenly and steeply: Stock prices plummeted
Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence.
Albert Einstein |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
249
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Posted - 2012.07.08 18:13:00 -
[108] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:i predict plex will go up
at some time in the indefinite future
Looks like your prediction so far is FAIL  PLEX prices are stuck in the 470-490 area for the past few months.
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
Like I Give A F--K
1431
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Posted - 2012.07.09 02:07:00 -
[109] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:i predict plex will go up
at some time in the indefinite future Looks like your prediction so far is FAIL PLEX prices are stuck in the 470-490 area for the past few months.
Almost as bad as your predictions concerning you unsubcribing over incursions.
burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc.
Armada Assail
20
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Posted - 2012.07.09 07:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:i predict plex will go up
at some time in the indefinite future Looks like your prediction so far is FAIL PLEX prices are stuck in the 470-490 area for the past few months.
Biomass yourselve already!!!!!! |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
242
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:47:00 -
[111] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:i predict plex will go up
at some time in the indefinite future Looks like your prediction so far is FAIL PLEX prices are stuck in the 470-490 area for the past few months. Almost as bad as your predictions concerning you unsubcribing over incursions. burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn.
i approve this post
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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