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Improved cloaking device II blueprint

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Gajanina	Posted - 2008.10.11 11:43:00 - [1] I got a question. Is it possible to buy somewhere Improved cloaking device II BPO. I am tired to invent it over and over. I so somewhere in history for sale nice BPC, but I can¦t find anyoneelse. Did anyone knew about this T2 BPO or bether BPC than from invention? Thanks
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs	Posted - 2008.10.11 12:53:00 - [2] Edited by: Clansworth on 11/10/2008 12:53:04 If these got distributed via the old Tech 2 BPO lottery system, it would be possible that they are out there. However, if there IS someone holding/using one, it would make a lot more sense to simply produce the modules instead of make copies. (PE-0 Production time: about 3 1/2 hours, vs. single-run copy time: about 6 1/2 hours), So I wouldn't expect to see any non-invented BPC's anytime soon (or ever?) POS Personal Storage
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.10.11 19:05:00 - [3] Also, I should add that the few that do still exist are in private hands and would probably sell for tens of billions of isk each, since no more are ever going to be added to the game. Unless you buy one of these priceless relics, you're stuck with invention, I'm afraid. --- DIY copying in Liekuri 20:1 mineral compression Eve Online folding@home team
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs	Posted - 2008.10.11 20:50:00 - [4] Something to keep in mind though, is that the production rate from BPO's is far outstripped by demand, especially on items such as cloaks. I'd bet that well organized, you could make more profit off of running a few cuncurrent invention based production lines, than you would on a single BPO line. POS Personal Storage
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.10.12 01:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Clansworth Something to keep in mind though, is that the production rate from BPO's is far outstripped by demand, especially on items such as cloaks. I'd bet that well organized, you could make more profit off of running a few cuncurrent invention based production lines, than you would on a single BPO line. It is not that expensive to invent cloaks but it is a hassle, I think those that would be after the T2 BPO are those that want it more for convenience than profitability.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.12 08:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Gajanina I got a question. Is it possible to buy somewhere Improved cloaking device II BPO. I am tired to invent it over and over. I so somewhere in history for sale nice BPC, but I can¦t find anyoneelse. Did anyone knew about this T2 BPO or bether BPC than from invention? Thanks All existing T2 BPO are in the hand of some player. To get one you need several billions. If you have them you can regularly check the Sell order forum to see if some BPO that interest you is being sold, or ask in the trade channel or even put up a buy order in the Want ads forum.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.10.12 13:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Venkul Mul To get one you need several billions. Depends on the T2 BPO, some sell for less than that, and many people bought theirs for 400-500m. And even at that low price some of them are unlikely to payback, ever. While you don't need a lot of isk to buy a T2 BPO, and you don't even have to wait long to get the one you want in the sell orders forum. But what you do have to do, is pay far more than they're worth, in terms of their ability to ever repay their capital cost.
RandomDudette	Posted - 2008.10.13 13:09:00 - [8] Originally by: Lord Fitz Depends on the T2 BPO, some sell for less than that, and many people bought theirs for 400-500m. And even at that low price some of them are unlikely to payback, ever. While you don't need a lot of isk to buy a T2 BPO, and you don't even have to wait long to get the one you want in the sell orders forum. But what you do have to do, is pay far more than they're worth, in terms of their ability to ever repay their capital cost. A BPO is an asset, not an expense. After you make 200mil you can resell the bpo and get your 500mil back.
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.10.13 13:40:00 - [9] Originally by: RandomDudette A BPO is an asset, not an expense. After you make 200mil you can resell the bpo and get your 500mil back. There is an element of risk, you could buy a T2 BPO and CCP might change something to significantly devalue that investment. When you purchase a BPO you have to be prepared that the value of that BPO might dramatically reduce in a short period of time, such are the risks in a MMO.
RandomDudette	Posted - 2008.10.13 18:09:00 - [10] Originally by: Veldya Originally by: RandomDudette A BPO is an asset, not an expense. After you make 200mil you can resell the bpo and get your 500mil back. There is an element of risk, you could buy a T2 BPO and CCP might change something to significantly devalue that investment. When you purchase a BPO you have to be prepared that the value of that BPO might dramatically reduce in a short period of time, such are the risks in a MMO. I was not saying there was no risk. But calculating the price paid for a BPO as an expense rather than an asses is a bad way of doing it. Something could happen that results in an increase in value as well as a decrease.
Xavier Zedicus Zardoz Incorporated	Posted - 2008.10.14 00:57:00 - [11] Originally by: RandomDudette Originally by: Veldya Originally by: RandomDudette A BPO is an asset, not an expense. After you make 200mil you can resell the bpo and get your 500mil back. There is an element of risk, you could buy a T2 BPO and CCP might change something to significantly devalue that investment. When you purchase a BPO you have to be prepared that the value of that BPO might dramatically reduce in a short period of time, such are the risks in a MMO. I was not saying there was no risk. But calculating the price paid for a BPO as an expense rather than an asses isnull a bad way of doing it. Something could happen that results in an increase in value as well as a decrease. Doubtfull
Brock Nelson Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.14 07:14:00 - [12] I love it when people say "i doubt it" and not back that up... Drones \| Rigs \| Ships BPO and BPC
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.10.14 11:10:00 - [13] Edited by: Veldya on 14/10/2008 11:12:48 Originally by: RandomDudette Originally by: Veldya I was not saying there was no risk. But calculating the price paid for a BPO as an expense rather than an asses is a bad way of doing it. Something could happen that results in an increase in value as well as a decrease. It is hard to classify BPOs. Some assets get written off over a period of time so if you buy one for investment you have to factor the overhead of writing off the asset over a period of time. BPOs do not wear so they don't exactly depreciate, however, as an evolving MMO it is predictable that within a given period of time what is valuable today may be very different in 2 or 3 years time. Will CCP come out with T3, Jove tech, etc? What likely period of time are we looking at? It is unlikely T2 will lose all value, but it will be significantly reduced if more advanced tech comes around. If you estimate that when you buy a BPO for 5 billion isk and it's life expectancy is 2 years where it will then be worth significantly less, say 1 billion then you have to write off 4 billion over 2 years, that puts an overhead on your manufacturing. If nothing ever changes and T2 never loses value then you have an asset that does not get written off, it will likely appreciate as T2 BPOs are slowly being destroyed via conflict. It is the kind of risk analysis that goes on everyday in the corporate world today, EVE doesn't fit in precisely but many financial principals are very similar in EVE.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.14 13:54:00 - [14] Originally by: RandomDudette Originally by: Veldya Originally by: RandomDudette A BPO is an asset, not an expense. After you make 200mil you can resell the bpo and get your 500mil back. There is an element of risk, you could buy a T2 BPO and CCP might change something to significantly devalue that investment. When you purchase a BPO you have to be prepared that the value of that BPO might dramatically reduce in a short period of time, such are the risks in a MMO. I was not saying there was no risk. But calculating the price paid for a BPO as an expense rather than an asses is a bad way of doing it. Something could happen that results in an increase in value as well as a decrease. It's not worth the effort to factor that into your calculations. With invention as it is in place, any such increase in value will be temporary. And I see no way that they'll nerf invention to the benefit of t2 BPOs. Instead it's much more likely that CCP will nerf t2 BPOs further. Recall, for example, that they've been toying with the idea of having the ME and PE of the t1 BPC somehow affect the invented t2 BPC.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.10.14 14:39:00 - [15] Edited by: Lord Fitz on 14/10/2008 14:42:54 Originally by: RandomDudette Originally by: Lord Fitz Depends on the T2 BPO, some sell for less than that, and many people bought theirs for 400-500m. And even at that low price some of them are unlikely to payback, ever. While you don't need a lot of isk to buy a T2 BPO, and you don't even have to wait long to get the one you want in the sell orders forum. But what you do have to do, is pay far more than they're worth, in terms of their ability to ever repay their capital cost. A BPO is an asset, not an expense. After you make 200mil you can resell the bpo and get your 500mil back. At current rates, a BPO that costs 2b, will take up to 2.4 years to make that 200m. While you have your 2b capital tied up. You also stand a good chance that it will devalue if invention is boosted, or be removed etc, so it's a risky investment, where ALL of the money making potential is in hoping it stays rare and increases in value purely on that basis. The depreciation is an expense, if the amount you can sell it for is less than the amount you paid for it. On the other hand, a T1 capital BPO, will hold to the NPC value quite well, and sell for above that when researched, and make a lot more money for a lot less outlay. Quote: Something could happen that results in an increase in value as well as a decrease. A hulk BPO was at its peak, able to pump out well over 20 billion isk per month in pure profit. It is now able to make just over 1b / month profit. It sells for 70 billion+ isk. The reason, invention. As more RP enter the game, RP devalue, thus decreasing the cost of invention. While alot of T2 BPOs are close to hitting the floor for their value, ship BPOs have a way to go yet. Most ammo BPOs have their capital value based simply on their limited availability, because an investment that can take over a decade to payback in a game that may not be around that long, is a foolish investment for any other reason. CCP will only boost invention further, they're hardly likely to nerf it. This is the 'end' to T2 BPOs as it should be, not because CCP removed them, or added more. But because they're simply not very effective as a vehicle for money making compared to other ventures. That is how invention was designed, simply and brilliantly.

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