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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 09:17:00 - [1] Originally by: Lijhal i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!! Tolerating rare use is different from seeing this become more common. Of course if that bug/feature never existed there would be 0 whines about it now. And I don't believe anybody who claims that ghost training made him start playing EVE. And if GT was all that kept someone in game - bye bye. Originally by: Lijhal So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options: 1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month Might be a good idea. Originally by: Lijhal 2. the option to merge existing characters into one Bad idea for several reasons - main one being that it is too troublesome to begin with. Originally by: Lijhal 3. Skill Queque Won't happen - and for good reasons. Main one being that skill queues make it way too efficient for char farmers to mass produce chars for sale. Also this is way overestimated. So your skill finishes in the middle of the night and you loose a couple hours before you start the next skill - big deal (not). People talk like it is important to have trained every single hour - it really is not. Originally by: Lijhal 4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills Again makes it too easy to mass produce chars for sale. Also would encourage people to fill all char slots so they can reap maximum SP per account. EVE does not need more alts. Originally by: Lijhal 1. More content, more ships There's plenty of ships already. I'd like them to concentrate on some other stuff for a few patches. More content - always good. But the main content of EVE is and always was - other people. NPCs can't really compete with that. Originally by: Lijhal more missions Rather make the current number more clever and varied. Originally by: Lijhal more 0.0 Not much point - will all be claimed on day 1. Originally by: Lijhal please stay unique and no not become something similiar like SoE ... goddamned! is this so hard ? CCP/EVE is nothing like SoE/SWG. Threads like this one is just your regular whine threadnaught. The change is not evil. It won't destroy the game. Half the guys who say they will cancel all accounts won't. Most of those that do won't be missed. I'm with those who wondered why this didn't happen sooner. This could/should have happened 2004 - so just be happy about the up to 4 years of extra time of ghost training you had. Anybody who quits over this - good riddance. The game will be better without your type. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 09:28:00 - [2] Originally by: Mike Vandenberg Right now I run 3 accounts. By the end of this year it will be only 1. Why? Because I cannot Ghost-Train anymore. -2 accounts Mike Vandenberg Your "tone" suggests this is a bad thing (and whether it is for CCPs bottom line or not - shrug - they know best). But to me that sounds good. A bunch of alts gone that don't get played much - perhaps kept in incubation to be sold later - hurray. Of course when you say "run 3 accounts" you made it sound all impressive - but actually you don't usually "run" those 2 accounts or GT would not be an issue for you. So it's anything between 1.5 to 2.x accounts - depending on your percentage of GT months. Somebody else canceling 6 accounts due to GT - probably only a net loss of ca 1-3 accounts. I would love to see a statistic about how many people threatening to quit over something actually do go ahead with it and never come back. I'm sure it's less than 100% - but could be anything between 10 or 90. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.12.22 11:34:00 - [3] Originally by: Diana Pride Eve sure is different on that side. If I want to participate in every aspect of the game, I can't cover that with just one account (or character). I need to have alts, and as I can't train them on the same account (at the same time), I need multiple accounts. None of the above is true (except for the "(at the same time)"). I have 3 chars on one account. Never had more than 1 account, don't intend to ever have more than 1. 1 for pvp 1 for industry/management 1 scientist Thus I can participate in all aspects of the game. All 3 chars are specialized - my combat char couldn't mine to save his live. My scientist can't fly combat ships. Only drawback is that I had to train learning and category skills (electronics, engineering) at least to some degree 3 times - compared to having it all in one char. OTOH I gained the ability to keep my specialized chars in different locations - so it's a fair deal. It's true I can't haul and mine or tackle and destroy at the same time - but I'm not playing a MMO to play by myself anyway. That's what you have corp/alliance mates and voice comm for. In other words - you have all the options with that 1 account. The options have consequences. Nobody forces you to have several accounts and my example proves that it is not necessary in order to be able to do everything EVE makes available. If you do get several accounts it's because you prefer to work solo and/or want to train faster. Again - options with consequences. Your choice. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.12.22 12:27:00 - [4] Originally by: Roto Rooter Originally by: Oliver Price Wah, I can't train skills for free anymore. Ah, another clueless poster who didn't bother to read the thread. Unsubbed training was not free. The part outside your subscription period sure was. No amount of thread reading makes a difference to that. Yes - you started your skill withing the paid period. Then accumulated SP during that period - all paid for - and then sub ended - and any SP beyond that were indeed - free. Originally by: Roto Rooter It only "completed" the current training step and required the account to be paid up to start the training and to get the benefit of the "completion." What don't you understand about that? It's easy to understand that that's how you want it to work. It's also how it used to work. Now it doesn't any more and CCP had their reasons (very unlikely to be irrational either). What don't you understand about that? Their expectations about the consequences might well be wrong - but then they will fix that themselves. "Hey boss, I have the latest numbers here - ending GT didn't bring the expected improvements in paying subs - we're actually loosing some account-months that can't be explained by other factors in our shiny spreadsheet". "Okey dokey - was worth a try - send memo to marketing to prepare glorious GT-Now-A-Feature (TM) campaign. Tie that in with targeted re-activation email offers - the usual". Or: "Hey boss, ending GT is working within expected parameters. Lost roughly the expected amount of account-months and gained the higher re-newal rates we hoped for. Net result is 0.7% extra income due to that change alone". "Good work, congrats to controlling for the idea - you deserve your bonus." Originally by: Roto Rooter Many of us view the training as having been bought and paid for by the time we click to start a training step. Understood. But that's just an opinion and it's not CCPs obviously. And CCP owns the computers and the code and employs the devs - so their opinion wins. Originally by: Roto Rooter The "completion" is just a calendar date before which the new step can't be used. No it's not. You can interrupt that training yourself any time - to train another skill for example. You keep any SPs until the interruption. In this case the interruption is the end of your paying for the service (actually it's 3 days beyond that end IIRC - right?). Originally by: Oliver Price In this view the unsubbed training nerf actually stole value from the player base while at the same time hurting CCP's reactivation stats. The first part is silly grasping at argumentative straws, the latter should make you relax if actually true. If your assumption (based on hopes and hearsay - not actual data) are true - then CCP itself - out of their own self-interest - will re-introduce GT as a feature - regardless of any btching and moaning on this forum. They have the figures - you don't. To claim to know better than CCP what is actually hurting or helping their business is silly. Originally by:* Oliver Price It was a huge draw benefiting CCP by bringing ppl back to paid status. That's why it's so irrational that they nerfed it. Or it wasn't the huge draw you claim it was and CCP is not acting irrational - but in their own best interest. And they have the figures to base decisions on - you only have your anger, assumptions and anecdotal pseudo-"evidence" of reading what some people say here on the forums. I'm far from being against having GT - I'm just not surprised that CCP ended it finally. I expected that years ago. I don't know why I let the anger and irrationality on this forum draw me into these silly debates. ;-) --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.12.23 00:07:00 - [5] Yeah - it is possible that this thing backfires - though don't assume so just because some people here say so on the forum. Even an epic threadnought like this involves only a small fraction of the player base. Most players don't read the forums much if at all. Some percentage of the playerbase will still not even know what GT was. Any new players of recent weeks never knew it was ever there and wouldn't expect it to be. To the guy above who won because he's playing less after deactivating some of his 9 accounts. That's great - win everywhere. :-) I win too - because I find it annoying when people have a zillion accounts (not that I would keep anybody from doing so - just don't like it). Regarding the patch note - doesn't prove what you think. GT never was a bug in the sense that a planned feature does not work. It's just a (likely originally unintended) sideeffect that CCP choose not to bother about to prevent for a long time - because yes - preventing GT probably needed a few lines of additional code and as long as people didn't use it much CCP shrugged it off. I assume that this got out of hand probably - with many people only paying alternate months to raise chars. It's easy to imagine that some people paid 1-2 months to train a bunch of base skills - then pay alternate months to train high skills and then trade/sell off the char. That would explain why they now decided to end this. I also don't think that CCP would let pride get into the way if this really ***es too many people off. It's not a big deal. "Dear EVE players, we finally ended GT because we noticed that some players abused this to farm characters in a way that wasn't fair to us and the rest of the players. But we underestimated how much this change also affects our loyal players. We listened to what you had to say and decided to re-introduce GT as an officialy supported feature now." No problem at all. Easy spin. If that doesn't happen it will not be out of misplaced pride but because you guys over-estimate the downside for CCP based on this thread. I don't get what the big deal is though. Either this really has a lot of effect because you guys did it a lot - then CCP is right and can easily take the hit from a few lost accounts to gain the many extra months that will now be paid. Or it was a rare thing - then CCP would have been wrong to invest anything in this change - but it would also just affect you guys once in a blue moon and this threadnought would be the most silly waste of time. You are not paying for a particular number of days - you are paying for a typical month - that includes downtime and patch days. You're not getting back money for february either. ;-) And why does anybody even worry about 1 extra day (because of a lost patch day or whatever)? That's something like 50 cents. All of us have wasted 50 cents many times on stupid stuff (apologies to any players who might come from countries where Ç/$ exchange for a lot of local money). Any starving students will likely be already on GTCs. We're talking literally* about small change here. The whole monthly fee is the equivalent of 2 movies - or 1 movie plus popcorn/soda. So as long as we get at least 4 hours of quality entertainment per month out of this we're getting our moneys worth (YMMV). :-) And if anybody multiplies that by getting 9 accounts - that's your choice. And while CCP may drop a tear about closing some of these accounts down - I like about people getting rid of alt accounts. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.12.27 22:02:00 - [6] Edited by: Glengrant on 27/12/2008 22:02:03 Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Im going back to WAR (run in Europe by GOA) purely because: If WAR gives you overall better gaming experience then this is the right decision anyway. But if something like the removal of GT (or the spin CCP sells it with) is enough to make you quit a game that you otherwise enjoyed playing then I'm sorry to have to predict that this is very likely to happen with WAR or any other game too. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson a) CCPs attitude to arbitrarily changing a major feature of the game, and then claiming it to be a 'bugfix'. Care to mention what you are talking about? Please tell me you don't mean the nano-fix? I have trouble taking anybody serious who thinks BS should be able to fly at Interceptor speeds. That fix was overdue and long expected. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson b) Apparent lack of action on the starbase exploit. That horse has been flogged beyond dead already. IMHO it's safe to assume that restoring old DBs and looking through mountains of data to follow money trails and verifying what's legit or not is a time-consuming activity. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson c) [...]WAR / GOAs customer service [...] In fact they are in some danger of being moved from my 'laughable customer support' category to 'mediocre customer support' category [...] Err - so your argument is that you're quitting one game due to some alleged customer service issues - not to switch to some game that is free of that but actually just improving from "laughable" to "mediocre"? You lost me there. ;-) Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson And in all my DAOC and WAR experiences GOA / Mythic have never openly lied to their customer base. I may not agree with all their decisions and behaviour - but they do at least have the decency to tell us about changes first and the reasons why they are doing it. Hm - so you decide what game you play based mostly on whether the company does a bit of marketing spin (as they all do BTW)? Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson d) CCPs insistence on billing in Euros across europe (including non-euro countries) makes EVE very expensive for anyone in the UK. That the pound has been loosing value due to recent financial market turmoil is hardly CCPs fault. Whether they charge in EUR or Pound makes no difference - as they would charge pounds according to the exchange rate- same as your bank does when it exchanges your pounds to EUR. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson The Sterling-Euro exchange rate currently means CCP have effectively priced themselves out of the market for possibly many years to come. I very much doubt that CCP priced EVE out of the UK market for years to come - but you're certainly wrong about the "themselves" part. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson In the time it takes me to train one LV skill in EVE it is technically possible to level a char in WAR from level 1 to level 40 (level cap)! Which says very sorry things about WAR doesn't it? Everybody and his brother at max level within a few weeks? What's the point of having advancement at all? Just have all chars at same level from beginning and get rid of char development. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson So I am happily hanging up my boots for a while until EVE becomes affordable once again, Why for a while? CCP will be the same company who's business practices you so dislike and EVE will still not allow anybody to ever max out all skills ever. The pound/euro exchange will recover - but that's the only one of your grievances that will change. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson and until CCP have learned they cant just alienate vast swathes of the player base by making major changes with no warning or explanation. I don't remember a single change ever that came without warning or explanation. All changes were on sisi before release and people always discussed them at least weeks before they hit TQ. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Fly safe everyone! Thanks have fun --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.12.27 22:12:00 - [7] Originally by: oilio Well, that's my last character subscription that runs out in a couple of hours. Won't be able to post anymore, but will still read the forums Why bother? Originally by: oilio I'm already ú30 per month better off as a result. I'll watch the forums to see if it looks like Eve (and CCP's attitude) improve, but I very much doubt it. I've seen many improvements during the last 5 years. If they don't look like improvements to you then EVE is simply not the right game for you. I hope you find a game that you like, Originally by: oilio We'll see what 2009 brings for Eve. My guess is that all the wonderful things scheduled for March aren't going to be anywhere near as wonderful as people are hoping (Faction Warfare anyone? Our recent "Industrial Expansion" (EXPANSION! HA!)) Insofar as Industry goes - agreed - not the biggest and best patch ever. But people have been crying for CCP to seriously improve lag for years- and now that they did some people just whine about something else and act like nothing happened. Originally by: oilio Anyway, good luck to all. Thanks - same to you. Originally by: oilio Just remember how much you're paying CCP, The equivalent of 2 movies. Originally by: oilio and what exactly you get for that money More than 4 hours of quality entertainment per month - so I'm fine with the bang-for-the-buck situation. I'm lucky to be within the Ç-zone - I can see how things might look less good from outside given recent exchange rate changes. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.12.27 22:35:00 - [8] Yes - I wrote too much in this thread. :-) Reducing reply rate and wordage now. have fun --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.09.08 11:13:00 - [9] Wow - this silly thread is still going on - the undead are amongst us. So CCP wanted to make a change and marketing did its blaa blah. Big deal. Get over it folks. I bet you don't bombard Unilever every time washing powder gets ever more miraculous attributes. Spreading lies and obfuscations is half of what marketing gets paid for. Tragic - but fact of life. Just take everything with a grain of salt. It's ggood training not to believe every promise. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE

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