Originally by: Zinnn

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chaktil a ban would mean they'd have to be paying attention to this thread....

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Originally by: INF Wonderwoman

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Originally by: Triksterism

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I would like to compare this to ice cream. Ice cream is delicious, this is not. Fin.

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Props for the MST3K sig!!!

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Originally by: Alexander Ronay

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I took a fairly long hiatus from the game (at least it was to me) And knowing that when I came back, I would have a nice long skill out of the way encouraged me to come back. Without that extra incentive, I may not have come back at all.

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Originally by: Liranan

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Originally by: Triksterism

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So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.

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Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.

Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.

I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP.

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Originally by: Carsidava

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I'm going to keep posting this until someone from CCP gives answers.

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Originally by: Velda Chulai

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Edited by: Velda Chulai on 14/10/2008 05:14:46
Lets make up an example of how training might work:

You gain 1500 points per hour, and you have a 1500 point skill. This means that, if I'm training a skill, it will be completed in an hour. The only thing that changes this is if I decide to stop training that skill.
So I reach 750 points - at that point my character is credited with 750 points toward that skill. Now I start training Skill B, which is a 3000 point skill - two hours to train. I complete it, but once i hit 3000 points, the client polls teh server to confirm the "Stop training" action. The server replies with "Yep, you're training is complete."

At no point were there any excessive database transactions made; everything simply worked and it was schedule based. The actual points are credited, but only when I directed the server to cease training.

At this point, I decide to complete training on the original skill. With 750 points credited towards the skill and no changes to my learning skill, I can be as certain as teh server that my skill will finish in 30 minutes. Once again I go back to "training" with a pre-determined completion time on the server side.

Are you now trying to explain to us that this is not how it worked?

The answer to this will be interesting I'm sure.

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Originally by: Serenity Steele

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Surely 30 pages in 24hrs is a record on the forums?

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Originally by: Haldane Fisher

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Edited by: Haldane Fisher on 14/10/2008 05:33:54

Originally by: INF Wonderwoman

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Originally by: Triksterism

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BEHOLD! THE GHOST TRAIN!

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Thank you Ghost Train!!!

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Truly a roflmao moment

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Originally by: Alexander Ronay

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Originally by: Carsidava

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31 pages and no replies. 49 pages in the other thread, and only a devblog filled with lies. I post again:

Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.

If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?

Why are only skill points being hit?

Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.

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Heh, well maybe they figured out they ****** their PR when they posted the dev blog like they did. Maybe they're giving their response a little more thought this time?

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Originally by: Triksterism

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Perhaps we'll get another humorous reference to snowflakes.

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Originally by: Vietone

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Originally by: Mohenna

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Edited by: Mohenna on 14/10/2008 15:46:33
Teh internet is broken!!11 Nobody used the wayback machine yet. I have to fix it. See the past versions of the guide in their full truth:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080212211449/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/20080122061230/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/20071229095941/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/20071206164722/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp

...That said... I support the change. PAY YOU CHEAPSKATES!! (yeah, their PR skill sux, CCP truly are players: they minimized their charisma :D)

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It doesnt matter if it was in the player guide or not. They never intended it to be an option, they only stated how it worked. IF they did intend the game to function like that, it would have been in many more places than just the player guide.

I bet over half the eve community didnt even know you could ghost train. Cause I never heard of it and neither have the majority of people I know in the game. Therefore, I look at it like this, fewer people, less lag.

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Originally by: Inanna Zuni

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Comes home and finds the threads still going strong nearly 24 hours later ...

Originally by: Dlightfull

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I never payd irl money for eve, always isk, and i was able to keep 1 account active always, while 2 others were active 7-8months/year, rest of time on ghost training. The first account is the 1 i make isk on and the other 2 are pvp characters-the cahracters i have fun with. Now, with these changes, i can't keep even 2 accounts active and what's the point in keeping the money making 1 if i don't have fun on it?

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Isn't this the exact reason why this needs doing? If I translate the first phrase to English ... "I never paid real money for Eve"

So why should you get something for nothing? CCP hf are a COMPANY who want to make money to pay their staff (the developers who make this game need occasional food and beer and a place to sleep other than at their desks!) and a business needs an INCOME. If you aren't giving them an income then what gives you any right to complain about them changing their mind on how their product works - which most of us PAY FOR and, indeed, a quite happy to do so as we enjoy PLAYING the game.

The way this reads is that your first character ("The first account is the 1 i make isk on") is actually just an ISK-FARMER and not a player at all! Really??

Pay to play. Do it right.

IZ

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Originally by: Triksterism

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Originally by: Derdre Esme

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and does something similar is planned for "ghost trading" ?

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http://www.isdsgn.com/karlimages/ghostrideyourwhip.jpg

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Originally by: BIind

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Originally by: Deadly Hobbitses

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CCP Wrangler: The only avenue left for CCP to regain any amount of credibility regarding this issue is to implement a skill training queue. ONLY this would provide adequate justification for these drastic measures as the ability to queue up multiple skills to train while you do not pay would be much more of an advantage of note than the current ability to have whatever skill is currently training when your subscription lapses complete.

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link please

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Originally by: Shard Merchant

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Mate, this can't be compared to an exploit.

First: An exploit is the circumvention of game mechanics for personal gain. This might include personal gain, but it isn't circumventing anything. There is nothing in EVE to suggest that character training should be linked to the status of your account. At most you can infer that you need an active account to change skills.

Second: This is the equivalent of saying asteroids in asteroid belts are too close together, allowing ships to mine multiple rocks without moving. Its been around since the creation of the game. Sure, you can claim it was unintended because its not a feature CCP added after the game went live, but if you go back far enough, someone somewhere had to make a conscious decision that things should be this way.

Third: Consider insta-jump bookmarks. They were a blatant circumvention of game mechanics for personal gain; ie, an exploit. Like this, it too became widespread among the playerbase. It was completely unintentional in the sense that: CCP never explicitly added as a feature and that it was never a part of the game from the start. Yet, they chose to completely legitimize it afterward.

Ghost training isn't an exploit, period. Whether its unintentional or a bug is up for discussion, but entirely irrelevant. CCP have historically proven that clear exploits and metagaming can become legitimized as "emergent gameplay". This seems to imply that CCP at least consider whether something is good before deciding to change it.

Whether this is a good gameplay mechanic or not is also up for discussion and debate, but then, why aren't focusing the priority changes from the top?

- We have passive Research Point gain even if the account is inactive.
- We also get the benefit of implants long after we lose them if we remember to set a long skill before getting podded.
- We also have a situation where jump clones are not being used for their originally intended purpose, but to protect implants.

Ghost training is not only the most ambiguous in regards to effect on gameplay, but its the only situation that has any financial relevance.

The evidence that this has next to nothing to do with gameplay is overwhelming, but you support CCP's party line (given by news posts and dev blogs) by repeating the words exploit, unintentional and bug.

You and others choose to look the other way because you can't stand the idea of CCP damaging the player experience for more money and little else. I salute your naivety Catherine Fraiser. o7

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