Originally by: oilio

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Originally by: Soma Khan

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Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.

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Hmm... troll.

You don't seem to understand what the issue is here. The issue of ghost-training is secondary. The issue is dropping a significant (and negative) change in the service onto people, and initially making out that it's for "balance" and "fairness" - which is patently garbage - followed by censorship of the forums when customers complain that the service is now not as good as it was.

If you don't think that CUSTOMERS should complain when the service is degraded, then fair enough - seems stupid to me, but whatever...

...except you probably do understand, but enjoy trolling to see if you can get a rise out of the angry customers who are posting here.

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Originally by: James Marshalll

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Originally by: Soma Khan

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Originally by: James Marshalll

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Originally by: Soma Khan

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Originally by: oilio

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This sucks.

I am cancelling both subscriptions right now (or would be, if I could get to my account details - seems to have seized up).

...

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Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.

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actually you are wrong. There is no change in the database footprint since they don't delete unsubbed accounts, nor do they delete the assets of those characters. So in reality, beside the forum pollution, nothing is gained on the performance side of the database by people quiting over this..

well I mean other then the fact that lost revenue from people quiting might make them have to fire a database engineer or two..

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Database accessing is the important part here.

Leaner and meaner CCP. I like it.

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which has already been proven pretty much to be BS.

The way skill training worked as I understood it was that there was a one time connection to the database for the start, and one for the finish of the skill. There is no concurrent connection to the database for every skill in training, and if there is someone needs to load a gun and shoot whoever designed their database infrastructure.

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Lord Fuzzywig

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You see, if it was a bug, both servers would have had it removed, perhaps even at the same time.

There's no reason you would leave a bug on one server and remove it from another.

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First: This thread demonstrates a very good reason to let this particular sleeping dog lie: the almost hysterical anger of those people exploiting it when the free ride ends.

Secondly: They didn't just say "It's a bug!" like the window position UI bug. The statement was: "Ghost Training was an unintended feature... While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug." So it's an unintended feature that basically, IN EFFECT was a bug. It's a much more nuanced statement than your interpretation would suggest.

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Originally by: Hun Jakuza

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Gedhay

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Kuangdianbai

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I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years

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So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?

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it was removed from the player guid few hours ago

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Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.

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Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.

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Originally by: Huan Hunglong

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Edited by: Huan Hunglong on 14/10/2008 19:41:05

Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Baihuigau

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Kuangdianbai

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I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years

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So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?

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im pretty sure iv seen it on some eve advertisements as well, i should try and find my old eve box manual see if it says it there.

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Well I'm pretty sure that nobody has been able to find it in any eve advertisements or on their eve box manual.

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It WAS on this page:

http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp

But CCP have conveniently changed that page over night.

It used to say: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive

But as you can see, its now been changed.

edit: Screenshot found: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg





I have no problem with CCP making this change... I wish they wouldnt blatently lie to us about the reason behind it. It is NOT a bug, its been a DOCUMENTENTED FEATURE for years!!!


You really think your customers are ******ed dont you CCP?

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Originally by: James Marshalll

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Hun Jakuza

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.

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Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.

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As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows.

=Fail.

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as has been pointed out before:

If CCP didn't want people to use the feature, they wouldn't have put it in a new user guide. There is a huge difference between a production or personal use computer guide telling you what happens when a problem occurs, and how to send that information to the company, then a game studio putting ingame bugs they don't want people using in a new player guide.

but gg's.

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Originally by: Carsidava

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Eighty-one pages and no response from CCP. We're being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I'm going to post this again, fully realizing that CCP is ignoring us and just going to go blindly ahead with this ridiculous plan.

Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.

If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?

Why are only skill points being hit?

Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.

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Originally by: Lallante

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Originally by: Carsidava

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Eighty-one pages and no response from CCP. We're being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I'm going to post this again, fully realizing that CCP is ignoring us and just going to go blindly ahead with this ridiculous plan.

Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.

If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?

Why are only skill points being hit?

Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.

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Theres a response saying they are monitoring this thread closely. Im sure they want to have a proper meeting tommorrow, you know, during the day time, before they make any official response.

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Originally by: Sahara Eternity

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Originally by: Lallante

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That may be true, but CCP have never said they didnt want us to use the unintended feature while it was possible to do so. In fact, the implication is they didnt mind us using it. This has absolutely ZERO baring on whether they intended to change it.

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eXcuse me ... who are you ? You have 8 post in the last 30 posts on this thread ...
Are you a CCP official ? If not stop posting and let people tell theyr story, if yes log in your main please.

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Originally by: Za Tarc

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Okay, lets play with the idea that this was not intended as a feature. Lets also say that they put it in the documentation because they wanted to be accurate. Now... due to this unintended feature, many many people found the power of two concept agreeable. They bought multiple accounts so that they could slowly work up a few characters (maybe a miner, trader or pvp) without paying an arm and a leg. Some would have bought these accounts anyway, but many would not have. CCP at no point in this documentation said, this feature is not intended and will be removed one day. Instead they took advantage of it and implied that this was a feature. They have now made additional money on this feature.. even if they are not fully aware of it. This leaves us with the perceived reality again, which is that people spent money based on current policy, only to have then revoke that policy after the investment was made. These players have the right to be mad. From their perspective, they have been deceived.

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Originally by: Alex Salas

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Edited by: Alex Salas on 14/10/2008 19:57:29

Originally by: Lallante

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Id love to know why it matters, to anyone, whether CCP once intended this, once supported it, documented it, whatever.

What difference does it make? They dont like the effect its having on the game now, so they are changing it.


Personally, I remember beta when this started happening. Its a side effect of the coding, not the intention, they were just happy with it until now.

Grow the **** up people

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I am not angry because CCP is getting rid of ghost-trains. I utilized it for a few weeks on accident in fact. My accounts were fully paid for 99.9% of the time.

I am angry on how blatantly condescending CCP has lied about the situation. I have canceled my four account If you want proof, my corp is part of GBC so you can ask my CEO my views and intentions. One of my accounts is set to lapse in 2 days. I will rid the rest out till the last one lapse in December.

Edited for spelling


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Originally by: James Marshalll

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: James Marshalll

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I can tell you with no hesitation YOU DO NOT document bugs in a new user guide...

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No, you can merely claim that YOU don't.

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do you have a grasp on why you wouldn't document bugs in a new user guide that you DIDN'T want users using?

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Originally by: T0desengel

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Edited by: T0desengel on 14/10/2008 20:03:16
This really is the clincher for me, 'Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).', for thosew who have posted about it being a bug dont fool yourselves!
How many more pages before CCP replies? if we ever see a reply! i dont think so.
This is even more evidence that CCP are full of 5H1T and treat the community with the upmost contempt.


(and no you cant have my stuff)

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Originally by: Tito Sajic

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Originally by: T0desengel

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Edited by: T0desengel on 14/10/2008 20:03:16
This really is the clincher for me, 'Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).', for thosew who have posted about it being a bug dont fool yourselves!
How many more pages before CCP replies? if we ever see a reply! i dont think so.
This is even more evidence that CCP are full of 5H1T and treat the community with the upmost contempt.


(and no you cant have my stuff)

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so, not only did they document this so called 'unintended feature', but they advised us on how to best 'exploit' it...until today when they edited it.

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Originally by: Medusa d'Mon

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From Revelations patch notes:

'On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.'

If the so called 'bug' was fixable on Serenity way back then, why wasn't the same 'bug' fixed on Tranquility at the same time?

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Originally by: James Marshalll

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Edited by: James Marshalll on 14/10/2008 20:20:02

Originally by: Waynetta Slob

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Originally by: Lallante

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This is my main. If you havnt heard of me, it simply means you havnt been playing Eve long enough. You dont control the forums, you dont decide who posts. Go away

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omfg.

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Yea if you didn't know he paid kugutsumen to hack goons forums back in the day, I think he was in Shinra too with his good buddy theenslaver who now is a gm? maybe dev don't remember which. Also one of the reasons if I remember right that chowdown has his Titan. You see, when you get free T2 bpo's and have friends who would be affected by CCP losing subs you MUST defend feverishly the actions of those who keep you going in game.

of course I could be thinking bout the wrong BoBit =)

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