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On to missile/drone "nerf" and missions

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Draahk Chimera Caldari Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.16 11:39:00 - [1] I understand perfecty well the reasoning behind nerfing missiles and drones to smaller targets after the nano-nerf. Dont get me wrong. But what is going to happen to missile and drone damage to npc frigs? Some so called "lvl 4" have something like 30 frigs and 1 battleships in a room. Can we look forward to the much awaited missions change that was promised some 1 year ago where the thousands of frigs would be replaced by lesser numbers of battleships. Or are we all going to have to train Nighthawk now?
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.10.16 11:55:00 - [2] You know whats funny? Adapt or die. Carebears wanted changes, carebears got changes. And still not happy with them?
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.16 12:04:00 - [3] Edited by: Murina on 16/10/2008 12:13:11 Originally by: Deva Blackfire You know whats funny? Adapt or die. Carebears wanted changes, carebears got changes. And still not happy with them? /signed Its about attitude bud, carebears want ccp to solve all their problems for them instead of out thinking and over coming them. They live in a sand box where they consider themselves great pilots because they can do lvl4 missions and kill lots of NPC ships but when faced with something that does not do a set thing every time or has a mind that can instantly adapt (or just does not sit still like stupid npc) they are to lazy to deal with it. PS: Oh and to the carebears who may drop a comment about PVPERS overcoming and out thinking this absurd speed nerf if it happens...we will and within a few months you will be back crying to ccp for another nerf. I am betting that if this stupid nerf goes through that sniping or cloaking will be the next thing the carebears call the "i-win button" of eve and start crying for a nerf, is anybody giving odds?.
Korovyov	Posted - 2008.10.16 12:19:00 - [4] Originally by: Deva Blackfire 0.0 Carebears wanted changes, 0.0 carebears got changes. And ruined the game for everyone else. Fixed. Moar Caldari! Originally by: Murina Its about attitude bud, carebears want ccp to solve all their problems for them instead of out thinking and over coming them. QQ Bring back pre-stacking Gankageddons! Pew pew! (and quad MWD, plz, kthx) ((....and cruise kestrels..... ftw... kthx....)) I'm fairly certain this whole speed thing flared up when some jerk with a BPO for nanos came on and whined that nanos were broken and nobody was buying them.
Draahk Chimera Caldari Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.16 12:28:00 - [5] Actually I'm a nano-*** with 80 kills to 3 losses (since join Atlas). I do have an alt that does missions too. More discussion less lame flames.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.16 12:49:00 - [6] Edited by: Murina on 16/10/2008 12:56:07 Originally by: lebrata Are you drunk?..have you heard of nuets?, a solo vaga has no chance to kill a solo BS with even a single nuet fitted, and any ship can just run away that is a stalemate. Not bad considering the nano is a purely offensive pvp fit and fitting a heavy nuet can be done on all PVE fits. Originally by: Tehyarec Neuts? Only one? Vaga runs off. Originally by: lebrata Here is the real issue for you and the rest aint it pal. You have spent all that time killing rats and living in a imaginary world where your a great pilot and uber ship killer, and having day dreams about your awesomeness. Then a vaga comes along and it bursts your little bubble by not sitting still like the rats do. A RATTING ship forcing a pure PVP fitted ship like a vaga to disengage just by fitting a single nuet is a HUGE benefit to the ratting ship but you seem to think that its not enough...so what your mission running piece of crap should now be able to make PVP pilots stupid and sit still so you can shoot them as they do in your day dreams?. The above attitude is your problem pal in a nut shell, your lazy, unimaginative (unless its a dream about how uber at pvp you think you are) and unwilling to improve yourself or modify your thinking. You and ppl like you will be the downfall of eve. I found a fine example of carebear attitude, so i thought id post it. Speed and hacs are broken cos a ratting ship with only one nuet fitted cannot 100% kill them and can only make them run away or die???. PS: QQ indeed.
Korovyov	Posted - 2008.10.16 13:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Draahk Chimera More discussion less lame flames. Okay. I'm fairly certain that the mission runner with 1 AB will not notice much difference, since with less mass the AB will be more effective, and overall the top speed with an AB/MWD will be about the same. I think the changes are mainly going to make the low-slot mods utterly pointless (again). At least, that's what I hope... Originally by: Murina I found a fine example of carebear attitude, so i thought id post it. No contest. But it shouldn't be any surprise that the FoTM is being replaced. Now for the OP! Originally by: Draahk Chimera I understand perfecty well the reasoning behind nerfing missiles and drones to smaller targets after the nano-nerf. Dont get me wrong. But what is going to happen to missile and drone damage to npc frigs? Some so called "lvl 4" have something like 30 frigs and 1 battleships in a room. Can we look forward to the much awaited missions change that was promised some 1 year ago where the thousands of frigs would be replaced by lesser numbers of battleships. Or are we all going to have to train Nighthawk now? Sell your heavy/medium drones. Buy light drones. Sell your CNR. Buy a pulse laser boat (or a rail boat). Buy a stasis webifier or two. Enjoy. Seriously though, you might notice your completion time go from 7 minutes to 8 minutes after the nerfing is done. QQ
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.16 13:51:00 - [8] Edited by: Murina on 16/10/2008 13:52:21 Originally by: Korovyov No contest. But it shouldn't be any surprise that the FoTM is being replaced. FOTM?..For over 4 years small ships like cruisers, destroyers and frigates have been useful in small to medium gangs as tacklers in gang pvp and now they are useless because their only worthwhile tanks are getting nerfed away?. Just because NPC cruisers and below are useless in missions and asteroid belts does not mean player fitted and controlled ships in pvp should be reduced to uselessness as well.
Korovyov	Posted - 2008.10.16 14:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Murina FOTM?..For over 4 years small ships like cruisers, destroyers and frigates have been useful in small to medium gangs as tacklers in gang pvp and now they are useless because their only worthwhile tanks are getting nerfed away? Yes, flavor of the month. But don't worry, it will be back. Just like everything that CCP half-heartedly nerfs, they buff it again a year or two later and see how long they can get away with it. Don't believe me? Ask anyone around in 2004 about the huge MWD nerfs - back before nanos did anything besides take up an empty low slot in exchange for making your hull paper-thin. In the meantime I'm sure the geniuses in Ships & Mods will find some new thing for everyone to abuse until then. Who knows, maybe they'll bring back the Gankageddons and Sniperpocs just like they did after the MWD nerfs. One things for certain though. We can count on Minmatar to be mercilessly nerfed. It's some kind of in-joke at the CCP offices, I think.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.16 15:05:00 - [10] Edited by: Murina on 16/10/2008 15:05:34 Originally by: Korovyov Originally by: Murina FOTM?..For over 4 years small ships like cruisers, destroyers and frigates have been useful in small to medium gangs as tacklers in gang pvp and now they are useless because their only worthwhile tanks are getting nerfed away? Yes, flavor of the month. But don't worry, it will be back. Just like everything that CCP half-heartedly nerfs, they buff it again a year or two later and see how long they can get away with it. Don't believe me? Ask anyone around in 2004 about the huge MWD nerfs - back before nanos did anything besides take up an empty low slot in exchange for making your hull paper-thin. In the meantime I'm sure the geniuses in Ships & Mods will find some new thing for everyone to abuse until then. Who knows, maybe they'll bring back the Gankageddons and Sniperpocs just like they did after the MWD nerfs. One things for certain though. We can count on Minmatar to be mercilessly nerfed. It's some kind of in-joke at the CCP offices, I think. 2003 player bud and i have seen nerfs before but nothing on the scale that this is gonna screw up every small ship in the game apart from maybe the falcon and a few others. But then i suppose that considering how much of a boost this gives snipers and other long range ships it wont be long before we see more alleged "i-win" or "fotm" fits and the "wwaaa nerf nerf" threads that will ultimately follow. The whole idea needs trashing and looking at from another perspective, the perspective of additions and boosts like the web script idea, nerfing a fundamental and essential part of the game is just gonna ultimately destroy it..
Thevlyn	Posted - 2008.10.16 15:27:00 - [11] i am not sure exactly what you guys have been reading, but what i have read is that everything is changing for the better. The idea being that a larger ship will go slower then a smaller one. frigates are suppossed to be BETTER after the change, not worse. BS's are getting a very minor speed nerf, wow, maybe 10m/s, barely noticable. And they are trying to make missles viable vrs fast ships of equal size. so a frigate is able to be hit by a light missle, big deal, instead of making most caldari pilots useless against you, they will hit, but not very hard. Learning to read and understand what your reading goes a long way. The idea that a cruiser can outfly a firgate needed to be addressed. The most specific counter to one of the larger arguments was when the devs said, the BASE speed of ALL frigates is being increased. thats not a nerf, its a change. and making low slot mods do the job intended and not the one that people learned to abuse. Lets see, increaseing the agi and reducing the weight of an industrial has a HUGE affect on its ability to survive, and will prolly do exactly the same thing after the change. But hey, i could be wrong.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2008.10.16 16:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Thevlyn i am not sure exactly what you guys have been reading, but what i have read is that everything is changing for the better. There has been over a dozen threads on this forum alone, a huge vote against the nerf on another and a thread on yet another part of this forum 142 pages long also full of ppl saying this nerf is absurd. So aside from the very rare and occasional "yay my ratting drakes gonna pwn" post from a moron (who was not even around 4 yrs ago) who points out that their was no nano (wrongly btw as frigs could still speed tank) over 4 yrs ago when the player base was around the same size as a normal alliance is now and we had no bubbles or jump bridges....WTF ARE YOU READING?.
Draahk Chimera Caldari Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.16 16:52:00 - [13] No one is discussing the missions in here. Comon, what I want to see is: replace every 5 frigs with a cruiser until you have 3-5 frigs, then replace every 5 cruisers with a bs until you have 3-5 cruisers. Keep elite frigs, elite cruisers, destroyers and bc's the same.
Mire Stoude Cash Money Brothers Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.10.16 17:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Draahk Chimera Can we look forward to the much awaited missions change that was promised some 1 year ago where the thousands of frigs would be replaced by lesser numbers of battleships? I was looking forward to that, too. Sorry for respond to the OP and not the trolls.
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.16 18:51:00 - [15] Just train up sentry drones: Victim: Spurty Corp: D00M. Alliance: Triumvirate. Faction: NONE Destroyed: Malediction System: FD-MLJ Security: 0.0 Damage Taken: 1449 Involved parties: Name: Zigzagel (laid the final blow) Security: -3.4 Corp: Federal Defence Union Alliance: NONE Faction: Gallente Federation Ship: Dominix Weapon: Garde II Damage Done: 1449 Destroyed items: Rocket Launcher II Foxfire Javelin Rocket, Qty: 56 1MN Afterburner II Dropped items: Sensor Booster II Rocket Launcher II, Qty: 2 Warp Disruptor II Adaptive Nano Plating II Foxfire Javelin Rocket, Qty: 880 (Cargo) Ballistic Control System II Foxfire Javelin Rocket, Qty: 28 Small Armor Repairer II They alpha things with 20sig radius, far better than missiles on nano-nerf Man goes to the doc, with a strawberry growing out of his head. Doc says "I'll give you some cream to put on it."
Iog Krugar The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.10.16 20:22:00 - [16] theres no tracking on sisi atm, at least not for turret modules (i assume not for drones either). try shooting something with closerange guns. you will get hit/miss messages, but the full damage will be applied to the target in any case. since you dont see any drone dmg messages, they just make things within their attack range go poof right now... --- i suposse everyone rolls around stations in pods
doctorstupid2 The Accursed	Posted - 2008.10.16 22:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Thevlyn BS's are getting a very minor speed nerf, wow, maybe 10m/s, barely noticable. Taking 4 times longer to go 3/4 as fast counts as minor and/or barely noticeable? Abusive \| Deadspace \| Deadspace2
Draahk Chimera Caldari Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:03:00 - [18] Thank you all for hijacking my thread.
Korovyov	Posted - 2008.10.17 01:39:00 - [19] Originally by: lebrata There has been over a dozen threads on this forum alone, a huge vote against the nerf on another and a thread on yet another part of this forum 142 pages long also full of ppl saying this nerf is absurd. And that's stopped CCP when? Originally by: Draahk Chimera No one is discussing the missions in here. Comon, what I want to see is: replace every 5 frigs with a cruiser until you have 3-5 frigs, then replace every 5 cruisers with a bs until you have 3-5 cruisers. Keep elite frigs, elite cruisers, destroyers and bc's the same. Sorry for making your thread so lame. And /signed
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:57:00 - [20] Yeah this feature is much needed, speed nerf or not. Frigs in lvl 4s are stupid. Tackling frigs? Okay no problem. But the rest are just a waste of space and server resources. That goes for destroyers too. I thought that the basis for this change they proposed was in fact to help ease the load on the server, anyway. Some of the more recent missions go completely against that notion! Oh well... But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Odizzido	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:29:00 - [21] haha I know. CCP looks for ways to reduce lag....perfect solution: Introduce buzzkill, the mission with a million ships.
Nuts Nougat SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:42:00 - [22] 1. Go do missions to 0.0 2. Titan 3. ?????? 4. Profit ---
Broegitte Bardot BINFORD Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:49:00 - [23] bombs follow the same missle calc, dont they.............? aka Roemy Schneider (probably lacking game time again)
Draahk Chimera Caldari Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.17 13:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Nuts Nougat 1. Go do missions to 0.0 2. Titan 3. ?????? 4. Profit I do do missions in nullsec. 8/10 missions are inside a deadspace pocket so no capitals. And fiering a ddd cost some 50 mil dont it? Thats 10x what you make on the "worst" mission: "Massive attack" (lol). 3 rooms of some 50 amarr navy frigs, 20-odd cruisers and 1 bs. Sure, you can turn them down (and I do) but is it really intended that out of maybe 15 missions 4-5 is so crappy there is no point in doing them?
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.10.19 12:56:00 - [25] I agree that if drones are getting nerfed vs frigs, need to pull the frigs out of lvl 4's. Bear in mind this is an even bigger problem for the people who don't fly Caldari since big battleship guns dont do jack against frigates that orbit <10km, whereas heavy/cruise missiles hit for at least decent damage. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Mistress Frome SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.10.20 05:36:00 - [26] probably one of the best topic derails I've ever seen.
Solid Prefekt Minmatar Haven Front	Posted - 2008.10.20 07:08:00 - [27] Originally by: lebrata There has been over a dozen threads on this forum alone, a huge vote against the nerf on another and a thread on yet another part of this forum 142 pages long also full of ppl saying this nerf is absurd. CCP is getting numb to people whining. In the original blog on the nerf they even made a point that people will whine. Glad they have such a positive view of their customers...
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.10.21 23:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Mistress Frome probably one of the best topic derails I've ever seen. lol this also lol @ ccp -----
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.10.22 02:29:00 - [29] Originally by: Draahk Chimera I understand perfecty well the reasoning behind nerfing missiles and drones to smaller targets after the nano-nerf. Dont get me wrong. But what is going to happen to missile and drone damage to npc frigs? Some so called "lvl 4" have something like 30 frigs and 1 battleships in a room. Can we look forward to the much awaited missions change that was promised some 1 year ago where the thousands of frigs would be replaced by lesser numbers of battleships. Or are we all going to have to train Nighthawk now? While I'd very much prefer missions be changed accordingly. I doubt it will happen. AFAIK the medium drones havent changed yet. Also from my experience watching pvp in ffa1 and such... they really arent being used anymore. Warriors and hobgoblins are king. So honestly... I dont think hammerheads are necessarily needing any nerf. Worst case scenario I use the hobgoblins more often than I do now in my dominix. my CNR has 75m space so 5 mediums and 5 lights is fine also. The real problem is slower speed of the battleships overall. Which needs balancing with the gate distances; relative to tq. This will be a very very big whine factor from carebears when they start to realize the changes. The threadnought... or possibly we might even need Titanread for that if no changes happen now. 20% closer for all acceleration gates are needed. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Koyama Ise Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:08:00 - [30] Edited by: Koyama Ise on 22/10/2008 07:10:04 Originally by: Korovyov I'm fairly certain that the mission runner with 1 AB will not notice much difference My Mission Abaddon goes 330ish with an AB at the moment. It will go 270 after the speed nerf... that's fairly noticable. Now before anyone calls me a carebear I fly a nano curse and an inty the slows down by 4k after the speed nerf... ------ FIX THE BLOODY OVERVIEW ALREADY! SPEED NERF! RUN FOR THE HILLS!

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