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CTec
Wasting Time RnD
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Posted - 2008.10.17 20:46:00 -
[1]
1. Bombs should be fire and forget. There should be no reason a bomber should have to stay uncloaked until the bomb triggers.
2. Range should be selective and have more of an option then 18km. Being that up close and personal make for almost no chance of surviving a bombing run. 20km, 30km, 40km should be able to select the flight duration of the bomb.
3. cost of bombs?! should be halved at least.
Between the short range attack, the inability of the pilot to escape in stealth mode while the projectile is in flight, and high cost of ammo makes this a waste of skills to learn.
Make the Stealth Bomber a useful ship to use. If nothing else allow for the bomb release and cloak back up with 2 seconds.
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Dark 'Shadow
Shadow Fire Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.17 23:40:00 -
[2]
This really needs to be fixed, the stealth bomber using bombs is nearly useless as it stands right now.
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Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:29:00 -
[3]
There are a couple viable tactics that can make use of the stealth bombers as a bomber:
- Limited numbers of hostile
- bombing drone/fighter blobs
- suicide bombing (you can launch more than one bomb with your ship before dying too!). Go at it with 2 or 3 bombers so not all have to die and you have the recipe for a nifty battlefield cleanup. Alternatively, one of the bombers can carry a lockbreaking bomb to allow the others to escape, it now becomes a question of timing.
Overall I agree though with your first point: fire and forget. Cloaking should not hamper the ability of a bomb to deal damage.
The issue now becomes that your ennemies have basically no chance of getting back at you considering your lack of cloaking duration penalty and minimal signature.
Also, have you tried using an AB instead of a MWD so as to minimize your signature while getting away, x5 locking time because of a MWD doesn't help... That and put some tank modules, it is quite easy to quadruple your effective HP if you can be bothered to fit for it. This puts you in the same position as a dictor pilot.
The range issue I don't necessarily agree with, it's a bomber, not a sniper. This is debatable. Give a longer flight duration and your targets have more time to leave too, so you'd end up having to get up close anyway.
The last point I disagree with. While bombs are indeed terribly expensive, they are one of the few area of effect damage available (with smartbombs and DD), the others all have their disadvantages (one has very high cap cost and limited range, the other requires a titan) but on a damage dealt to ISK ratio, they're not bad at all considering they have an immense alpha and a huge area of effect.
Overall, I agree that stealth bombers need looking into, though.
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Jeirth
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.10.19 15:02:00 -
[4]
Something needs to be done, giving bombs to stealth bombers just hasnt given them a role, as it stands atm.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.20 00:02:00 -
[5]
Cruise missiles even with the speed nerf still cannot hit anything. The things it can hit has so much effective hp that stealth bombers are utterly useless and easily defeated.
Bombs are roughly 15-20million per bomb... it takes 3+ to kill ANYTHING. So you literally are spending nearly 100mil just to get kills... That's just totally nuts.
Next bombs are very hard to predict. You are plausibly going to kill yourself or your friends along with the enemy.
I dont know how CCP are going to adjust bombs... but honestly the cruise missiles need adjusting to make them alpha kill virtually all untanked frigates. OR drop cruise missiles entirely and give stealth bombers citadel torps who then are used in antibs-capital warfare. Which is big value and not overpowered. 30 second rof with only about 10,000 alpha dmg only able to effectively hit battleships or larger.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Seraphim Io
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.20 06:04:00 -
[6]
Bombs need to be improved to increase usage. Also has anyone noticed that the SB's Have 7 bonus'? Two for class frig, two more for Cov Ops, and Three for role. Yet still not alot of players fly these ships mainstream. Very VERY niche ship that is outclassed by other more capable and cheap ships.
I would like to see it given either warp while cloaked or the ability to target while cloaked whilst also having the missiles damage while cloaked. I believe this would give the ship the survivability edge without boosting HP's. Would also encourage a "Wolf Pack" mentality thus grouping players together in order to kill larger targets.
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tartan pixie
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Posted - 2008.10.20 23:32:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Seraphim Io
I would like to see it given either warp while cloaked or the ability to target while cloaked
+1
Note about RL naval warfare. Dreadnoughts like the Malaya that fought at jutland were fazed out a long time ago because they could be sunk by smaller, cheaper units like the torpedo destroyer and submarine. Eve currently has an arms race where dreads are the new BS's, titans are the new dreads etc just as Britain and Germany did in the early 1900s and i wonder if EVE dreads'll go the same way as the RL dreads. Either that or one day we'll have titan blobs 
BS > cruiser > frigs > BS is the way to make it tactical and fun not just "me got der big ship go boom and you is dead" titan warfare.
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Syberbolt8
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.21 00:53:00 -
[8]
I agree to the Fire and forget for stealth bomber bombs, and tbh it should be the same for missiles, just IMO
Im Looking for a new Home |
InfamousOne
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Posted - 2008.10.21 01:51:00 -
[9]
I would also like to throw my support into this thread, bombs should be fired and the pilot able to recloak in 2-3 seconds provided he isnt locked and try to escape. I have been messing around with the SB's for a short while and I cant really find any use for them as of yet, they cant use the cov ops cloak, the cruise missiles are a joke and the bombs cost to much for what you get from them.
I think the pilot should be able to cloak after launching and just give the bomb a dmg penalty based off of bomb launcher skill lvl, cloaking skill lvl, and cov ops skill lvl. The higher those skills the less of a dmg penalty you are hit with after cloaking. Maybe I am slightly crazy, but I enjoy the thought of all the michief I could get into with a proper working SB 
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Silent Deviant
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Posted - 2008.10.21 12:55:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Silent Deviant on 21/10/2008 12:55:32
Well there are lots of things that I use my Stealth Bomber for with cruise's.
But yes I would like to see the Bombs given the fire and forget mode with a range option.
It would also be interesting to make a lazer guided bomb where you can have it lock onto a large ship or structure that is being target painted. |
scunner funk
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Posted - 2008.10.22 11:04:00 -
[11]
smartbomb - a weapon so dumb they had to invent bombs to make it look smart
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Onyx Grimslade
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Posted - 2008.11.21 19:15:00 -
[12]
I have only used bombs on the test server. I can cloak immediately after deploying bomb and it will still explode. Is it not the same on Tranquility?
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.21 22:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: tartan pixie
Originally by: Seraphim Io
I would like to see it given either warp while cloaked or the ability to target while cloaked
+1
Note about RL naval warfare. Dreadnoughts like the Malaya that fought at jutland were fazed out a long time ago because they could be sunk by smaller, cheaper units like the torpedo destroyer and submarine. Eve currently has an arms race where dreads are the new BS's, titans are the new dreads etc just as Britain and Germany did in the early 1900s and i wonder if EVE dreads'll go the same way as the RL dreads. Either that or one day we'll have titan blobs
BS > cruiser > frigs > BS is the way to make it tactical and fun not just "me got der big ship go boom and you is dead" titan warfare.
Battleships got phased out of RL naval warfare because aircraft carriers gained the ability to generate useful levels of firepower at far longer ranges. Given the nature of naval detection systems(i.e., you can't hide a capital ship), this meant that the battleship was sunk without those big guns ever coming to bear. They still have roles, even on the modern field of battle, but they don't have a big enough role to justify spending several billion on one. Besides, the only nation with a serious navy already has two in commission, they don't really need any more of them.
That said, the comparison of RL naval warfare to Eve warfare is problematic. Ship losses don't matter so much in Eve - really, the comparison is PT boats(battleships), destroyers(carriers), cruisers(dreadnoughts), and the world's most expensive B-29 dropping a nuke(Titans). That changes tactics pretty fundamentally when losses are nearly irrelevant.
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Ackuula
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Posted - 2008.11.22 11:14:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Ackuula on 22/11/2008 11:16:19
I too would like to see the bombs become fire and forget, but I don't think they should automatically hit their target if you cloak (plus I don't think it will work within the game mechanics). It would make the bomber way to powerful. If anything a bomb should simple run out its remaining flight time and then explode from the moment the launching bomber either is destroyed, cloaks, warps, or docks.
It would be nice touch if you could set the "fuse" on your bomb so you could control its flight time.
(Zero would become the new suicide gank.)
If they want to make it more challenging, because eventually good pilots will learn how to fire them this way, they could add some wobble into the flight path, as missiles do now when lock is broken.
Also they really need to revamp the explosion graphics and what the bomb looks like. It should be pretty obvious someone just let loose something destructive verses the little fire cracker pop we have now.
To keep from getting insta-popped make sure your target is one that is pre-occupied. An alert gate camp makes for a poor target (you will die).
Good targets:
A friendly carrier besieged by drones and fighters.
A tight blob of enemies remote repping one another during a POS/Fleet fight.
Interrupting two other groups fighting with a well placed bomb in the middle is good fun.
With the current mechanics the trick is you need to be shooting at someone who is already invested at shooting at someone else if you want to live to launch your second bomb.
Range is not much of an issue with bombs if you train up your skills. Train up missile bombardment for a 50% range bonus and missile projection for 50% velocity increase. With MB 5 and MP 3 I can launch around 35kms from the target.
The cost of the indivdual bombs will eventually drop once the market starts adapting to the 50% reduction in manufacturing costs that occurred with the last patch.
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Odessima
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.11.22 12:50:00 -
[15]
GIving it a thumbs up even though SB's need to be able to be used in more than 0.0 so shouldnt just have great bombs |
Seraphim Io
Caldari
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.29 13:24:00 -
[16]
With the recent nerf bat to the face of the stealth bombers I for one demand the ability to warp while cloak to put this class of ship in line with recon and black ops ships. CCP you OWE us SB pilots some freaking slack of this magnitude
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.11.29 16:06:00 -
[17]
Bah, bombs just don't work as intended. You might as well strap a jacket of C4 on and scream Viva Amarr as you drive into the enemy line. End result is pretty much the same.
SB are not viable in their role any longer, they're hardly a threat to even a basic fit Rifter.
Give them the ability to fit cov ops cloaks.
Give them the ability to passive target while cloaked (At 10% their max uncloaked scan res).
Increase their cruise missile bonuses to a +250% explosion radius and +250% explosion velocty. Remove the range and damage bonuses.
Reduce Bombs to cost lest per run than the ship launching them!!!
And another great role for them: Anti-Covert Warfare. Enable a cloaked covert ops the ability to find other cloaked ships with their on-board scanner. They would, of course, then have to chase it down to decloak it... but only while they are cloaked and are subsequently decloaked themselves.
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Sybern
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Posted - 2008.11.29 17:41:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Sybern on 29/11/2008 17:41:28
Originally by: Mister Xerox
And another great role for them: Anti-Covert Warfare. Enable a cloaked covert ops the ability to find other cloaked ships with their on-board scanner. They would, of course, then have to chase it down to decloak it... but only while they are cloaked and are subsequently decloaked themselves.
I actually like that idea. It's not giving them too much, because you are only given a range for the cloaked ships.
Hmm, thinking about it again, I'm not sure. This would allow a SB to find a cloaked ship's range, then have normal ships warp to them at that range. Still, might not be too much.
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Fahtim Meidires
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.29 18:57:00 -
[19]
I agree with making bombs less expensive, however I do not think the vulnerability while deploying should be removed. Once a bomber drops a bomb, it should be a sitting duck if it didn't come with support.
Supporting because bombs still need to be looked at.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.11.30 05:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sybern
Edited by: Sybern on 29/11/2008 17:41:28
Originally by: Mister Xerox
And another great role for them: Anti-Covert Warfare. Enable a cloaked covert ops the ability to find other cloaked ships with their on-board scanner. They would, of course, then have to chase it down to decloak it... but only while they are cloaked and are subsequently decloaked themselves.
I actually like that idea. It's not giving them too much, because you are only given a range for the cloaked ships.
Hmm, thinking about it again, I'm not sure. This would allow a SB to find a cloaked ship's range, then have normal ships warp to them at that range. Still, might not be too much.
I good pilot can narrow the cone down to range and direction. If the cloaker is sitting still the one hunting them can just... drive right up to them and decloak them (both).
Also, a cloaked ship should be able to see an EM fringe around other cloaked ships... Like their own cloaking effect. The pilot would actually have to see this fringe, by looking. Obviously it would take a keen eyed pilot to pick out the enemy cloaker at much beyond 10km... and even at 3km it would be a challenge.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.01 02:35:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 01/12/2008 02:36:58
It is sad when a tier 1 fully insured battleship with t1 fit will do the bombing job much better and cheaper than a stealth bomber ^^
Both of its weapon systems have to be improved.
Even if bombs were 1 isk/pcs it would be still useless ,they are only good for popping drones and afk frigs.
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steave435
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.12.01 02:40:00 -
[22]
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.12.01 18:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: scunner funk
smartbomb - a weapon so dumb they had to invent bombs to make it look smart
How about a drama bomb?
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Can't afford that BPO? Look here.
20:1 mineral compression
The EVE f@h team |
JVol
Amarr
The IMorral MAjority
Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:38:00 -
[24]
Bombs as they are atm are almost perfect. The only change needs to be the fire and forget. As of yesterday, getting podded after launching but before detonation makes the bomb go away, no damage. This is wrong, unless the bomb itself is destroyed by a smartbomb or a DD or w/e phyically kills bombs, they should explode.
Bombs are for breaking up blobs, and in the right situations they do it, with the right setup on the bomber you can get away most of the time. In any situation, they take alot of work and supreme coordination to inflict mass KM's.. But even in a failed or tactically flawed bomber attacks on any blob ive encounterd,they usually laugh, but they ALWAYS leave...null null null
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Seraphim Io
Caldari
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.28 04:02:00 -
[25]
Do we have to beg or something? maybe even some acknowledgment of an issue needing addressing. C'mon CCP do something.
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William Pierce
Universal Army
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Posted - 2008.12.29 01:51:00 -
[26]
/signed
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