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Ruciza Minmatar The Feminists	Posted - 2008.10.20 23:03:00 - [31] Edited by: Ruciza on 20/10/2008 23:03:43 Originally by: Impolite Andevil One thing I do like stealth bombers for is anti-recon, especially anti-falcon work. 2 stealth bombers at 30k or so will kill most falcons. Other than that they are not the most capable ships... I wonder when people will start to connect the dots. Then the age of the stealth bomber shall begin...
Lyvanna Kitaen Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:09:00 - [32] I recently found an excellent use for my stealth bomber. I use it to clear low-end frig-only DED and exploration plexes. Get some distance and start popping. It's generally one missile per frig. You can clear a room in no time. The only problem is that most of the plexes have clouds, so your cloak is generally worthless. I used to use an AF (Jag) but a Hound with 3 cruise launchers is much faster -- even if the thing is made of paper. You have to be careful because it's easy to get your SB popped.
Brem Watson Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.21 01:00:00 - [33] Edited by: Brem Watson on 21/10/2008 01:05:16 Originally by: Gorefacer Originally by: Brem Watson Edited by: Brem Watson on 20/10/2008 00:01:34 Originally by: Gorefacer There's nothing wrong with the ship. The thing is there is a reason the enemy is "focused on your gang members", it's because you are less of a threat. Well, the reason no one is focused on me when I'm in my Manti is because I'm about 120km out when my gang has already engaged. There is NO reason for me to be seen before the time of attack. When I'm in that ship, I'm cloaked until I need to warp or fight. This is the main reason I've owned that ship for over almost 2 years. I use the ship for what it is capable of doing which is cause extra damage and grab pods when in need. And yet, you could have been 150+KM off in a Falcon. Warped to the spot cloaked and when the fight started been many many times more effective. We can round and round. Just because the ship isn't worthless in every situation doesn't mean it's a better choice than other ships for most situations. By you sitting 120KM off in an SB in a gang fight - your not contributing much to the success of your gang. But at least you showed up I guess. Well I guess if everyone in Eve trained and few the same ship, it would be pretty boring huh? How could I have been more effective in a Falcon if I can't kill anything in it? I kill stuff with the Manti. Plus, that was the ship I trained for almost 2 years ago, not the Falcon so that defeats your point. The point is, my Manti has been flown in battles for 2 years with little down time. The ship is a good added element to a gang. .......and we aren't going 'round and round' because I'm finished. I like when people like you pop into a thread and act like you know it all. The cornballs are out tonight......
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.10.21 02:28:00 - [34] Originally by: Brem Watson Edited by: Brem Watson on 21/10/2008 01:05:16 Originally by: Gorefacer Originally by: Brem Watson Edited by: Brem Watson on 20/10/2008 00:01:34 Originally by: Gorefacer There's nothing wrong with the ship. The thing is there is a reason the enemy is "focused on your gang members", it's because you are less of a threat. Well, the reason no one is focused on me when I'm in my Manti is because I'm about 120km out when my gang has already engaged. There is NO reason for me to be seen before the time of attack. When I'm in that ship, I'm cloaked until I need to warp or fight. This is the main reason I've owned that ship for over almost 2 years. I use the ship for what it is capable of doing which is cause extra damage and grab pods when in need. And yet, you could have been 150+KM off in a Falcon. Warped to the spot cloaked and when the fight started been many many times more effective. We can round and round. Just because the ship isn't worthless in every situation doesn't mean it's a better choice than other ships for most situations. By you sitting 120KM off in an SB in a gang fight - your not contributing much to the success of your gang. But at least you showed up I guess. Well I guess if everyone in Eve trained and few the same ship, it would be pretty boring huh? How could I have been more effective in a Falcon if I can't kill anything in it? I kill stuff with the Manti. Plus, that was the ship I trained for almost 2 years ago, not the Falcon so that defeats your point. The point is, my Manti has been flown in battles for 2 years with little down time. The ship is a good added element to a gang. .......and we aren't going 'round and round' because I'm finished. I like when people like you pop into a thread and act like you know it all. The cornballs are out tonight...... I never said you shouldn't fly an SB. Just don't try to make it out to be more than it is. If you judge the value of your ships on how long you can keep them around and how many KMs you can tag with them, then your right the Manticore is superb. I've said before I fly SBs occasionally and enjoy them. They just aren't as effective in most situations as many other ships. They just aren't. You apparently can't understand why a Falcon jamming out multiple enemies and warping into position cloaked isn't more effective than a frigate that does 250 DPS with a large damage delay time. I may not be all knowing when it comes to PVP but I don't think your the one that should be pointing out who is and isn't either. Although I suppose I should be endorsing what your selling. I'd much rather face more SBs than Falcons when out roaming. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Brem Watson Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.21 03:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Gorefacer Originally by: Brem Watson Edited by: Brem Watson on 21/10/2008 01:05:16 Originally by: Gorefacer Originally by: Brem Watson Edited by: Brem Watson on 20/10/2008 00:01:34 Originally by: Gorefacer There's nothing wrong with the ship. The thing is there is a reason the enemy is "focused on your gang members", it's because you are less of a threat. Well, the reason no one is focused on me when I'm in my Manti is because I'm about 120km out when my gang has already engaged. There is NO reason for me to be seen before the time of attack. When I'm in that ship, I'm cloaked until I need to warp or fight. This is the main reason I've owned that ship for over almost 2 years. I use the ship for what it is capable of doing which is cause extra damage and grab pods when in need. And yet, you could have been 150+KM off in a Falcon. Warped to the spot cloaked and when the fight started been many many times more effective. We can round and round. Just because the ship isn't worthless in every situation doesn't mean it's a better choice than other ships for most situations. By you sitting 120KM off in an SB in a gang fight - your not contributing much to the success of your gang. But at least you showed up I guess. Well I guess if everyone in Eve trained and few the same ship, it would be pretty boring huh? How could I have been more effective in a Falcon if I can't kill anything in it? I kill stuff with the Manti. Plus, that was the ship I trained for almost 2 years ago, not the Falcon so that defeats your point. The point is, my Manti has been flown in battles for 2 years with little down time. The ship is a good added element to a gang. .......and we aren't going 'round and round' because I'm finished. I like when people like you pop into a thread and act like you know it all. The cornballs are out tonight...... I never said you shouldn't fly an SB. Just don't try to make it out to be more than it is. If you judge the value of your ships on how long you can keep them around and how many KMs you can tag with them, then your right the Manticore is superb. I've said before I fly SBs occasionally and enjoy them. They just aren't as effective in most situations as many other ships. They just aren't. You apparently can't understand why a Falcon jamming out multiple enemies and warping into position cloaked isn't more effective than a frigate that does 250 DPS with a large damage delay time. I may not be all knowing when it comes to PVP but I don't think your the one that should be pointing out who is and isn't either. Although I suppose I should be endorsing what your selling. I'd much rather face more SBs than Falcons when out roaming. I fly a Falcon too. I understand everything.
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.10.21 04:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Seragon The best use of a stealth bomber I've found is camping hostile systems in 0.0. Sit cloaked and wait for your juicy targets. Take a few potshots at bigger things just to remind them you're there. Ruin moral. Take up resources to deal with you. Build paranoia and suck up the sweet carebear tears through a straw. I love my manti, but you can't treat it like a normal ship. You're not there to cause dps, just suffering. This is the correct answer. You strike at targets of opportunity and deny access to every belt in a system just through your presence. another good idea is to annoy ships at a hostile gatecamp... wait until some poor soul jumps in and when they start pounding on their target you can often waste a frigate from quite far away before they realize what's happening.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.10.21 05:25:00 - [37] Originally by: Brem Watson Originally by: Gorefacer Originally by: Brem Watson Edited by: Brem Watson on 21/10/2008 01:05:16 Originally by: Gorefacer Originally by: Brem Watson Edited by: Brem Watson on 20/10/2008 00:01:34 Originally by: Gorefacer There's nothing wrong with the ship. The thing is there is a reason the enemy is "focused on your gang members", it's because you are less of a threat. Well, the reason no one is focused on me when I'm in my Manti is because I'm about 120km out when my gang has already engaged. There is NO reason for me to be seen before the time of attack. When I'm in that ship, I'm cloaked until I need to warp or fight. This is the main reason I've owned that ship for over almost 2 years. I use the ship for what it is capable of doing which is cause extra damage and grab pods when in need. And yet, you could have been 150+KM off in a Falcon. Warped to the spot cloaked and when the fight started been many many times more effective. We can round and round. Just because the ship isn't worthless in every situation doesn't mean it's a better choice than other ships for most situations. By you sitting 120KM off in an SB in a gang fight - your not contributing much to the success of your gang. But at least you showed up I guess. Well I guess if everyone in Eve trained and few the same ship, it would be pretty boring huh? How could I have been more effective in a Falcon if I can't kill anything in it? I kill stuff with the Manti. Plus, that was the ship I trained for almost 2 years ago, not the Falcon so that defeats your point. The point is, my Manti has been flown in battles for 2 years with little down time. The ship is a good added element to a gang. .......and we aren't going 'round and round' because I'm finished. I like when people like you pop into a thread and act like you know it all. The cornballs are out tonight...... I never said you shouldn't fly an SB. Just don't try to make it out to be more than it is. If you judge the value of your ships on how long you can keep them around and how many KMs you can tag with them, then your right the Manticore is superb. I've said before I fly SBs occasionally and enjoy them. They just aren't as effective in most situations as many other ships. They just aren't. You apparently can't understand why a Falcon jamming out multiple enemies and warping into position cloaked isn't more effective than a frigate that does 250 DPS with a large damage delay time. I may not be all knowing when it comes to PVP but I don't think your the one that should be pointing out who is and isn't either. Although I suppose I should be endorsing what your selling. I'd much rather face more SBs than Falcons when out roaming. I fly a Falcon too. I understand everything. OK.... and in most gang fights your in do you find the Falcon or Manticore adding to the success of your side more? If you "understand everything" where did this quote come from? "How could I have been more effective in a Falcon if I can't kill anything in it? " Also I thought you said you trained for Manti and NOT the Falcon. "Plus, that was the ship I trained for almost 2 years ago, not the Falcon so that defeats your point." As long as your calling others cornballs at least stay consistent and clear with your arguments. Nobody here is claiming that SBs can't do a good job of harassing people in enemy space by popping frigs that aren't paying attention. It's a niche role and usually only works when choosing targets of opportunity carefully. ALSO I thought your were "finished" already. We get you enjoy flying the Manticore. Explain how it's MORE or EQUALLY effective than other available choices in a majority of common circumstances with a gang or there's nothing more to discuss. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
pippan Gallente Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.10.21 08:01:00 - [38] Go to youtube and search for the stealth bomber series ----
Brem Watson Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.21 10:54:00 - [39] Originally by: Gorefacer Also I thought you said you trained for Manti and NOT the Falcon. "Plus, that was the ship I trained for almost 2 years ago, not the Falcon so that defeats your point." As long as your calling others cornballs at least stay consistent and clear with your arguments. Nobody here is claiming that SBs can't do a good job of harassing people in enemy space by popping frigs that aren't paying attention. It's a niche role and usually only works when choosing targets of opportunity carefully. ALSO I thought your were "finished" already. We get you enjoy flying the Manticore. Explain how it's MORE or EQUALLY effective than other available choices in a majority of common circumstances with a gang or there's nothing more to discuss. You're typing a lot for no reason to be cool I gruess or to find validation in your argument. I know what I'm talking about and to the OP, the Manti is a fun ship to fly in gang warfare also. Don't believe the hype when a lot of these guys rag on the ship because it's not a mega damage or tanking ship. Learn how to fly it and you'll enjoy life as a stealth bomber pilot. Now, I'm done. Gotta do something important with my life now.
Elitia	Posted - 2008.10.21 11:18:00 - [40] I just wanted to add that if you cloak while the missiles are in flight about 40 - 35 km from your target they will still hit.

Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.10.21 14:16:00 - [41] Originally by: Brem Watson Originally by: Gorefacer Also I thought you said you trained for Manti and NOT the Falcon. "Plus, that was the ship I trained for almost 2 years ago, not the Falcon so that defeats your point." As long as your calling others cornballs at least stay consistent and clear with your arguments. Nobody here is claiming that SBs can't do a good job of harassing people in enemy space by popping frigs that aren't paying attention. It's a niche role and usually only works when choosing targets of opportunity carefully. ALSO I thought your were "finished" already. We get you enjoy flying the Manticore. Explain how it's MORE or EQUALLY effective than other available choices in a majority of common circumstances with a gang or there's nothing more to discuss. You're typing a lot for no reason to be cool I gruess or to find validation in your argument. I know what I'm talking about and to the OP, the Manti is a fun ship to fly in gang warfare also. Don't believe the hype when a lot of these guys rag on the ship because it's not a mega damage or tanking ship. Learn how to fly it and you'll enjoy life as a stealth bomber pilot. Now, I'm done. Gotta do something important with my life now. So I can't have a discussion on the forums without just trying to look cool? You attacked people stating a realistic assessment of the ship type. Provided very little actually content to back up your position. Insulted me personally. Then concluded that you know what your talking about because you say so. Guess the discussion is over, with you being the one to do important stuff and all. I don't need validation in my argument as you never really posted anything coherent or solid enough to refute it. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Mr Daytrading	Posted - 2008.10.21 14:41:00 - [42] what about those bombs, i never used those. They have a damage radius of 15km, does that mean that when im closer then 15km of my target i die because of my own bomb?
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:46:00 - [43] Originally by: Mr Daytrading what about those bombs, i never used those. They have a damage radius of 15km, does that mean that when im closer then 15km of my target i die because of my own bomb? Yes. You will get damage. I think several mio ISK aren't worth it. Seriously. But everyone should make his own experience. The conclusion is everytime the same. Do not fly it in PvP. Just don't. Read here for more. Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Ruciza Minmatar The Feminists	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:56:00 - [44] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Originally by: Mr Daytrading what about those bombs, i never used those. They have a damage radius of 15km, does that mean that when im closer then 15km of my target i die because of my own bomb? Yes. You will get damage. I think several mio ISK aren't worth it. Seriously. But everyone should make his own experience. The conclusion is everytime the same. Do not fly it in PvP. Just don't. Read here for more. As if bombs are intended to kill stuff.
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 17:03:00 - [45] Originally by: Ruciza Originally by: Colonel Xaven Originally by: Mr Daytrading what about those bombs, i never used those. They have a damage radius of 15km, does that mean that when im closer then 15km of my target i die because of my own bomb? Yes. You will get damage. I think several mio ISK aren't worth it. Seriously. But everyone should make his own experience. The conclusion is everytime the same. Do not fly it in PvP. Just don't. Read here for more. As if bombs are intended to kill stuff. So the kinetic damage of a concussion bomb is intended to do what? Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Seragon Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.21 18:01:00 - [46] Bombs have a base damage of 6500. Bombs have an explosion radius of 400. Frigates have a sig radius of about 50. That gives an 88% damage reduction. Your damage to those frigates is now 768. Congratulations. You just took off just over half the hp of an untanked Condor. Your single shot weapon that cost almost as much as your ship just failed to destroy anything larger than a shuttle. I misspoke. I think shuttles would survive too. This isn't even considering if they are moving. Bombs, like the stealth bombers that carry them, are weapons of terror when used solo and only become deadly when used in a group. Doesn't mean they're not fun ;) Also I don't fly a 250 dps ship. (mine is only like 150 with my setup anyways) I fly a 2k+ alpha strike ship. Complaining about a sb because it does so little dps is like complaining about a falcon because a cerb would do more damage. Different ships fill different roles.
Max Hardcase Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.21 18:48:00 - [47] EAF's are probably much more generally usefull. The main hindrance to SB's is not their DPS, its the limitation to their stealth : not being able to warp cloaked. Even if they'd give them something silly like 0.7 or 1 au/s warp speed while cloaked, well that would go a long way to make em more viable.
Alazontez Gallenteur Gallente Wolf-Monkey Bastards	Posted - 2008.10.21 19:22:00 - [48] One role that the SB absolutely excells in, part of the terror role, is alliance logistic disruption. You hop deep into hostile enemy space near their home systems. Cruise around and look for people in any kind of hauler moving supplies around the heart of their home systems. Most of the time they will be unescorted in sovereign space, or escort will be near by but not actually with the hauler, doing things less boring than waiting on the obelisk to make the 5min 180 degree turn. You find a hauler, lock on, decloak, and open up full bore. You make take it down before support arrives, you may not, at any rate, support arrives, cloak, align, warp to safe, recloak. If you do get the hauler, blow up the wreck unless local is empty. This insures maximum damage to your target. If you got the kill and the wreck, congratulations you just possibly inflicted a large amount of damage to the enemy alliance. If support showed up, congratulations, you just pulled them away from doing something more important. At either rate, for a while you will see all of their transports being escorted, or they will resort to using strictly jump transportation, either way that pulls pilots away to escort and cyno that could be doing something more effective for the alliance. This ship is a like a WWII U-Boat, meant to make the enemy spend resources in order to transport their resources. The amount of isk inflicted upon the enemy is much greater than the direct isk loss, its the loss of all the isk that could have been made by those pilots that now have to participate in logistics operations. Just my .02 isk -Alazontez Gallenteur Director of Military Operations Wolf-Monkey Bastards Corporation ----------------------------------------------- There is no honor in war, only victory and defeat.
Mithos Victus Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.21 20:15:00 - [49] Originally by: Alazontez Gallenteur One role that the SB absolutely excells in, part of the terror role, is alliance logistic disruption. You hop deep into hostile enemy space near their home systems. Cruise around and look for people in any kind of hauler moving supplies around the heart of their home systems. Most of the time they will be unescorted in sovereign space, or escort will be near by but not actually with the hauler, doing things less boring than waiting on the obelisk to make the 5min 180 degree turn. You find a hauler, lock on, decloak, and open up full bore. You make take it down before support arrives, you may not, at any rate, support arrives, cloak, align, warp to safe, recloak. If you do get the hauler, blow up the wreck unless local is empty. This insures maximum damage to your target. If you got the kill and the wreck, congratulations you just possibly inflicted a large amount of damage to the enemy alliance. If support showed up, congratulations, you just pulled them away from doing something more important. At either rate, for a while you will see all of their transports being escorted, or they will resort to using strictly jump transportation, either way that pulls pilots away to escort and cyno that could be doing something more effective for the alliance. This ship is a like a WWII U-Boat, meant to make the enemy spend resources in order to transport their resources. The amount of isk inflicted upon the enemy is much greater than the direct isk loss, its the loss of all the isk that could have been made by those pilots that now have to participate in logistics operations. Just my .02 isk Finally someone who gets it. Really nothing more to add. /thread
Jach Wong	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:16:00 - [50] Err, slight sidetrack but I didn't want to fork off another Stealth Bomber thread... I was messing around in EFT and accidentally fitted 2 cloaking devices. To my surprise, EFT seems to think I can activate both at the same time. Can anyone verify if this works in-game / if this is an intended behavior? I'd test it out but I don't have access to a machine that can play EVE at the moment. "This is not the boot you're looking for."

Donna Maria Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:47:00 - [51] Originally by: Alazontez Gallenteur This ship is a like a WWII U-Boat My thoughts on this matter. Bombers are great for camping entrypoints into .0 sec also. Especially if there is a large bubble. Even with people in local, amazingly, people will try to make it out of the T2 large bubble camps if they don't see people on grid. Once the get about 10Km inside the bubble, (or if they jump in and dont run back to the gate) it can be an amazing surprise when you uncloak and open up Faction ammo on them. BTW, ***y inty pilots often head right for you if you uncloak on them. Pre-RSD nerf Bombers were awesome. Bombers are also great for killing enemy Recon ships (FOF-s vs a Falcon pilot are another great 'surprise' ).. Im the girl momma warned you about..*
AleRiperKilt	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:12:00 - [52] Originally by: Alazontez Gallenteur This ship is a like a WWII U-Boat, meant to make the enemy spend resources in order to transport their resources. Ok, but... how many torpedoes could you carry in a U-Boat? How many of them torpedoes could you launch quickly and how many did you need to blow something? And last but not least... how many torps could you buy for the price of a U-boat? The way I see it you need a bunch of volleys from cruise missiles to destroy anything, meanwhile a U-boat would incapacitate your ship and maybe even sink it with just one torp. Maybe that was what bombs are intended for but.... --- "I live in Los Angeles, where driving is non-consensual pvp" - Arric Rohr
Gerard Deneth Caldari Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2008.10.21 23:27:00 - [53] Originally by: AleRiperKilt Ok, but... how many torpedoes could you carry in a U-Boat? Type IX U-Boat One of the most common WW2 u-boats, carried about 22 torpedoes. Originally by: AleRiperKilt How many of them torpedoes could you launch quickly and how many did you need to blow something? You could fire up to six 'fish' or torpedoes in quick succession from the bow, as they all had individual tubes. Assuming you aimed your shot well, one or two would kill a merchantman or destroyer. Originally by: AleRiperKilt And last but not least... how many torps could you buy for the price of a U-boat? The way I see it you need a bunch of volleys from cruise missiles to destroy anything, meanwhile a U-boat would incapacitate your ship and maybe even sink it with just one torp. Maybe that was what bombs are intended for but.... Google-fu has suggested an average cost of about... 4m reichmarks for a Type IXC U-boat, with an approximate cost of about 20-30k reichmarks per torpedo. Now, the numbers don't really jive that well with EVE (that u-boat cost is fully fitted) as ship costs are considerably higher compared to munitions cost, though this is somewhat offset with the fact that you'd need to use more cruises in EVE to get the same effect. Even so, the basic comparison still stands. The SB's job is for asymmetric warfare. Hit your opponents where they aren't or when they're busier dealing with other, more menacing threats. You fly in, you slash at your target and then you get out. ---------------------------- The Game's always changing under your feet; don't start moaning when you get a toe caught in the gears.


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