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Somebody help me, I think I like stealth bombers.

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Tristin Moore	Posted - 2008.10.18 07:37:00 - [1] So anyways, I recently made a new character after taking some time off eve. This time I made a Caldari guy, and I am liking missile so far. Its refreshing to have a weapon system that doesnt suck your cap dry in 15 seconds. Anyways, I have been working on a raven with cruise missile goodness, and I am really enjoying it, but thats just for missions. I need something for fun (i.e. PVP pew pew). I dont plan to actually make money doing PVP, that would require me to gate camp, wait for hours, and get a gang of more then me. What I am looking for is a fun ship that I can take out alone and have some fun with. If I happen to blow somebody up, and get a few good modules then thats great, but I dont expect to actually make any isk doing this. As such, affordability is important. I dont mind losing 25 mil or so, I can make that back in 2 hours without much effort (my friend has a super-tanked drake that I can borrow for dual boxing missions.) However, I dont want to want to invest 100s of millions into something that might get blown up as soon as I hit a gate camp (I.E. no rigged T2 cruisers). On my old account I went out with a unrigged Armageddon. I only lost about 20 mil when it blew up, but it was nearly impossible to find a good fight. Anytime I ran into a group, I lost. And anytime I found a fight I might win (I.E. a lone HAC, BC, AF, cruiser, etc) they would warp off before I could get to them. As such, most of my excursions resulted in running around for an hour trying to find a fight, only to end when I ran into a gate camp and died. The only time I actually got into a semi-fun fight was when I found another Battleship who would challenge me, and that was fairly rare. Most other people in a battleship would just warp off rather then risking their ship in a semi-even fight. Practically nobody is willing to fight you if there is more then a 25% chance they will lose. So, I am looking for a ship that might actually be able to avoid the inevitable gate camp, and sneak up on people so they cant run away from a fight. The Stealth bomber seems like it would be able to survive gate camps. Just click align, cloak, accelerate, then uncloak and warp. If somebody can target me in the .1 second between my align and cloak, then they deserve to kill me. And while I may not be able to kill anything more then a destroyer or other T2 frigate, that is definitely more action then I got in my previous attempts. My only problem is with the issue of surprise. The only viable option I can think of is to fit a condor with a MWD, and fly around a couple well traveled systems, setting bookmarks 500 km away from popular areas (mining fields, stations, etc). Then I can go back in my stealth bomber, warp 500 km off a target, cloak, and approach the area unseen. If I find a small vessel there, I can get within lock range, then suddenly uncloak and rain death from afar. And hopefully, either it will die, or I will warp off before it gets in range to shoot back. If I am lucky and find a gate camp with an interceptor tackler, I might be able to kill it off then scoot before the gang can return fire. The problem with this is that this is the only way I can approach unnoticed it will be 15 mins of approaching at least before I can open fire. If I warp in any closer, or turn on a MWD to fly faster, then the element of surprise is lost, and the target will just warp out. I have considered putting an offline probe launcher in my open high slot. When I warp into a system with several people, I can go to a safe spot, offline everything but the cloak + launcher, then find people. After that I can go to a station, offline the probe launcher, put everything else on, then warp 500 km off the target found on the probe, but this still results in a very long approach time. So, is there a more effective way to use these ships? I cant figure out an effective solution to a ship class which seems very cool to me. P.S. bombs are too pricy.
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.18 08:25:00 - [2] Best thing to do is to get a covops to drop a covert cyno and have a buddy in a black ops bridge you and several buddies in on top of someone. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR Liang - Destro/Azazel@WAR www.kwikdeath.org
Warrio Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.18 08:34:00 - [3] Originally by: Liang Nuren Best thing to do is to get a covops to drop a covert cyno and have a buddy in a black ops bridge you and several buddies in on top of someone. -Liang Then all you will have done is swapped running around for a few hours with a new logistical nightmare. sXe
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.18 08:51:00 - [4] Originally by: Warrio Originally by: Liang Nuren Best thing to do is to get a covops to drop a covert cyno and have a buddy in a black ops bridge you and several buddies in on top of someone. -Liang Then all you will have done is swapped running around for a few hours with a new logistical nightmare. ya. . . as far as pure damage and contribution to small gangs it sucks. If you have 5 or 6 of them and a good Rapier or two, you can own. . .but its only good for ganking ratters and killing carrier fighters. . .but then again, a Cerb does the job too. . . ultimatly, I'm glad the OP likes the ship - I personally scold anyone who flys one in a roaming gang or in fleet warfare - which seems to be what I'm living in as combat enviornments these days. ---- ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.10.18 09:05:00 - [5] I'm afraid these ships aren't very effective. They're annoying, and quite survivable if you've a brain, but don't actually do much unless you bring substantial numbers. At which point you'd have been better off with 'substantial numbers' of something else, instead. Don't let that get you down though. It's fun to develop doctrine in EVE and come up with an original way to do something, and quite often the suprise factor of doing something unexpected carries it's own weight. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Warrio Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.18 09:08:00 - [6] Yeah, while flying SB's is a decent bit of fun, you can tell who's having ISK worries or who is saving for a capital by who has brought one to a HAC/Recon gang. On the other hand, I fly them occasionally to be a cheap bastard. sXe
Tristin Moore	Posted - 2008.10.18 15:49:00 - [7] I thought a Stealth bomber would be a good addition to a fleet for anti-inty/EAF warfare. With good missile skills and faction missiles you can easily 1-shot an interceptor or EAF if they dont have tank mods (I.E. speed fit). And you might as well go for faction missile with only 3 launchers. I know that the damage will go down when their speed goes up, but is the reduction so ridiculous that they are immune to ships specifically designed to counter them? If a Stealth bomber cant take out other T2 frigates, then I have no idea what it is supposed to be for.
Suitonia Gallente interimo	Posted - 2008.10.18 16:20:00 - [8] You can have some fun with them in 0.0, they arn't so good solo in lowsec because you'll get instapopped by the sentrys when you engage a non-outlaw/flagged person, and most outlaws will be using ships that can take sentrys anyway which you'll only ever be able to be 'annoying' too. I guess you could camp the entrance to a FW plex or something like that, but unlikely to get much targets nor good loot. For solo stealth bomber stuff I'd recommend anchoring a small mobile bubble off -20km or so on a gate, then sitting 30km off cloaked or something, when a hauler/shuttle/frig/destroyer or whatever you think you can take warps to the gate you're camping, lob a few missles it's way. Camping alliance jumpbridges with them is also viable, just make sure you recloak or are aligned so the POS defences don't one volley you. (they take about 6-7 seconds to lock a stealth bomber I find).
Maverick 52 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.10.18 18:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Tristin Moore I thought a Stealth bomber would be a good addition to a fleet for anti-inty/EAF warfare. With good missile skills and faction missiles you can easily 1-shot an interceptor or EAF if they dont have tank mods (I.E. speed fit). And you might as well go for faction missile with only 3 launchers. I know that the damage will go down when their speed goes up, but is the reduction so ridiculous that they are immune to ships specifically designed to counter them? If a Stealth bomber cant take out other T2 frigates, then I have no idea what it is supposed to be for. You will never kill a active inty pilot w/ your Bomber. The only way is to A) web them B) catch them AFK and not moving.
Tristin Moore	Posted - 2008.10.18 21:17:00 - [10] What do you mean it cant kill an inty? I thought that stealth bombers were specifically designed to kill other T2 frigates as their purpose. That is why they cost more then your average T2 frigate. EAFs/inties are designed to disable HACs. Stealth bombers are designed to kill or scare off EAFs/inties. And HACs are designed to kill or scare off stealth bombers. Its sort of a paper-rock-scissors deal. Each ship class should have a weakness, and a purpose that it is used for. If a stealth bomber cant kill other T2 frigates, then what is the purpose?

Arowe Telak	Posted - 2008.10.18 21:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Tristin Moore What do you mean it cant kill an inty? I thought that stealth bombers were specifically designed to kill other T2 frigates as their purpose. That is why they cost more then your average T2 frigate. EAFs/inties are designed to disable HACs. Stealth bombers are designed to kill or scare off EAFs/inties. And HACs are designed to kill or scare off stealth bombers. Its sort of a paper-rock-scissors deal. Each ship class should have a weakness, and a purpose that it is used for. If a stealth bomber cant kill other T2 frigates, then what is the purpose? SB's get a role bonus to cruise missile explosion radius, but not explosion velocity. Therefore speedtanked ships of any sort will still take vastly reduced damage from stealth bomber cruise missiles. Sigs are overrated.
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.10.18 21:46:00 - [12] Its a fun ship but I haven't had to much luck with mine. Its a tuff but rewarding line to train if you want to use exploration.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.10.18 23:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Tristin Moore What do you mean it cant kill an inty? I thought that stealth bombers were specifically designed to kill other T2 frigates as their purpose. That is why they cost more then your average T2 frigate. EAFs/inties are designed to disable HACs. Stealth bombers are designed to kill or scare off EAFs/inties. And HACs are designed to kill or scare off stealth bombers. Its sort of a paper-rock-scissors deal. Each ship class should have a weakness, and a purpose that it is used for. If a stealth bomber cant kill other T2 frigates, then what is the purpose? Explosion velocity of a cruise missile: 750m/sec with max skills. How many frigates do you know that can exceed that velocity by enough to take zero damage (hint: Practically all of them) They can do a vaguely credible amount of damage by frigate standards, at 150km. Sadly, this damage has flight time latency, and the ship itself handles like a cow. So worthless if unsupported because no one hangs around for 30s just so you hit them, unable to do damage to things in it's size class, and not really a threat to anything in a larger size class, because it can't kill fast enough to survive counter fire. SBs are comedy fits, and harassment, but they're really not serious PvP ships. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Brem Watson Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.19 00:17:00 - [14] It makes me laugh when people crap on Stealth Bombers. They are fun ships to fly for one and you can add good damage while in a gang. If you are cunning enough, you can take out your enemy frigs scouting at gates with no problem. I've seen it done. Most of my kills in Eve are with my Manti. I've also gotten many pods with the Manti. It's a great surprise damage ship when you enemies are focused on your gang members. It takes skill to fly a Manti no doubt be everyone needs to remember, every ship has it's own job. It seems that people base every ship on it's ability to tank damage or produce a great amount of it.
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.10.19 01:19:00 - [15] I personally enjoy sitting cloaked in an asteroid belt, in a well traveled mission/newb system (low-sec obviously) and just wait for people. Make sure NPC's are in the belt with you by the way... You'd be surprised how many people rat in low-sec. Sit 20 - 30 away from the rats or above/below the belt. Something you can kill comes in (frig or AF's), decloak, damp, scram, launch your cruise. You can also get real close and do the decloak/launch/recloak thing. If you're close enough the missiles will still do damage even though you've cloaked back up. I forget the max range typically to do this though. Avoid pilots with T2 fit destroyers. For the love of god avoid them... Doing what I did obviously gives you the advantage of picking what to decloak and actually shoot at. Not a wide range of targets you can handle solo, but it's possible and VERY entertaining. --- Put in space whales!
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.10.19 06:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Brem Watson It makes me laugh when people crap on Stealth Bombers. They are fun ships to fly for one and you can add good damage while in a gang. If you are cunning enough, you can take out your enemy frigs scouting at gates with no problem. I've seen it done. Most of my kills in Eve are with my Manti. I've also gotten many pods with the Manti. It's a great surprise damage ship when you enemies are focused on your gang members. It takes skill to fly a Manti no doubt be everyone needs to remember, every ship has it's own job. It seems that people base every ship on it's ability to tank damage or produce a great amount of it. It's a fun ship that isn't as useful as other ships in most situations. You said as much yourself in your post. There's nothing wrong with the ship. The thing is there is a reason the enemy is "focused on your gang members", it's because you are less of a threat. The ship contributes to a gang. Your gang mates have larger scarier ships and are taking the fire while you are contributing less to the group. Again nothing "wrong" with that, but it's the reason people say the things they do about the ship. Theres a difference between a ship being fun and being the most useful choice for a given situation. If your looking for a fast locking, often ignored, easily survivable, good KM whoring ship the Manti is an excellent choice. I've done it plenty of times myself. As an FC I'd still rather that Manticore pilot bring a recon or Raven instead. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Tac Ginaz The Righteous Few	Posted - 2008.10.19 07:38:00 - [17] Sorry to ruin your parade but if you're looking into the stealth bomber to be an omgninjakiddie .. forget it. It won't work. Stealth in this game is not really stealth. The moment you jump into a system.. cloaked or not, everyone will see you in the local chat. mmmm... not very useful to 'surprise' folks isn't it? but that ain't all! The stealth bomber cannot warp cloaked. With that said, everyone will see you warp in, know your exact distance and location from where you exited warp... oh, and if you happen to warp inside ANYONE's targetting range and they lock you.. you CANT CLOAK! weee!!! But.. lets say you DO get the jump on someone. Wow, I mean, you sat on that gate for HOURS until someone was finally stupid enough to not warp to 0 ... You decloak, lock the target... FIRE those missiles... you get locked back ..crap you cant cloak. CRAP! taking insta-damage from the target's guns .. OUCH OUCH But .. I get to hit the target with mega-damage before I die right? right? pop goes your bomber. From your pod, you see your 2 missile salvos still streaking towards that target 60km away... and see the target warp out before the first volley hits it. That's the experience all SB pilots have when they try to solo. SB is not a solo ship at all.
Burn Mac Minmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.10.19 10:34:00 - [18] Originally by: Lisento Slaven I personally enjoy sitting cloaked in an asteroid belt, in a well traveled mission/newb system (low-sec obviously) and just wait for people. Make sure NPC's are in the belt with you by the way... You'd be surprised how many people rat in low-sec. Sit 20 - 30 away from the rats or above/below the belt. Something you can kill comes in (frig or AF's), decloak, damp, scram, launch your cruise. You can also get real close and do the decloak/launch/recloak thing. If you're close enough the missiles will still do damage even though you've cloaked back up. I forget the max range typically to do this though. Avoid pilots with T2 fit destroyers. For the love of god avoid them... Doing what I did obviously gives you the advantage of picking what to decloak and actually shoot at. Not a wide range of targets you can handle solo, but it's possible and VERY entertaining. Yay you can take out T1 Frigs and AF:s oh wait a min i can do that in my destroyer.
Crellion Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.19 11:36:00 - [19] SBs are a very precise tool of phsycological pressure in the hands of the best pilots. Flown by anybody else they are just gratis kills and free LOLZ... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.10.19 14:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Brem Watson It makes me laugh when people crap on Stealth Bombers. They are fun ships to fly for one and you can add good damage while in a gang. If you are cunning enough, you can take out your enemy frigs scouting at gates with no problem. I've seen it done. I don't know what gangs you fly in, but by most standards 250dps doesn't count as good damage. Good by frigate standards, yes, but ... well, I've not seen many people bringing frigates for the DPS they add. Quote: Most of my kills in Eve are with my Manti. I've also gotten many pods with the Manti. It's a great surprise damage ship when you enemies are focused on your gang members. Whilst podkilling is hilarious, it doesn't actually have all that much impact on whether you won the fight or not. It's just rubbing salt in the wounds if you do. I don't know about you, but I'd rather worry about winning first, routing second. Quote: It takes skill to fly a Manti no doubt be everyone needs to remember, every ship has it's own job. It seems that people base every ship on it's ability to tank damage or produce a great amount of it. People base every ship on it's tactical value, vs. it's opportunity cost. A stealth bomber is quite an acceptable ship, with a reasonable range, cloaking, and some firepower, and they're quite cheap. But in EVE, your biggest limiting factor is always pilot count, and that's where they fall down - they don't add the same amount of value to the gang as the same pilot flying something else. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?

Divad Ginleek Gallente Gateway Industries House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.10.19 16:46:00 - [21] What about those crazy expensive bomb things with like 6000 damage? seems like those would be fun against a bubble camp. lob one in and watch the frigs pop... thought that's what SBs were for =\. but I've never used or even seen one being used, so i have no idea of their usefulness. ::insert witty signature here::
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.19 19:23:00 - [22] Bombs are the only anti blob weapon. Fire one at a mass of ships on a station or gate and 9 times out of 10 they will try to run. Most ships that can be killed by a single bomb will get away BUT you would have opened up the way for your own fleet. Targets for a normal bomber are frigs, t1 cruisers, haulers, miners, poorly tanked BC and BS. If its nano then dont bother however inties with their MWD on and sitting still will die. Falcons can be tricky but most go down in 3 vollies, all will die to 4, fit an ECCM and you will most likely win. Do not engage another bomber, both of you will die.
Brem Watson Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.20 00:00:00 - [23] Edited by: Brem Watson on 20/10/2008 00:01:34 Originally by: Gorefacer There's nothing wrong with the ship. The thing is there is a reason the enemy is "focused on your gang members", it's because you are less of a threat. Well, the reason no one is focused on me when I'm in my Manti is because I'm about 120km out when my gang has already engaged. There is NO reason for me to be seen before the time of attack. When I'm in that ship, I'm cloaked until I need to warp or fight. This is the main reason I've owned that ship for over almost 2 years. I use the ship for what it is capable of doing which is cause extra damage and grab pods when in need.
LadyLubU2 Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.10.20 01:00:00 - [24] Where is Merin when you need him.... -- Sig: NARF FALCONS!!! Please resixe image to the maxiumum allowed filesize of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator
royal killer Amarr Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2008.10.20 01:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Maverick 52 Originally by: Tristin Moore I thought a Stealth bomber would be a good addition to a fleet for anti-inty/EAF warfare. With good missile skills and faction missiles you can easily 1-shot an interceptor or EAF if they dont have tank mods (I.E. speed fit). And you might as well go for faction missile with only 3 launchers. I know that the damage will go down when their speed goes up, but is the reduction so ridiculous that they are immune to ships specifically designed to counter them? If a Stealth bomber cant take out other T2 frigates, then I have no idea what it is supposed to be for. You will never kill a active inty pilot w/ your Bomber. The only way is to A) web them B) catch them AFK and not moving. I seriously un-agree with you. -------------------- ding ding! Wrangler: Hello and w ding ding! Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.20 01:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Crellion SBs are a very precise tool of phsycological pressure in the hands of the best pilots. Flown by anybody else they are just gratis kills and free LOLZ... this pretty much. planning to be deep in hostile 0.0? Bombers might be useful. Insta-lock after decloak and high alpha give them a nice niche, but if you try to fly like a normal ship.... - Infectious -
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.10.20 20:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Brem Watson Edited by: Brem Watson on 20/10/2008 00:01:34 Originally by: Gorefacer There's nothing wrong with the ship. The thing is there is a reason the enemy is "focused on your gang members", it's because you are less of a threat. Well, the reason no one is focused on me when I'm in my Manti is because I'm about 120km out when my gang has already engaged. There is NO reason for me to be seen before the time of attack. When I'm in that ship, I'm cloaked until I need to warp or fight. This is the main reason I've owned that ship for over almost 2 years. I use the ship for what it is capable of doing which is cause extra damage and grab pods when in need. And yet, you could have been 150+KM off in a Falcon. Warped to the spot cloaked and when the fight started been many many times more effective. We can round and round. Just because the ship isn't worthless in every situation doesn't mean it's a better choice than other ships for most situations. By you sitting 120KM off in an SB in a gang fight - your not contributing much to the success of your gang. But at least you showed up I guess. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Seragon Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.20 21:36:00 - [28] The best use of a stealth bomber I've found is camping hostile systems in 0.0. Sit cloaked and wait for your juicy targets. Take a few potshots at bigger things just to remind them you're there. Ruin moral. Take up resources to deal with you. Build paranoia and suck up the sweet carebear tears through a straw. I love my manti, but you can't treat it like a normal ship. You're not there to cause dps, just suffering.
Impolite Andevil The Shadow Knights Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.10.20 21:39:00 - [29] One thing I do like stealth bombers for is anti-recon, especially anti-falcon work. 2 stealth bombers at 30k or so will kill most falcons. Other than that they are not the most capable ships...
Neon Genesis Aliastra	Posted - 2008.10.20 22:00:00 - [30] Edited by: Neon Genesis on 20/10/2008 22:01:31 Originally by: Tristin Moore What do you mean it cant kill an inty? I thought that stealth bombers were specifically designed to kill other T2 frigates as their purpose. That is why they cost more then your average T2 frigate. EAFs/inties are designed to disable HACs. Stealth bombers are designed to kill or scare off EAFs/inties. And HACs are designed to kill or scare off stealth bombers. Its sort of a paper-rock-scissors deal. Each ship class should have a weakness, and a purpose that it is used for. If a stealth bomber cant kill other T2 frigates, then what is the purpose? In terms of what trumps what and the role of HACs and intys, stealth bombers don't even enter the equation. These threads always draw out people saying things like, 'I like stealth bombers'. The point is that pretty much everything else is more effective at doing the job of a stealth bomber. The very small niche it occupies is sitting around for a long time cloaked until you find an extremely weak target to attack. For a little fun you would be FAR better placed in an inty. _



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