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An open letter to the people of Iceland

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steveid Killed In Action	Posted - 2008.10.19 16:46:00 - [1] On behalf of the UK I would like to offer the peoples apology for the use of terrorism laws to hold assets. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of banks in your country, miner and indeed the world the misuse of a law in that way is something that as a politics student I fight against at every opportunity. To use such legislation for something so petty as public opinion is a disgusting misuse of power and acts as a shining example to those people wanting to pass such laws that a country cannot be trusted to use far reaching powers correctly and so should never be given them. Of course there will be some that don't agree, but from everyone I know in the UK and me, Iceland we wubs you :D
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.	Posted - 2008.10.19 16:57:00 - [2] I too disagree with the repeated misapplication of that body of law, but offer no apology. I accept no responsibility for state abuse of process.
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.10.19 17:02:00 - [3] First, don't think you can apologise on behalf of other people, including me. I don't know you. You don't know me. You certainly don't speak for me. Second, it was the "2001 Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act" that was used to freeze the Icelandic assets. In my opinion, a good law should stand alone as a good law. It should not need a heading for a certain type of crime it applies to. It either should apply across the board, or it shouldn't apply anywhere. Simple as that. In this case, the law as applied seems reasonable to me, and not a mention of "terrorist" in sight. The full text of the act is at: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2001/ukpga_20010024_en_2 An the relevant section is Part 2 Freezing Orders Orders 4 Power to make order (1) The Treasury may make a freezing order if the following two conditions are satisfied. (2) The first condition is that the Treasury reasonably believe thatù (a) action to the detriment of the United KingdomÆs economy (or part of it) has been or is likely to be taken by a person or persons, or (b) action constituting a threat to the life or property of one or more nationals of the United Kingdom or residents of the United Kingdom has been or is likely to be taken by a person or persons. (3) If one person is believed to have taken or to be likely to take the action the second condition is that the person isù (a) the government of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom, or (b) a resident of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom. (4) If two or more persons are believed to have taken or to be likely to take the action the second condition is that each of them falls within paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (3); and different persons may fall within different paragraphs.
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.19 17:58:00 - [4] Yeah, sorry about that Icelanders. If it's any comfort, you only got a ***-slap from those laws. We're about to get **ed up the arse by them.
Death4free Caldari ADAMA Corps Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.19 19:55:00 - [5] its their fault theyre nerfing my vaga! Eve information kiosk
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.10.19 20:08:00 - [6] It will be interesting to see how this move affects how long those particular individuals stay in office come next round of elections for the UK. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.19 20:20:00 - [7] What annoys me the most is that every time I've been to Iceland, the people there are some of the friendliest I've had the pleasure to meet and are always willing to help out. It disgusts me to see our goverment trying to shit all over the people of Iceland to be honest, and makes me ashamed to call myself English. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Xen Gin Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.10.19 21:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Verone It disgusts me to see our goverment trying to shit all over the people of Iceland to be honest, and makes me ashamed to call myself English. I don't think it's the government punishing the Icelandic people. But you should be ashamed to be English though.
Hairy Manballs	Posted - 2008.10.19 21:31:00 - [9] Personally I find it reassuring that our government will be absolute bastards in the name of protecting our investments. I'm sure there's a lesson here about giving your government far reaching "emergency" powers but then I'm also sure we should have all learned that one by now.
Zephyr Rengate Caldari dearg doom	Posted - 2008.10.19 22:03:00 - [10] Screw Island.
Croesus Caldari Titan Indurstrial	Posted - 2008.10.19 22:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Screw Island. aww, their soo cute when their angry.
Zephyr Rengate Caldari dearg doom	Posted - 2008.10.19 22:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Croesus Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Screw Island. aww, their soo cute when their angry. What makes you think i'm angry?
Croesus Caldari Titan Indurstrial	Posted - 2008.10.19 22:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Originally by: Croesus Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Screw Island. aww, their soo cute when their angry. What makes you think i'm angry? hahaha, you want me to think before i reach a conclusion. that's pretty novel coming from a brit. I think your angry because i saw it on bbc.
Lazuran Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.10.19 22:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Malcanis Yeah, sorry about that Icelanders. If it's any comfort, you only got a ***-slap from those laws. We're about to get **ed up the arse by them. If you are in the US/UK, you deserve it that way because you're not yet on the streets rioting to take the power back from those oligarchs.
Bad Borris Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.19 22:42:00 - [15] Originally by: Cmdr Sy I too disagree with the repeated misapplication of that body of law, but offer no apology. I accept no responsibility for state abuse of process. This.
zephyr1234	Posted - 2008.10.19 22:46:00 - [16] Edited by: zephyr1234 on 19/10/2008 22:46:24 Originally by: Croesus Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Originally by: Croesus Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Screw Island. aww, their soo cute when their angry. What makes you think i'm angry? hahaha, you want me to think before i reach a conclusion. that's pretty novel coming from a brit. I think your angry because i saw it on bbc. Nice generalisation. edit- zephyr rengate alt.
Benco97 Gallente The Star League	Posted - 2008.10.19 22:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Cmdr Sy I too disagree with the repeated misapplication of that body of law, but offer no apology. I accept no responsibility for state abuse of process. I couldn't have said it better. Also, please could we try and keep the race-hate in this threat down at a level where it's in the background instead of at the fore? It's really quite ugly. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Eran Laude Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.10.19 22:59:00 - [18] I am concerned with the misuse of terrorism legislation by the government, when normal financial laws could have been used in lieu without causing such a diplomatic furore. However, I offer no apology to Iceland on behalf of anyone in the UK. I have nothing against Iceland, hell I'd still love to visit at a time when British people weren't liable to get lynched on the streets of Reykjavik [jk ] but surely someone there realised that an economy booming to 12x the actual size that it would have been under normal circumstances is a very, very, very bad idea given that the market was liable to go bust for years? And ultimately, while I won't vote for him at the next election, Brown has acted as any British government would, ignoring the terrorism bit, and secured the interests of British savers . . . at least, for a while . . .
Croesus Caldari Titan Indurstrial	Posted - 2008.10.19 23:53:00 - [19] Originally by: zephyr1234 Edited by: zephyr1234 on 19/10/2008 22:46:24 Originally by: Croesus Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Originally by: Croesus Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Screw Island. aww, their soo cute when their angry. What makes you think i'm angry? hahaha, you want me to think before i reach a conclusion. that's pretty novel coming from a brit. I think your angry because i saw it on bbc. Nice generalisation. edit- zephyr rengate alt. when your comment deserved so much more, sheep.
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.19 23:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Xen Gin Originally by: Verone It disgusts me to see our goverment trying to shit all over the people of Iceland to be honest, and makes me ashamed to call myself English. I don't think it's the government punishing the Icelandic people. But you should be ashamed to be English though. I'm not ashamed to be English, but I am ashamed of our government.
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.19 23:58:00 - [21] Edited by: Malcanis on 19/10/2008 23:58:11 Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Malcanis Yeah, sorry about that Icelanders. If it's any comfort, you only got a ***-slap from those laws. We're about to get **ed up the arse by them. If you are in the US/UK, you deserve it that way because you're not yet on the streets rioting to take the power back from those oligarchs. Advice noted. Where are you from to be giving it?
Xen Gin Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.10.20 06:57:00 - [22] Edited by: Xen Gin on 20/10/2008 07:02:54 Originally by: Benco97 Originally by: Cmdr Sy I too disagree with the repeated misapplication of that body of law, but offer no apology. I accept no responsibility for state abuse of process. I couldn't have said it better. Also, please could we try and keep the race-hate in this threat down at a level where it's in the background instead of at the fore? It's really quite ugly. WTH? The race card already? What races? British and Icelandic are nations, not races. But, what I would like to say, Is my local council would like it's money back. We need to pay our street cleaners and Maternity Nurses et al! You wouldn't want to cause the death of innocent children would you Iceland?!
TimMc Gallente The Motley Crew	Posted - 2008.10.20 11:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Xen Gin Originally by: Verone It disgusts me to see our goverment trying to shit all over the people of Iceland to be honest, and makes me ashamed to call myself English. I don't think it's the government punishing the Icelandic people. But you should be ashamed to be English though. I'm not ashamed to be English, but I am ashamed of our government. Yeah most british are, and I seriously hope Liberal Democrats or at least Conservatives get in power next time. Down with the nanny state Labour.
Voltain BEER Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:27:00 - [24] Just hold on a second, in this case it was the Icelandic government that failed to regulate their banking system. These banks then went on to transfer all of their money out of the UK just days before going belly up leaving UK based investors with nothing in their accounts, only the assets remained. Personally IÆm not a fan of the way our government is stripping the individual of some freedoms, and the way major decisions on our countryÆs future are not put out on a public referendum, but for the moment this is the government that we voted in (not the leader IÆll hasten to add) and they took a step to protect the public. For once, they didnÆt want to see the man on the street screwed. What the hell do we need to apologise for? If the Icelandic people (who IÆm sure are all very nice and all that, just like anyone else) are upset, maybe they should be looking a little closer to home, at their own governments failed financial policies which ultimately lead to the demise of independent banking in their country, the UK had no hand in these Banks collapsing. I wonder what the thousands of them that live in the UK think about this action that may at least see them get something back from their investments/local authority taxes. DesuSig
Chib Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:53:00 - [25] gordon brown is my local mp also i told him you said "there was no lag in eve" so he said "there is no money in iceland" seriously tho all this could of been avoided had you just reimbursed me ---------------------------------------------
Titus Vulso Amarr Minbari Research Institute	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:57:00 - [26] The British government acted under the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001, specifically Part 2, Article 4. The Act is in fact very broadly based and says that assets can be frozen in the UK if the Treasury "reasonably believe" that "action to the detriment of the United Kingdom's economy (or part of it) has been or is likely to be taken by a person or persons, or action constituting a threat to the life or property of one or more nationals of the United Kingdom..." The UK Governments complaint was that Iceland was not prepared to compensate UK investors equally but was protecting its domestic savers first. To all the Brits saying "I'm ashamed", "I apoligise for our countries actions". Stop the ****ing brown nosing already.
Frankinator Malevolent Emo Herders Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.10.20 13:54:00 - [27] Forum mod bomb incoming! EVERYONE GET DOWN!
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.10.20 14:58:00 - [28] Edited by: Jacob Mei on 20/10/2008 14:58:28 Originally by: Titus Vulso The British government acted under the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001, specifically Part 2, Article 4. The Act is in fact very broadly based and says that assets can be frozen in the UK if the Treasury "reasonably believe" that "action to the detriment of the United Kingdom's economy (or part of it) has been or is likely to be taken by a person or persons, or action constituting a threat to the life or property of one or more nationals of the United Kingdom..." The UK Governments complaint was that Iceland was not prepared to compensate UK investors equally but was protecting its domestic savers first. To all the Brits saying "I'm ashamed", "I apoligise for our countries actions". Stop the ****ing brown nosing already. Could you provide more of that bill section please? To me after reading it it sounds like its designed to work against an individual (for example, the US siezing Bin Laden's bank accounts) instead of one country siezing the assets of another. I'm genuninely interested in finding out how the UK is saying they can apply their anti terror act to this situation when its clearly being applyed to another sov. nation and not a rogue nation, terror cell or individual. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:18:00 - [29] Could've been worse if has a Thatcheresque leader in power. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.	Posted - 2008.10.20 19:54:00 - [30] Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 20/10/2008 19:55:46 Originally by: Jacob Mei To me after reading it it sounds like its designed to work against an individual (for example, the US siezing Bin Laden's bank accounts) instead of one country siezing the assets of another. A "person" can be a corporate entity, as they have legal personhood. That passage covers seizure of company assets (presumably also those of charities and other registered bodies), not just a human person's assets. That is what happened. So far as I am aware, no sovereign assets were frozen, just those of banks. Though there will be provision for that also.

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