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Ruban Boatbuyer	Posted - 2008.10.20 15:13:00 - [1] IÆm training up for Marauders for missioning and am unsure whether to go with cruise or torps. I will be replacing my cruise CNR which runs with 3 Navy BCU and 7 Navy Cruise launchers. How do you fit a Torp Golem to make it effective as a missioner? What rigs do you recommend and is it essential to use the extra mid slot for a Target Painter or will the extra damage of the torps kill the smaller targets quick enough?
Termopan	Posted - 2008.10.20 15:16:00 - [2] defenetlly use missile flight time rigs on the golem ..as for the mid slots use a target painter because works well with cruisers and battlecruisers not only with frigs javelin torps should get u to around 50+ km range and thats all u need to run a lvl 4 ...and the advantage of torp missiles is that they dont get destroyed by defender missiles from rats :) so u hit full dmg everytime
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.20 15:18:00 - [3] Termo's right. Missile range rigs (velocity and flighttime). One target painter will surfice. Afterall, you get a bonus to it. And for the range, you'll be using javelin torps, so you should instapop BC, and most cruisers. And ofc, the usual drones for the frigs. Dont go cruise golem tho. Theyre a waste of the ships fitting abilities and bonuses.
Ruban Spangler Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.10.20 15:30:00 - [4] Is it only Siege Launcher II that will take Javlin Torps? They seem a bit on the slow side.
vostok Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.20 15:30:00 - [5] Edited by: vostok on 20/10/2008 15:32:39 Don't use flight time. Though flight time rigs give you a tiny bit more range on eft, when you are shooting at something that is moving away from you for example when its orbitting you (ie when it matters) the flight speed will get there much quicker and therefore give you a higher effective range. Also because the torps get there sooner, with velocity rigs I have never shot a volly of torps to find that the target has been popped by the last volly. Which in theory isn't a problem anyway because you're meant to look at those sorts of things, but in practice 100% concentration for extended periods of time isn't feasable. Also, you dont need a target painter tbh, you will hit any BS for max damage even using rage torps because mission BS weigh in at 700m sig radius. Even cruisers are 300m so take 100% damage from javelins. And there is no point not using T2 ammo since some of it is cheaper than T1 ammo. Faction just isn't worth it imo but if you wanna blow all your earnings there I'm not going to stop you :) My fitting is: 4 siege launcher II 2 tractor beam 1 salvager 1 XL Shield booster II 2 shield boost amp II 2 incul field II 2 true sansha cap recharger 3 cnbcu 1 beta capacitor flux coil (dont know you might get away with a T2 depending on your missile rigging skills) 2 hydraulic bay thruster I's 5 hammerhead II Edit: typos
RInama Sent InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.10.20 15:48:00 - [6] I will be flying a torp golem this week and i wanted to thank you for the idea to use 2x speed rigs you made a good point. However you are wrong about npc sig radius its an easy mistake though i made the same one a bit ago if you look more carefully you will see that the number you see for them is sig diameter so you have to divide that number by 2 so you do indeed need a target painter. 249.99 KM Locking? AF MK II
vostok Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:01:00 - [7] Originally by: RInama Sent I will be flying a torp golem this week and i wanted to thank you for the idea to use 2x speed rigs you made a good point. However you are wrong about npc sig radius its an easy mistake though i made the same one a bit ago if you look more carefully you will see that the number you see for them is sig diameter so you have to divide that number by 2 so you do indeed need a target painter. Hmmm thats interesting, doesnt actuly say what the size is its just size in meters : / I guess I assumed ccp would give us useful info lol. But my fitting can't really cope with a missing med slot without gimping the already shocking tank. Also: 00:32:33 Combat Your Inferno Torpedo hits Gistior Haunter, doing 1429.9 damage. If I can do that to a destroyer, I think cruisers will die fast enough :D
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:03:00 - [8] Originally by: vostok Hmmm thats interesting, doesnt actuly say what the size is its just size in meters : / I guess I assumed ccp would give us useful info lol. But my fitting can't really cope with a missing med slot without gimping the already shocking tank. Also: 00:32:33 Combat Your Inferno Torpedo hits Gistior Haunter, doing 1429.9 damage. If I can do that to a destroyer, I think cruisers will die fast enough :D True, a Target Painter gets you a damage increase even on npc battleships as their sig radius is indeed smaller than the explo radius of torps. With good cap and shield skills I would advice to replace the two cap rechargers for a 100mn afterburner and a named target painter. Golem benefits alot from these modules and if you have some practice in missions you barely never get into cap issues (except Blockade missi, grrr) A Power diagnostics in low slot is a good thing aswell as its boost shield tank and cap. To that destroyer hit, you were only able to score such a massive damage hit because the destroyer unluckily had its mwd activated and weren't above the 550m/s mark yet to outrun torp damage. on non-mwding cruisers you appreciate a target painter as you need often as much volleys for a cruiser as for the battleships. If not more considering HAC like npc cruisers.
vostok Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki With good cap and shield skills I would advice to replace the two cap rechargers for a 100mn afterburner and a named target painter. Golem benefits alot from these modules and if you have some practice in missions you barely never get into cap issues (except Blockade missi, grrr) A Power diagnostics in low slot is a good thing aswell as its boost shield tank and cap. To do that, realisticly, you're going to need a gisti booster. Otherwise you drop your up to 500 dps tank down to 291 with all level 5 skills before you switch the painter or AB on which will again drop it down. In fact even with a gist x-type (which will give you just enough cpu) you will still tank only 243 dps assuming max skills. If you're going to dump anything drop the amps imo, but even then I dont fancy your chances lol.
slothe Caldari Murky Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.20 18:06:00 - [10] my fitting- 4x siege t2 2x tractor 1x salvager 1 l t2 sb 3x t2 rat specific hardners 1x t2 painter 1x cap rechargers t2 100mn ab t2 1x cap flux t2 3x domination bcu (same stats t2 betetr fitting) Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I 5x hammergheads t2 5 x hobgoblin t2 mix jav / standard torps / faction torps the range with my skills is- normal torps up to 40km javelin torps up to 56km plenty of range for most npc. large sb over xl as it almost permaruns, less need to manage repping.
Wannabehero Caldari Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.10.20 18:28:00 - [11] A Navy Large Shield Booster works great for the golem. However, to get a permarun setup for any torp fitting that doesn't use deadspace shield boosters, you almost definitely need to bite the bullet and fit a cap injector. Hey, I swear it's not nearly as bad as it sounds! I hear the pithi-B small shield booster fit is popular, all you need is one Cap Flux Coil II to perma-run 2 Pithi-B boosters. -- Don't harsh my mellow
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.10.20 22:52:00 - [12] I plan to use this setup once my character gets into the Golem: [Golem, L's Golem - Kin/Therm] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Damage Control II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II Target Painter II Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hammerhead II x5 The tank is more than adequate for Level 4s and it basically permaruns (salvagers off) with max cap skills and 5% cap recharge and cap amount hardwirings. Might try to find a way to fit an AB on it... that would be even better. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. Selling Gallente, Minmatar and SoE faction goodies (including Virtue implants). I am looking for a good 0.0 corp/alliance. Convo if interested.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.10.21 02:43:00 - [13] [Golem, Missions] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Explosion Dampening Field Caldari Navy Explosion Dampening Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Hammerhead II x5 Change the 3x hardener to suit the mission, typically changing the hardeners to 1x primary damage, 1x secondary and 1x invuln works well enough but there are "better" ways out there if you research. High slots you can fit what you want, although I recommend 3 tractors. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Ruban Spangler Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.10.21 08:43:00 - [14] My main interest in the Golem is to increase my ISK generation from missions. The idea was easier looting and salvage for roughly the same tank and damage as the CNR. Given lots of level 4Æs have rats over 70 - 100km away, wont I be spending a lot of ISK making time slow boating towards rats if I use Torps?
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.10.21 09:58:00 - [15] Originally by: Ruban Spangler My main interest in the Golem is to increase my ISK generation from missions. The idea was easier looting and salvage for roughly the same tank and damage as the CNR. Given lots of level 4Æs have rats over 70 - 100km away, wont I be spending a lot of ISK making time slow boating towards rats if I use Torps? Not if you draw full room aggro at the beginning, and kill off everything in range. A single torp or target painter is all you need to draw aggro - even if it comes up short. At any rate, I don't intend to fully replace my CNR with my Golem, but will let the mission dictate which ship I use. Some are obviously better in a CNR or Nighthawk than a Golem. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. Selling Gallente, Minmatar and SoE faction goodies (including Virtue implants). I am looking for a good 0.0 corp/alliance. Convo if interested.
royal killer Amarr Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2008.10.21 10:24:00 - [16] Is it just me or do I get the feeling that target painters will be mandatory in the Quantum Rise patchLast time I was on the test server, it was, don't know about now tho -------------------- ding ding! Wrangler: Hello and w ding ding! Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners.
Elitia	Posted - 2008.10.21 11:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Termopan defenetlly use missile flight time rigs on the golem ..as for the mid slots use a target painter because works well with cruisers and battlecruisers not only with frigs javelin torps should get u to around 50+ km range and thats all u need to run a lvl 4 ...and the advantage of torp missiles is that they dont get destroyed by defender missiles from rats :) so u hit full dmg everytime Termo you noob you don't fly torp boats
adriaans Amarr Ankaa.	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:02:00 - [18] the fit i will use when its built: [Golem, dual pith b, dual TP] Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Damage Control II Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Pith A-Type Explosion Dampening Field Ballistic Deflection Field II Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Wasp II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 not sure if dual target painters will help much compared to just 1, but tank is good enough so if it increases my dps i'll use it :P after all, the only reason i'm training for it is to make isk for pvp faster :( -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Kadoes Khan [Golem, Missions] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Explosion Dampening Field Caldari Navy Explosion Dampening Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Hammerhead II x5 Finally a 4 bcu setup with T2 rigs in this thread. But then you go and waste one of the rigs to the stacking penalty, why would you do that? The obvious choice is one of each. To anyone doubting T2 rigs, I say they, along with 5% range implant and L5 range skills are worth it, especially if you kill Serps. T1 or faction should be the majority of your ordnance, Javelin the exception. Any other method is simply wasting the potential of a Torp boat. I consider one TP and the Boost amp as exchangeable with AB and Medium Cap Booster, to be mixed in suitable combinations. For tank I use 1x CN Invul, 1x T2 Invul and 1x Em Hard. Never change that. You can also fit 3x Medium NOS which is useful in Angel/Serp WC for example.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.10.21 15:32:00 - [20] What do the T2 rigs go for? I haven't seen any on contracts. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. Selling Gallente, Minmatar and SoE faction goodies (including Virtue implants). I am looking for a good 0.0 corp/alliance. Convo if interested.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:02:00 - [21] Probably smarter to buy materials and bpc, but I bought mine for something around 250-300mil. That was many months ago though. Now, granted, "worth" is used a bit loosely in my previous post, as it will take a really, really, really long time to make back the money spent on T2 rigs. But the huge annoyance at torps missing targets orbiting at 39km, thereby screwing up volley damage for a good while, being spared that is what's worth the isk.
KingCappo Seigers of Doom	Posted - 2008.10.21 19:41:00 - [22] what I use against Angels: [Golem, torps missions] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Power Diagnostic System II 100MN Afterburner II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Explosion Dampening Field II Explosion Dampening Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Republic Fleet X-Large Shield Booster Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II Valkyrie II x5 Warrior II x5 I have yet to warp out of a mission with this tank, including Recon 1, WC, AE, and the Blockade.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.10.21 19:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Qui Shon Finally a 4 bcu setup with T2 rigs in this thread. But then you go and waste one of the rigs to the stacking penalty, why would you do that? The obvious choice is one of each. You are correct but I'm already well passed 60km, I'd rather my missiles get there faster then get an extra 1.4KM range, personal preference really as nothing regularly orbits that far away in my missions. Quote: I consider one TP and the Boost amp as exchangeable with AB and Medium Cap Booster, to be mixed in suitable combinations. For tank I use 1x CN Invul, 1x T2 Invul and 1x Em Hard. Never change that. Cap booster is worthless, the setup I posted can perma run it's tank and the 2x TP's, no reason for it. The 2x TP comes in very handy if you switch to T1 torps as they have a 450m radius as opposed to 350m of the javelins. Really you could ditch 1x TP but what are you going to stick in there? the setup doesn't need more tank the only other thing I could think of is a drone nav comp to get your drones from target A to B faster. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Kadoes Khan I consider one TP and the Boost amp as exchangeable with AB and Medium Cap Booster, to be mixed in suitable combinations. For tank I use 1x CN Invul, 1x T2 Invul and 1x Em Hard. Never change that. Cap booster is worthless, the setup I posted can perma run it's tank and the 2x TP's, no reason for it. The 2x TP comes in very handy if you switch to T1 torps as they have a 450m radius as opposed to 350m of the javelins. Really you could ditch 1x TP but what are you going to stick in there? the setup doesn't need more tank the only other thing I could think of is a drone nav comp to get your drones from target A to B faster. Worthless? Lol, no it's not. But that's because I misread your 1.3-1.7 billion isk booster as something cheaper. Too much isk into one mod for me. I use a "cheap" Pith Large myself, and that's not going to permarun. Especially if you add an AB as well. So our cap considerations are rather different. Must be nice though, freeing up an additional slot like that. It's not "if" you switch to T1 torps, T1 or faction should be your bread and butter. Every time you're forced to use Javs, you're throwing away ~150dps compared to T1, and almost 300dps compared to faction. I try to make do without the boost amp most of the time, but for some things it's needed, like AE bonus.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:56:00 - [25] Quote: It's not "if" you switch to T1 torps, T1 or faction should be your bread and butter. Every time you're forced to use Javs, you're throwing away ~150dps compared to T1, and almost 300dps compared to faction. I try to make do without the boost amp most of the time, but for some things it's needed, like AE bonus. Eh, faction torps run usually around 2k per torp so your shooting off 8k ISK every volley can get expensive. Might work well if you get decent buy order set up that can keep up with your use. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Arakidias Murky Inc. Power Of 3	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Kadoes Khan Quote: It's not "if" you switch to T1 torps, T1 or faction should be your bread and butter. Every time you're forced to use Javs, you're throwing away ~150dps compared to T1, and almost 300dps compared to faction. I try to make do without the boost amp most of the time, but for some things it's needed, like AE bonus. Eh, faction torps run usually around 2k per torp so your shooting off 8k ISK every volley can get expensive. Might work well if you get decent buy order set up that can keep up with your use. 1-2 volleys per cruiser 1 volley per bc 2-4 volleys per BS.
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2008.10.21 23:36:00 - [27] You can use your target painter to aggro rats .Btw youll have 108km range with long range targeting lvl4 Originally by: Ruban Spangler Given lots of level 4Æs have rats over 70 - 100km away, wont I be spending a lot of ISK making time slow boating towards rats if I use Torps?
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.10.21 23:53:00 - [28] Edited by: Kadoes Khan on 21/10/2008 23:53:26 Quote: 1-2 volleys per cruiser 1 volley per bc 2-4 volleys per BS. This can be done with javelins. T1 can also easily do it(some cruisers would take 3-4 unless you paint). Javelins are usually around 500-1000ish, T1 closer to 200. It's very difficult to justify faction ammo in missions as in a lot of cases all it does is increase your DPS on EFT but won't increase your actual kill speed unless you have a fair bit of experience and can split your launchers on multiple targets. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:27:00 - [29] Originally by: Kadoes Khan Edited by: Kadoes Khan on 21/10/2008 23:53:26 Quote: 1-2 volleys per cruiser 1 volley per bc 2-4 volleys per BS. This can be done with javelins. T1 can also easily do it(some cruisers would take 3-4 unless you paint). Javelins are usually around 500-1000ish, T1 closer to 200. It's very difficult to justify faction ammo in missions as in a lot of cases all it does is increase your DPS on EFT but won't increase your actual kill speed unless you have a fair bit of experience and can split your launchers on multiple targets. Can't make two volley BS kills with Javelins, that's what faction is for. Well, if you can, it won't be often. With faction, the low bounty ones will often pop in two.
Arakidias Murky Inc. Power Of 3	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Kadoes Khan Edited by: Kadoes Khan on 21/10/2008 23:53:26 Quote: 1-2 volleys per cruiser 1 volley per bc 2-4 volleys per BS. This can be done with javelins. T1 can also easily do it(some cruisers would take 3-4 unless you paint). Javelins are usually around 500-1000ish, T1 closer to 200. It's very difficult to justify faction ammo in missions as in a lot of cases all it does is increase your DPS on EFT but won't increase your actual kill speed unless you have a fair bit of experience and can split your launchers on multiple targets. No it can not be done with javelins. When warhead upgrades IV to V increase makes the difference in taking only 2 volleys for certain battleships then javelins most certainly wont cut it.

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