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Capt Jita
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Posted - 2008.10.21 15:34:00 -
[1]
Prolly been discussed before, but I have an idea.
CCP needs to come up with some way for players to challenge these bot miners. Right click a miner and issue a challenge...say a simple mathematical challenge out of a selection of five. No response within a minute and Bingo...the Miner turns red. I know it's simplistic but hey, something needs to be done about the isk miners. AFK miners could stop mining for a few..dunno much about mining though.
Suggestions? Thoughts? Flames
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Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.10.21 16:02:00 -
[2]
Hello Capt,
Interesting idea, but I don't think it's really feasable. I had a different idea posted on my website on how to get rid of both the bots and AFK miners.
-Bunyip
Running for a seat on the Council of Stellar Management.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Capt Jita
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Posted - 2008.10.21 18:44:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Capt Jita on 21/10/2008 18:45:22 Hiya Bunny....along the same lines as yours but Players do the raiding. Give missioners some fun and a change of pace. Try to leave the devs out, just an announcement that triggers some kind of flag where they are fair game after 5 min....red to everybody for say 15 min.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.22 10:55:00 -
[4]
Capt, Here's my opinion, yes this would be kind of nice, but also many people mine with multiple clients. For example I run the hauler, and two hulks at the same time. If some ass keeps warping into the belt challenging all my clients over and over. Well thats about the time I get the smartbombing domis out for the little bastard. But I do think that you are on to something, the problem is this mechanic would quickly be abused. People who are sitting at war target gatecamps. I know I'm not always at the keyboard, I go make a drink or get something to eat and come back to some challenege window and my wreck. Because I wasn't the 23/7 gamer I should have been. But yes I think you have a good idea, but it would be very difficult to implement while allowing safe guards for people who are eating a sandwich or posting on the forums or watching a tv show while mining.
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Capt Jita
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Posted - 2008.10.22 14:21:00 -
[5]
Glad to hear a Miners point of view, thanks for the input.
There has to be someway to stop the macro miners and creat some fun for real players at the same time. Thanks all I have to go away from the internet for awhile cause of work. Will be back in a month and hopefully see some ideas.
There's gotta be a way without hurting the real miners....................don't wanna do that at all.
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Cpt Lumis
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Posted - 2008.10.22 14:57:00 -
[6]
Not going to pretend to know the answer but i would really like to see something done also.
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Elena Morin'staal
Minmatar Tau Online Explorator Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.22 15:16:00 -
[7]
Like the ideas on your site Bunyip :)
I wish there was a simple way to simply flag all macro miners as hostile - I know, impossible to do, but it would be great to implement, would mean you could shoot on site, penalty-less.
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Capt Jita
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Posted - 2008.10.22 18:29:00 -
[8]
Time for one more then Iam off....
For you miners out there how long would be a reasonable time to acknowledge a challenge?
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Miss Xerox
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Posted - 2008.10.22 20:59:00 -
[9]
McFly, you're in a player corp. Folks shouldn't bother you unless your behavior indicates you've gone AFK for a protracted period and your mining has not stopped (a convo attempt, for example). If they're really narfed at you they can always declare on your alliance.
It's the NPC corps that need to be fixed, disallowing the use of advanced mining ships above cruiser. Period, end of story. And banning the use of freighters (skill can't even be trained in 'nuubschool' corps, trained but not used in fallback NPC corps).
Exposed the macros to wardecs, prevent them from corp jumping all day long to avoid wars, and the macro situation will be fixed.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.22 21:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Miss Xerox McFly, you're in a player corp. Folks shouldn't bother you unless your behavior indicates you've gone AFK for a protracted period and your mining has not stopped (a convo attempt, for example). If they're really narfed at you they can always declare on your alliance.
It's the NPC corps that need to be fixed, disallowing the use of advanced mining ships above cruiser. Period, end of story. And banning the use of freighters (skill can't even be trained in 'nuubschool' corps, trained but not used in fallback NPC corps).
Exposed the macros to wardecs, prevent them from corp jumping all day long to avoid wars, and the macro situation will be fixed.
That will not stop macro mining.... just makes it harder.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.22 22:06:00 -
[11]
Well, this has clinked it. Bunyp is out for my vote.
Another one for the harass the miners camp .
When mining I am not bolted to my chair, it is useful to be capable of doing some house chores without problems (and my hulk can easily mine for 25 minutes without supervision).
If you think that people should live before the screen it is your problem.
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Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.10.23 05:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Venkul Mul When mining I am not bolted to my chair, it is useful to be capable of doing some house chores without problems (and my hulk can easily mine for 25 minutes without supervision).
If you think that people should live before the screen it is your problem.
Edit: Similarly Bunyip idea of roving NPC fleets to destroy miners is not better. It will punish people for some minute of absence.
It is pretty evident that there is a group of people that can't think that someone can find mining something worth doing and so bunch all people doing that as macrominers, but I see no reason to vote one of them to the CSM.
I beg to differ. My main flys a Hulk and a Mackinaw, and is heavily into mining and manufacturing. I explained in my webpage (if you had bothered to read) that the 5 mins warning will allow those who are AFK for a short bit to react to the message in local.
I have no problem with mining, and my Ore Distribution idea should prove that. I do have a problem with the people who get an Iteron 5 with 1 Mining Laser and set it to a field while they go to work, or those who use third party programs (aka Macros) to mine and deflate the economy of the game.
If the macroers are taken out or at least hindered pretty greatly, it will put more people into mining (since it will be an economically feasable choice) and that's the goal I'm trying to achieve. My idea in no way harasses those who pay attention to this game, even if they forum troll/handle an emergency with their kids/grab a bite or a drink.
-Bunyip
Running for a seat on the Council of Stellar Management.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Artemis Rose
Varion Galactic Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.23 05:30:00 -
[13]
Merely being in space should never be a reason to get aggresion from somebody in high sec.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bunyip
Originally by: Venkul Mul When mining I am not bolted to my chair, it is useful to be capable of doing some house chores without problems (and my hulk can easily mine for 25 minutes without supervision).
If you think that people should live before the screen it is your problem.
Edit: Similarly Bunyip idea of roving NPC fleets to destroy miners is not better. It will punish people for some minute of absence.
It is pretty evident that there is a group of people that can't think that someone can find mining something worth doing and so bunch all people doing that as macrominers, but I see no reason to vote one of them to the CSM.
I beg to differ. Bunyip flies a Hulk and a Mackinaw, and is heavily into mining and manufacturing. I explained in my webpage that the 5 mins warning will allow those who are AFK for a short bit to react to the message in local.
I have no problem with mining, and my Ore Distribution idea should prove that. I do have a problem with the people who get an Iteron 5 with 1 Mining Laser and set it to a field while they go to work, or those who use third party programs (aka Macros) to mine and deflate the economy of the game.
If the macroers are taken out or at least hindered pretty greatly, it will put more people into mining (since it will be an economically feasable choice) and that's the goal I'm trying to achieve. My idea in no way harasses those who pay attention to this game, even if they forum troll/handle an emergency with their kids/grab a bite or a drink.
I will not engage in the mudslinging that you are trying to do. I simply state the facts, and I'll let the people decide on my credentials based on my input and views in the forums which I use so often.
Speaking of mudslinging, why you feel that you should put in the same pot the people using a Iteron 5 with a mighty mining laser to mine while AFK with the people using a macro?
You do exactly what I described, you bunch together people mining in a way you don't like with macrominers to give more appeal to your proposal.
Your idea is to harass those that stay away from the keuyboard more than 5 minutes, plain and simple.
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marie blueprint
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Posted - 2008.10.25 08:49:00 -
[15]
i like the idea of the invading armada as long as players can fight and have a chance of destroying the armada and looting salvage ect |
Asheru
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.10.25 10:01:00 -
[16]
That idea in the OP would be too easily exploited. Come on, man. You know how high sec pirates operate. Do you really want to have to answer challenges from 30 kiddie pirates every 10 seconds?
A simpler idea would be to just have a 4-digit randomly generated docking code that is flashed on your screen that you have to type in before you dock (in high-sec stations only). But the code will be in irregular print (stretched/warped numbers), similar to those seen on forums to prevent anonymous spamming. This would make it impossible for a bot to redock, effectively killing their income, granted they don't have a POS in the system.
I really wouldn't mind punching in a code, if it meant I wouldn't have to compete with macro miners.
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Ackuula
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Posted - 2008.10.25 18:00:00 -
[17]
They need to put some basic macro tools in the game and just get over it already. Why would any sane person want to actively mine.
"oh god, too many people will log on and AFK mine all day"
Make the macro tools only work in low sec or zero zero and take all the premium grades of the ore types out of high sec.
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InfamousOne
Chaos Coalition Chaotic Evolution
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Posted - 2008.11.02 21:22:00 -
[18]
I usually took advantage of the macro miners when I was in highsec, since most of them mine to jet cans and then another macro comes to pick up the ore from the can. I would usually find the macro teams and flip their cans and take their ore. Macros dont usually respond if you take some of the ore (not all of it cause if the can pops the macro may know and warp off). I have also noticed that most macros have 3 things in common...1. They are in a starter corp 2. I have never seen a macro mine in a T2 barge, only the large T1 barge (forgot the name) 3. Their name is usually something completely random that makes no sense i.e. kuygdjad. I could turn quite a profit hunting macros, but if I did it to an actually player and they could verify they were not a macro by holding a conversation with me, I would gladly give there ore back since I didnt want to punish/hurt the people who worked hard for their ore. I think we should just get creative since I dont think CCP will ever do anything major to limit macros being use...just my 2 cents.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.11.02 23:31:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Mister Xerox on 02/11/2008 23:33:58 As I say every time... we don't need to implement new mechanics.
We need to kick the farmers out of NPC corps & remove their invulnerability.
Introduce a per-pilot war flag that persists on that individual (alone) no matter how many times he jumps corp. His new corp can help if he gets aggressed, but not until the attacker takes the first shot.
In new-player schools put a cap on skills that can be trained at tier 3 (not rank 3), as the 'school' simply cannot afford the 'instruction services' beyond that skill tier. Level 3 zero-quality agents at best. No freighters, no mining barges (of any type). No agent qualties can exceed zero.
In NPC corps all tier skills can be trained, but no freighters, mining barges, or POS structures can be used. Agent qualities capped at zero, no other limitations.
If the player is in a war-declarable corp then the door is wide open for what ever operations they want to conduct... they're just exposed to the same war possibilities as anyone else. Jumping corp, however, will no longer be a free escape clause (transferring to another corp does not transfer the war-flag to that corporation, but aiding the new pilot just might... such are the risks of accepting new pilots into the corp).
This will not 'stop' macros and farmers, it will only make them vulnerable to the war declaration process like everyone else.
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Hyjinx McStagger
Elko Bail Bonds
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Posted - 2008.11.02 23:56:00 -
[20]
How about a system that provides a 15 minute agro flag between *mining* players when multiple miners are mining from the same roid? The actual chance of an agro-flag could be calculated by differences in standings between the players and the quantity/value? of the roid being mined and calculated when a roid is depleted.
Thoughts? It's a game, not a job! |
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Shea Klant
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Posted - 2008.11.04 09:38:00 -
[21]
The only way to "fix" macro mining is to put some basic macro controls in the game, so that everyone can take advantage of it. With the latest server updates which expands the number of people each system can support there is no reason not to. Besides 90% of the people would just use these with multi-accounts to help stream line their 3-5 ship operation that they are currently having to micro manage.
If you want to keep the numbers of AFK miners down, make them only work in low sec/0.0. That way someone can go looking for them and have a little pirate fun.
The only other solution is CCP needs to get off their butt and add the ability to prospect in the game, exploration is weak at this, so that you can hunt down ultra valuable ore types that can only be mined with small ships and specialized lasers, and leave the big rocks to the strip mining operations.
There are only two kinds of people that whine about it macro miners. Miners who find stripped belts in high sec and assume anyone that can mine faster than them or that is part of a mining op must be a bot.
And high sec wanna-b pirates that are too scared to go to low sec or 0.0 and get mad when no one pays attention to their griefing or is using a Hulk that doesn't need to drop a can to profitably mine and there fore invulnerable as far as they are concerned.
Neither has much of a legitament gripe.
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Orodel
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Posted - 2008.11.04 12:38:00 -
[22]
Macro Mining and AFK mining are two different things. Let's face it, Mining can be boring at times. Some of the time limit solutions will jut not work, point blank. Most of you have not taken ICE mining into consideration and how long laser cycles are.
I cannot tell you how many times I manually target rocks of various sizes that I know my laser can get several cycles from, then I run to kitchen to start dinner, eat dinner, help my kids with their homework, play some online poker in the background, remote into the job to fix something that I was paged for, run to the corner store, etc... many times, I come back and the targeted rock has been gone for a long time and I just floating there AFK. I am not however macro Mining just because I do not respond to local or to someone's private message.
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Amber Michaels
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Posted - 2008.11.04 16:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Orodel Macro Mining and AFK mining are two different things. Let's face it, Mining can be boring at times. Some of the time limit solutions will jut not work, point blank. Most of you have not taken ICE mining into consideration and how long laser cycles are.
I cannot tell you how many times I manually target rocks of various sizes that I know my laser can get several cycles from, then I run to kitchen to start dinner, eat dinner, help my kids with their homework, play some online poker in the background, remote into the job to fix something that I was paged for, run to the corner store, etc... many times, I come back and the targeted rock has been gone for a long time and I just floating there AFK. I am not however macro Mining just because I do not respond to local or to someone's private message.
He is absolutely right.
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Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.11.05 01:19:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Bunyip on 05/11/2008 01:22:28 I have some ideas in the works to spice up mining, including making it far more profitable by removing T1 loot from missions and by mixing up the asteroid types in all securities of space. I don't think any one area of the game should be able to be done AFK, except skill training of course. Mining could be done AFK for short times, but so long as you check back about every cycle, you'll be fine.
I want to make mining far more interesting than it is right now, without punishing miners or other things. One of the ideas I've seen which have potential is making you have to target a vein to get a better yield on the asteroid.
Anybody who says macroers aren't a big deal obviously has never been to an ice belt or a roid belt in .9 or 1.0 space. There are less of them now then there used to be, but they still need to be dealt with. I'm not saying that my idea is perfect or even good, but it's an idea to get rid of them, and should be considered carefully with other ideas on that merit alone.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.11.05 01:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Orodel Macro Mining and AFK mining are two different things. Let's face it, Mining can be boring at times. Some of the time limit solutions will jut not work, point blank. Most of you have not taken ICE mining into consideration and how long laser cycles are.
I cannot tell you how many times I manually target rocks of various sizes that I know my laser can get several cycles from, then I run to kitchen to start dinner, eat dinner, help my kids with their homework, play some online poker in the background, remote into the job to fix something that I was paged for, run to the corner store, etc... many times, I come back and the targeted rock has been gone for a long time and I just floating there AFK. I am not however macro Mining just because I do not respond to local or to someone's private message.
I have to agree... there are many AFK miners there that are inadvertently leaving there ships behind... but I also say that being AFK in that situation is begging for trouble as well. It's not macro mining by any means.... but still a bit of an issue to some.
As for the Macro Miners... there are Corps out there who do hunt them... even in high sec.
Some funny videos to watch too. |
I SoStoned
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Posted - 2008.11.06 11:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 22/10/2008 22:27:22 Well, this has clinked it. Bunyip is out for my vote.
Another one for the harass the miners camp .
When mining I am not bolted to my chair, it is useful to be capable of doing some house chores without problems (and my hulk can easily mine for 25 minutes without supervision).
Even fully expanded a Hulk will fill it's cargo hold in 3 to 4 cycles (12 minutes). It takes less than 20 to fill a can, which is easily twice the maximum expanded cargo capacity of a Hulk.
By your above statement you admit to using macros since you can walk away for 24 minutes and not suffer cargo shutdown. Ergo, you should be banned forthwith.
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Mara Devortex
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Posted - 2008.11.06 13:20:00 -
[27]
hmm...cant implement this or any similiar idea without hurting us "real miners"..and could someone please show me what statistics your using to show the Eve economy is deflated? Seriously since this arguement has been used quite a bit regarding Macros etc..id like to see your info. i was actualy somewhat leaning on this one till the predictable but inevitable mention of essentialy converting all NPC corp players to trial accounts..then i realized where this was all going..uh uh nope cant support.
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Belmarduk
Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.07 09:51:00 -
[28]
Originally by: I SoStoned
Even fully expanded a Hulk will fill it's cargo hold in 3 to 4 cycles (12 minutes). It takes less than 20 to fill a can, which is easily twice the maximum expanded cargo capacity of a Hulk.
By your above statement you admit to using macros since you can walk away for 24 minutes and not suffer cargo shutdown. Ergo, you should be banned forthwith.
Dont be silly It takes me about 33 minutes to fill my hulk with ice. The difference between me and a MM is that my ship,(when the cargo is full) just stands there and does nothing. A MM¦s ship empties its cargo - rinse repeat 23/7. You should be a bit more careful about accusing people of macromining... Myself as on a sideline, iceminer for about 3 years now , who you have no idea how much I hate MM , can reply touchy about comments like this... MM destroy the ice-prices and are CHEATING - I imagine them sitting in their MM offices watching 30 PC drinking coffee and image how I smash their head into one of the PC screens spilling their coffee..... Greetings Belmarduk
Mainchar:
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.07 12:58:00 -
[29]
Originally by: I SoStoned
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 22/10/2008 22:27:22 Well, this has clinked it. Bunyip is out for my vote.
Another one for the harass the miners camp .
When mining I am not bolted to my chair, it is useful to be capable of doing some house chores without problems (and my hulk can easily mine for 25 minutes without supervision).
Even fully expanded a Hulk will fill it's cargo hold in 3 to 4 cycles (12 minutes). It takes less than 20 to fill a can, which is easily twice the maximum expanded cargo capacity of a Hulk.
By your above statement you admit to using macros since you can walk away for 24 minutes and not suffer cargo shutdown. Ergo, you should be banned forthwith.
Smoke less Stoned. It damage your brain.
Not all people has exumers 5 and use T2 mining crystals .
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Exlegion
New Light
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Posted - 2008.11.07 14:52:00 -
[30]
I have to say, the idea is noble, but I can see this, if implemented, being used as a griefing tool/looking for easy targets rather than its intended use, especially in high sec.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
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