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Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.22 02:25:00 - [1] Please put them back. Remember when they were stacking nerfed with TCs/TEs, and nobody ever used them? Yeah, now why do you want to make them stacking nerfed again? Leave them as they are now, they're the only weapon rig that's even remotely useful, and it's nice having something useful other than tank/grid rigs to pick from. But really, instead of stacking nerfing locus rigs, the solution is to un-nerf all the other weapon rigs. Thanks to that stacking nerf, damage/ROF rigs are completely useless. It's not like it would really unbalance anything, they're already balanced by the high calibration use and increase in weapon fitting requirements. Or just compare them to tank/grid rigs. All the good gank rigs are stacking nerfed (if you re-nerf locus rigs), while all the good tank rigs are stacking-free. If you want to rig your ship for tank, you've got a nice selection of very effective rigs to pick from. On the other hand, if you want to rig for gank, you have essentially nothing. Why should it be unbalanced like this?
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.10.22 02:28:00 - [2] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 22/10/2008 02:28:30 Locus rigs were broken - it was bug that they were not stacked with other modules. They are still useful if you dont want to use TE/TC - you can always put locus instead. Also tank rigs are stacking nerfed - both aux pumps and resist rigs do stack. Only trimarks dont (neither do PDUs for shield/cap etc).
Murkon Salesgirl Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.22 02:47:00 - [3] The entire rig lineup is ... rigged. Only a few are useful and the rest are bad. Why even have them at all? Waste of database space.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.10.22 02:51:00 - [4] Signed boost rigs, dont stack nerf em. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.10.22 03:01:00 - [5] the pulse apoc _is_ rediculous: one of those and a tracking linking scimitar/oneiros next to it for 160km optimal range (and insane pulse tracking) outdamages any two long range BS... let alone the other nifty stuff the logistics can throw in - putting the gist back into logistics
Zana Kito	Posted - 2008.10.22 03:15:00 - [6] Originally by: Roemy Schneider the pulse apoc _is_ rediculous: one of those and a tracking linking scimitar/oneiros next to it for 160km optimal range (and insane pulse tracking) outdamages any two long range BS (lie)... let alone the other nifty stuff the logistics can throw in So you need 1 Apoc and at least 1 logistics for it to be doing less dps than 2 sniper BS?? HUH? ps. This isnt why the apoc is nuts.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.10.22 04:16:00 - [7] Un-nerf all weapon rigs please. Only un-nerfing range rigs is a terrible idea, either all of the weapon rigs or none of them. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:25:00 - [8] Oh well was good while it last I guess . ________________ God is my Wingman
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:39:00 - [9] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 22/10/2008 08:39:03 Originally by: Zana Kito Originally by: Roemy Schneider the pulse apoc _is_ rediculous: one of those and a tracking linking scimitar/oneiros next to it for 160km optimal range (and insane pulse tracking) outdamages any two long range BS (lie)... let alone the other nifty stuff the logistics can throw in So you need 1 Apoc and at least 1 logistics for it to be doing less dps than 2 sniper BS?? HUH? ps. This isnt why the apoc is nuts. You could reach around 130 easily without support. 3x locus + 3x TE + scorch + combat booster.
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:58:00 - [10] Originally by: Deva Blackfire You could reach around 130 easily without support. 3x locus + 3x TE + scorch + combat booster. Solution would be either to nerf Apoc's bonus down to 5% or nerf Scorch :) As it is on SiSi now, Locus are just as useless as other weapon rigs.

Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:03:00 - [11] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Originally by: Deva Blackfire You could reach around 130 easily without support. 3x locus + 3x TE + scorch + combat booster. Solution would be either to nerf Apoc's bonus down to 5% or nerf Scorch :) As it is on SiSi now, Locus are just as useless as other weapon rigs. Sure - and then 10% on zealot (thx to locus it also gets 130km range before boosters). And then what? Geddon? Locus was the overpowered rig and was brought back in line - plain and simple. Rigs were (and some still are) too good anyways for something that was supposed to create effect weaker than modules.
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:09:00 - [12] Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 22/10/2008 09:10:34 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Sure - and then 10% on zealot (thx to locus it also gets 130km range before boosters). And then what? Geddon? Locus was the overpowered rig and was brought back in line - plain and simple. Rigs were (and some still are) too good anyways for something that was supposed to create effect weaker than modules. They were overpowered(to an extent) rig and got brought into uselessness. Yes, there're other rigs too good, there are far more completely useless rigs on the other hand. And increasing the number of latter doesn't make game more interesting. If anything CCP could've tinkered with the % boost of the locus rigs instead of stacking penalization. Zealot's different in that it's tailored to be long range ship and is useless at anything else. Apoc, while having lesser bonus percentage wise, still has it better in absolute though.
SkyCrane	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:37:00 - [13] I'd like to see that rigs didn't get stacking panelty with the modules.Even if we'd have to accept a slight reduction in base effect ------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: Please feel free to ignore typoes... I suck at typing... :)
Myra2007 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:03:00 - [14] The change doesn't really help the rig situation. But i still think its a good move to cut range down a bit on the more extreme setups. My zealot is gonna cry though. -- Originally by: Merin Ryskin Allow me to summarize the dev blog in a much simpler way: Dear players: F*** YOU. Love, CCP.
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:09:00 - [15] Rigs have horrendous side effects and are not as good as modules, would like to see them overhauled into someone more functional. They should also look at expanding rigs based on hull size: frigate, cruiser, battleship and capital. Some rigs are just horrendously expensive for small ships that lack survivability.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:30:00 - [16] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 22/10/2008 11:30:25 Honestly, I'd sooner just have all the weapon rigs stop being stacking nerfed with modules, and provide a alternative to tank rigs (where the most important tank rigs are not stacking nerfed with modules since there are no modules which affect those values). It would provide a wider choice of useful rigs, and boost gank a bit. Locus rigs were a bit OP thanks to the lack of stacking nerf with modules, but that could've been solved in other ways rather then making them totally useless. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.10.22 12:25:00 - [17] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 22/10/2008 11:30:25 Honestly, I'd sooner just have all the weapon rigs stop being stacking nerfed with modules, and provide a alternative to tank rigs (where the most important tank rigs are not stacking nerfed with modules since there are no modules which affect those values). It would provide a wider choice of useful rigs, and boost gank a bit. Locus rigs were a bit OP thanks to the lack of stacking nerf with modules, but that could've been solved in other ways rather then making them totally useless. This There are 2 Weapon Rigs in use atm, Optimal on Laser ships and Falloff on Aks based ships, fist one because it don¦t stacks, second one because they are cheap and give a serious advantage in common 20km Range fights. Also the Powergrid penalty realy gimps many ships where this Rigs could be usefull something like reduced Optimal for Damage and Tracking Rigs and reduced Tracking on Optimal/Falloff Rigs would be more in line, making them more usefull for many ships. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Chi Quan Perkone	Posted - 2008.10.22 16:09:00 - [18] /in for a rig rebalance just don't allow 2+ of the same type on a single ship, (possibly) no stacking. voila: speed issue solved, nerfpatch prevented, ridiculous shield regen stopped, ridiculous prices stopped, ridiculous armor numbers stopped (those were not that out of whack, still...). and some would still need a looking into. ---- You don't have to like it - I don't blame you for not liking it.
Aprudena Gist GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.22 16:38:00 - [19] stacking nerfing these is pointless they will go from people using them to not using them and we will have another set of useless items in the game. hint we already have a ton of these due to bad design decisions like this. Rigs are expensive, can only be used on 1 ship and are removed if you have to repackage them for any reason they should be better then a normal module but these are going to be worse.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.22 19:52:00 - [20] I'm for leaving locus rigs as they are too. Pulse Apocs are a bit ridiculous right now, yes, but without locus rigs, I see a problem for Minmatar pilots to get their fleet bs to competitive ranges.

Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.10.22 20:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Zana Kito Originally by: Roemy Schneider the pulse apoc _is_ rediculous: one of those and a tracking linking scimitar/oneiros next to it for 160km optimal range (and insane pulse tracking) outdamages any two long range BS (lie)... let alone the other nifty stuff the logistics can throw in So you need 1 Apoc and at least 1 logistics for it to be doing less dps than 2 sniper BS?? HUH? ps. This isnt why the apoc is nuts. and thank you for calling me a liar: 8x mega pulse, 3x sinks, 3x locus, conflagration = 584dps @ 87316m scimitar/oneiros 4x 24% shadow tracking link (very cheap) -> +81.958% = 158878m what...? you're telling me you have room for 2 gyros on an "independant" tempest? ok... i'll admit, two megathrons can do it. but they wont have the (remote) reps or the tracking - putting the gist back into logistics
Koyama Ise Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon	Posted - 2008.10.22 21:06:00 - [22] I believe the goal of this expansion is to make as many rigs useless as possible I mean; Polycarbons will be useless, Auxiliary Thrusters will be useless and now Locus will be uesless? Or am I misunderstanding? ------ FIX THE BLOODY OVERVIEW ALREADY! SPEED NERF! RUN FOR THE HILLS!
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.10.22 21:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Roemy Schneider Originally by: Zana Kito Originally by: Roemy Schneider the pulse apoc _is_ rediculous: one of those and a tracking linking scimitar/oneiros next to it for 160km optimal range (and insane pulse tracking) outdamages any two long range BS (lie)... let alone the other nifty stuff the logistics can throw in So you need 1 Apoc and at least 1 logistics for it to be doing less dps than 2 sniper BS?? HUH? ps. This isnt why the apoc is nuts. and thank you for calling me a liar: 8x mega pulse, 3x sinks, 3x locus, Scorch = 584dps @ 87316m scimitar/oneiros 4x 24% shadow tracking link (very cheap) -> +81.958% = 158878m what...? you're telling me you have room for 2 gyros on an "independant" tempest? ok... i'll admit, two megathrons can do it. but they wont have the (remote) reps or the tracking Fixed Fleet Mega is about 330 DPS, Rohk nearly the same, don¦t got the figures in mind for a Pest. Also if you are not shooting at very fast Ships Tracking behind 100km is mostly irrelevant(even scored a hit at a 14km/s crow at 140km with my Fleet Mega before he made it out of my locking Range). This kind of speeds won¦t be any issue after the Speed Nerf anyway. Also you can¦t run cap stable or have a Tank in the Logistic with 4 Remote Tracking Enhancern so you problably will die or be forced to warp out realy fast against incomming Fire. Just saying the Tracking won¦t be the big advantage and the DPS advantage agianst 2 other BS is also not realy there. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
MalVortex Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2008.10.23 00:00:00 - [24] Cries of "OMG Scorch Apoc In Fleet Battles!" were made when the Apoc got changed. You'll note that such a configuration has never become popular in fleet fights (if seen at all). Having a hardcap of 158km - regardless of your dps - is simply too low for modern fleet combat. Beam or Tach apocs can pull similar dps at further ranges with more EHP to boot. You can then get a second one without the scythe pilot. Even if Scythe Boosted Scorch Apoc was good in fleet fights, what exactly would be the problem? Two characters specialized one effective ship all to hell and back, and its about as effective as two normal ships for that role? Wow. Your right. That does seem like it needs to be nerfed! Having unique things in EVE is bad!
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.10.23 00:07:00 - [25] Actually pulseapocs were(are?) widely used by NC. Locus rigs are also used often on beam zealots to get that 130+km range. And yes - pulse apoc hitting at 160km is a bit stupid especially with DPS it can deal with scorch (around 600 iirc - tho might be wrong here) with quite good tracking. No, i never was on recieving end of this ship but judging from whines lots of people were abusing this bug.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.10.23 01:19:00 - [26] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Actually pulseapocs were(are?) widely used by NC. Locus rigs are also used often on beam zealots to get that 130+km range. And yes - pulse apoc hitting at 160km is a bit stupid especially with DPS it can deal with scorch (around 600 iirc - tho might be wrong here) with quite good tracking. No, i never was on recieving end of this ship but judging from whines lots of people were abusing this bug. Yeah but you need 2 ships to actually make apoc reach 160km right.... ----------------------------------------- [Video] Tempest of Change
Patri Andari Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.23 01:23:00 - [27] Caldari range bonus gains a bit more of its meaning. Considering the lack of DPS of Caldari ships, any nerf to the range of other ships (via rig nerf or otherwise) is a good thing. Amirite? Patri A fool usually thinks he is a genius
Strill	Posted - 2008.10.23 01:30:00 - [28] Originally by: Patri Andari Caldari range bonus gains a bit more of its meaning. Considering the lack of DPS of Caldari ships, any nerf to the range of other ships (via rig nerf or otherwise) is a good thing. Amirite? Patri Low dps of caldari ships? The raven's damage with torps is pretty darn close to a blaster mega. Where is this low dps coming from?
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.10.23 08:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Deva Blackfire Actually pulseapocs were(are?) widely used by NC. Locus rigs are also used often on beam zealots to get that 130+km range. And yes - pulse apoc hitting at 160km is a bit stupid especially with DPS it can deal with scorch (around 600 iirc - tho might be wrong here) with quite good tracking. No, i never was on recieving end of this ship but judging from whines lots of people were abusing this bug. Yeah but you need 2 ships to actually make apoc reach 160km right.... No. I exagerated range a bit - it was 150km not 160km. Still doable on a single ship. 3x TE + 3x locus + megapulse + scorch + frentix booster (improved) = 141km optimal +10km faloff = effective 150km range. Without booster it is 123+10.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.10.23 09:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Strill Originally by: Patri Andari Caldari range bonus gains a bit more of its meaning. Considering the lack of DPS of Caldari ships, any nerf to the range of other ships (via rig nerf or otherwise) is a good thing. Amirite? Patri Low dps of caldari ships? The raven's damage with torps is pretty darn close to a blaster mega. Where is this low dps coming from? WTB 150km torps .... you might have not noticed, but folks here are talking about fleet ranges ... 150+km ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !



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