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Thieves, Pirates and the rest of the "S****and Villany"...good bye!

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Bad Bunny	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:03:00 - [1] Here's a waste of tax money that could have been spent finding terrorist or keeping guns out of schools... The U.N. Security arm has recognized that "Virtual Property" is considered "real". Ok, read that sentance a few more times, I'll wait...As such, in acordance with international treaties, theft or distruction of such can get you arrested, fined, tried and even imprisioned. You can even be SUED if you steal from someone in an online game as long as the game is pay-to-play. Great, Joe Law is going to use a SWAT team to take down the 14 year olds who raid cans in low sec. There's already cases that have been WON by people whos on-line toon was stolen from or killed! Yeah, I wana explain to 450 lb.Buba the axe murderer how I killed some guys Caracal worth 245,000,000 million in make-believe land and that's why I'm waiting for a Judge to hear the case. So now there's a "real world" threat for people who want to PvP. Well, not the PvP people, the PKers would be at risk. Cripes,can you imagine attacking someone and a text comes up your account has been flaged by INTERPOL!?!? How about the guys who post here about the 1337 way they con someone out of that persons Cap ship and stole it...Knock Knock, it's 5-Oh here to cuff you because they have the logs from the person you stole from showing exactly what you did! OMG what about the older players who just have a Pirate Alt to have fun killing with...Your at work and the Boss walks in your office and says "There's an Investigator so-n-so here to see you about stealing..?" The wack thing is there is no way to say "it'll never come to that" because it's happend and IS happening right now. You can't even say "Not in EVE!" because.... nuff said
Ziena Amani	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:14:00 - [2] Edited by: Ziena Amani on 22/10/2008 07:13:58 Fail All what you have in Eve is CCP's property, read EULA. CCP is not yankee company and does not operate in USA
steave435 Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:16:00 - [3] The thing is that the EULA states that even though it is property, it belongs to CCP, so unless you do something that makes CCP want to sue you, you'll be fine
State Security	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:36:00 - [4] Edited by: State Security on 22/10/2008 07:36:12 wow
Sang Jin Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:48:00 - [5] By using that same logic, i've murdered a few hundred virtual people in CS.. I'm going to fry for that anyway, whats blowing up someones internet spaceship going to add to it.. $100 real money gos to the first person that can get a lawyer to say 'internet spaceships' in court... to a judge.
Neyro7830 Gallente Stormfront A.W. Stormfront J.U.N.T.A.	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Sang Jin By using that same logic, i've murdered a few hundred virtual people in CS.. I'm going to fry for that anyway, whats blowing up someones internet spaceship going to add to it.. $100 real money gos to the first person that can get a lawyer to say 'internet spaceships' in court... to a judge. I am so gonna win 100$. Buahahahah ------------------------------------------------ I am not responsible for the above post, because apparently, my cat has learned how to type. :3
Zar Terra MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:10:00 - [7] I read about that, or something similar HERE I think the only real distinction here is that the the victim was physically assaulted in RL for virtual goods. So, what I thinks happened is the victim was 'mugged' for stuff that wasn't 'real' and the offenders ordered to serve time doing community service for being so f*ing stupid. The media has just added their 'spin' to it. Additionaly, as someone else has already said, everything you 'own' in EvE actually belongs to CCP. So can raiding cant really be considered 'stealing' as its never leaving the game that it belongs to. I hope that made sense. o_0 ? -= NightShifter =-**
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:21:00 - [8] Quote: CCP is not yankee company and does not operate in USA Yes it is and yes it does. Having a buisness presence in a country means that it is bound by, and can be sued by, said country's laws. That said, since ccp owns everything anyway it's a moot point, you can't exactly sue someone for damage to something you never did or never will own
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:21:00 - [9] The problem in this case is that the teens threatened the victim in real life with a knife. And because of that it is theft. If they had ganked him ingame it would have been no problem. Diary of a pod pilot
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:24:00 - [10] Find it a bit interesting how few players that actually understand what "intellectual properly" and virtual properly from the game provider means. As it is, basicly CCP (and Blizzard and EA and whatever company you decide to play some MMO for) can just cancel your accounts and take your items for whatever reason they please. They won't do it because it's counterproductive when it comes to earning money, but they can. You have no rights in online games. None. Zilch. There's rules and regulations, and everyone is obligated to follow them, but there's no rights. Noone can claim anything. You can't steal what you don't own, no? Your account lets you connect to servers and use CCPs property. That's it. I know we had two cases, when I was GM in another game, where we argued if we should ban players without them actually breaching the EULA. Mainly because they created so much commotion that we were losing quite significant amount of customers. Eventually one of them was suspended for a limited amount of time, the other got a warning. We could've banned them. Pretty simple tho, don't **** off the company that sell the service and they will likely keep you as customer.
Kira Novia	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:16:00 - [11] Just to clarify, this is more or less directed at games like Second Life. I make roughly $200.00/US via Second Life monthly. If someone steals something from that in-game, they're stealing actual property. There have been a few dozen lawsuits over such virtual theft (my friend Briana sued someone for stealing a SexGen bed) and won approx. $300.00 in damages.
Neo Rainhart Caldari Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:24:00 - [12] Damn yankee doodle dandees They never seem to amaze me with their stupid "I'll sue you m***phakaa" hassle
mahj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:40:00 - [13] http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...X7pKAD93V2C380 makes plenty of sence to me considering how much of the scamming is done by RMTs so they can support there gaming lifestyle and not hold a real job. scamming is just an overlooked criminal endevor that has finaly been caught. Oh and the items the kids scammed is worth about $70 usd on the open market. and the argument that the property is CCPs doesent hold water as it does still hold value to the user and its just like a rental car or other leased goods and theft is theft
UrsaeMajoris	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:47:00 - [14] Originally by: mahj http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...X7pKAD93V2C380 makes plenty of sence to me considering how much of the scamming is done by RMTs so they can support there gaming lifestyle and not hold a real job. scamming is just an overlooked criminal endevor that has finaly been caught. Oh and the items the kids scammed is worth about $70 usd on the open market. and the argument that the property is CCPs doesent hold water as it does still hold value to the user and its just like a rental car or other leased goods and theft is theft Perhaps you should reread the EULA carefully - no matter how much you think this "virtual property" is yours just because it sits in your hangar, in your internet spaceships account, it does not belong to you. Good luck trying to sue someone over a jita scam because, you can't.
mahj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:02:00 - [15] all depends on the laws in the country your suing from. The game rules from CCP dont even realy count as Runescapes rules are prety much the same. Courts dont care about corporations rules as they are not laws. And we are talking about LAWS here........
Nuts Nougat SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:16:00 - [16] Originally by: mahj all depends on the laws in the country your suing from. The game rules from CCP dont even realy count as Runescapes rules are prety much the same. Courts dont care about corporations rules as they are not laws. And we are talking about LAWS here........ Still doesn't matter. CCP is from Iceland. Pixels you "have" in eve is actually their stuff, on their hardware. Unless the scam includes irl methods (i.e. stealing accounts) it's your own stupid ass that's at fault for losing them pixels. ---
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:22:00 - [17] Originally by: mahj scamming is just an overlooked criminal endevor that has finaly been caught Do you understand that in the particular case that has been caught there were real fists and knives involved? Have you ever been kicked, punched or threatened with a knife to surrender your isk or ship? Has anyone here?
mahj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:22:00 - [18] CCP to operate in ANY country has to abide by that countrys laws and in the netherlands it appears that this is illegal activity. all the court had to find is that the items in question had a marketable value and was it legal to sell those items? CCPs game rules cannot be interpeted as law as much as you might want them to be. lol
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Nuts Nougat Originally by: mahj all depends on the laws in the country your suing from. The game rules from CCP dont even realy count as Runescapes rules are prety much the same. Courts dont care about corporations rules as they are not laws. And we are talking about LAWS here........ Still doesn't matter. CCP is from Iceland. Pixels you "have" in eve is actually their stuff, on their hardware. Unless the scam includes irl methods (i.e. stealing accounts) it's your own stupid ass that's at fault for losing them pixels. Not if a court decides those pixels belong to you. Which is a possible consequence of this legal decision. I also wish people would stop with this "ccp is an icelandic company who don't have to worry about american laws" crap. CCP became both an american and icelandic company in November 2006, they are as bound by us law as mc donald's and microsoft
mahj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Vrabac Originally by: mahj scamming is just an overlooked criminal endevor that has finaly been caught Do you understand that in the particular case that has been caught there were real fists and knives involved? Have you ever been kicked, punched or threatened with a knife to surrender your isk or ship? Has anyone here? But if you read the whole article you will note that this case was only about the theft the battery was another issue
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:28:00 - [21] Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 22/10/2008 10:29:54 Originally by: Gojyu Not if a court decides those pixels belong to you. Which is a possible consequence of this legal decision. I find it unlikely that a court might make such claims, seeing as agreeing to EULA is required to play the game at all. And since you agree, you're just exploiting CCP's virtual property.
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:39:00 - [22] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 22/10/2008 10:29:54 Originally by: Gojyu Not if a court decides those pixels belong to you. Which is a possible consequence of this legal decision. I find it unlikely that a court might make such claims, seeing as agreeing to EULA is required to play the game at all. And since you agree, you're just exploiting CCP's virtual property. I agree, it would be silly. The problem is, nobody's actually sure whether or not eula's are actually legally binding. To my knowledge, nobody's really been game to test it in a court of law, because of the vast ramifications for either side if they lose
Dihania Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:41:00 - [23] Originally by: mahj ... Look who's up tight. You use a service, you pay for the service, you sign a contract or in our case the EULA. You are there for bind to respect the terms of the contract and use the service respecting your rights and obligations as stated by the contract. Duh, let's play law. Why? Because some judges out there are playing law probalby, while being way behind technology, gaming, online gaming, mmos, the internetzs and so on. [hrhr] Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:52:00 - [24] Originally by: mahj But if you read the whole article you will note that this case was only about the theft the battery was another issue I read the whole article and this is what I saw: 2 older boys beat up and threatened whith a knife a younger boy in order to get something they (being children) considered to be profit. And for that they got sentenced to community service. That the journalist seems to like abusing the word "virtual" because it has a mystic sound for him is pretty normal and not to be concerned over.
mahj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:10:00 - [25] Originally by: mahj CCP to operate in ANY country has to abide by that countrys laws and in the netherlands it appears that this is illegal activity. all the court had to find is that the items in question had a marketable value and was it legal to sell those items? CCPs game rules cannot be interpeted as law as much as you might want them to be. lol please reread...
Gunja Ancient 30 ounces	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Sang Jin $100 real money gos to the first person that can get a lawyer to say 'internet spaceships' in court... to a judge. I will double it, but I want to see it in the papers Quote: Originally by: Face Palmer Petition it. Say Australia is stuck, maybe they'll move it for you.
StainLessStealRat Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Bad Bunny The wack thing is there is no way to say "it'll never come to that" because it's happend and IS happening right now. You can't even say "Not in EVE!" because.... nuff said show us proof
oodin Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:57:00 - [28] I AM SOOOOOOO GLAD I DONT LIVE IN AMERICA AND NO MATTER HOW GREAT YOU THINK YOUR COUNTRY IS AND YOUR THE WORLD POLICE ITS NOT!!!!!
Jack Gates Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.22 12:01:00 - [29] You and this thread are both incredibly stupid. Stop posting.
Eschiava Q Minmatar Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2008.10.22 13:19:00 - [30] Originally by: oodin I AM SOOOOOOO GLAD I DONT LIVE IN AMERICA AND NO MATTER HOW GREAT YOU THINK YOUR COUNTRY IS AND YOUR THE WORLD POLICE ITS NOT!!!!! Did you perhaps notice the second line of the original post? No? Well, here it is for your convenience: "The U.N. Security arm has recognized that "Virtual Property" is considered "real". " I read "The U.N. Security arm..." You see that too? Good! Now, I will assume that you understand the difference between the U.N. and America? Good, I'm glad that's straightened out!
Anarkii Minor	Posted - 2008.10.22 13:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Bad Bunny Here's a waste of tax money that could have been spent finding terrorist or keeping guns out of schools... The U.N. Security arm has recognized that "Virtual Property" is considered "real". Ok, read that sentance a few more times, I'll wait...As such, in acordance with international treaties, theft or distruction of such can get you arrested, fined, tried and even imprisioned. You can even be SUED if you steal from someone in an online game as long as the game is pay-to-play. Great, Joe Law is going to use a SWAT team to take down the 14 year olds who raid cans in low sec. There's already cases that have been WON by people whos on-line toon was stolen from or killed! Yeah, I wana explain to 450 lb.Buba the axe murderer how I killed some guys Caracal worth 245,000,000 million in make-believe land and that's why I'm waiting for a Judge to hear the case. So now there's a "real world" threat for people who want to PvP. Well, not the PvP people, the PKers would be at risk. Cripes,can you imagine attacking someone and a text comes up your account has been flaged by INTERPOL!?!? How about the guys who post here about the 1337 way they con someone out of that persons Cap ship and stole it...Knock Knock, it's 5-Oh here to cuff you because they have the logs from the person you stole from showing exactly what you did! OMG what about the older players who just have a Pirate Alt to have fun killing with...Your at work and the Boss walks in your office and says "There's an Investigator so-n-so here to see you about stealing..?" The wack thing is there is no way to say "it'll never come to that" because it's happend and IS happening right now. You can't even say "Not in EVE!" because.... nuff said lol dude, CCP owns everything, but in other games getting sued for killing someone that is **ing bull, thats why i **ing hate america's gov't, it sucks, always has, and always will!!!
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.22 13:55:00 - [32] (a) You all agreed that you do not own anything to play the game. (b) Killing ships and scamming are basic facets of game design. (c) It's not possible to legally convert ingame items to RL money. You do not have a leg to stand on if you lose RL money in a game of poker and want to sue someone, so losing RL money in a game of internet spaceship killing game (where robbery and exploding spaceships are basic game design) would be sanctionable how? That is assuming that it was legal to sell ingame items for $, and the items belonged to you rather then CCP, which are both untrue (and would be neccesary for you to have a case). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Eschiava Q Minmatar Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2008.10.22 13:56:00 - [33] Edited by: Eschiava Q on 22/10/2008 13:57:08 Amarkil, Once again, this isn't America's government, this is your ***king bleoved U.N. You fail at reading comprehension!
Marchocias Silent Ninja's Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.22 13:57:00 - [34] Originally by: oodin I AM SOOOOOOO GLAD I DONT LIVE IN AMERICA AND NO MATTER HOW GREAT YOU THINK YOUR COUNTRY IS AND YOUR THE WORLD POLICE ITS NOT!!!!! Originally by: Anarkii Minor lol dude, CCP owns everything, but in other games getting sued for killing someone that is **ing bull, thats why i *ing hate america's gov't, it sucks, always has, and always will!!! Failed. ---- Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacoughcough*aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr!!
Yendaj Minmatar Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.10.22 15:08:00 - [35] Started off well with intelligent and legible debate... Ended in flame, smack and stupidity.. Had to wait till the bottom of the first page before someone pointed out the obvious reason why it should not have turned into an American law bashing contest... U.N <<< This tbh ...2/10... Sadly no peacekeeping forces showed up :( ** Nemo Me Impune Lacessit **
highonpop Gallente Time Of Apocolypse OLD IRONSIDES	Posted - 2008.10.22 15:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Zar Terra I read about that, or something similar HERE I think the only real distinction here is that the the victim was physically assaulted in RL for virtual goods. So, what I thinks happened is the victim was 'mugged' for stuff that wasn't 'real' and the offenders ordered to serve time doing community service for being so f**ing stupid. The media has just added their 'spin' to it. Additionaly, as someone else has already said, everything you 'own' in EvE actually belongs to CCP. So can raiding cant really be considered 'stealing' as its never leaving the game that it belongs to. I hope that made sense. o_0 ? yes, but that article states "The Dutch broadcaster's English language news services reported that the victim was coerced into transferring the item to the older boys after they "kicked and struck the victim and threatened him with a knife"on several occasions last year." so if they actually beat him up in REAL LIFE and not in the game, in order to steal his stuff. then yes, thats wrong. _____________________ warp drive acti...wait, where are we going?*
Karentaki Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.22 15:16:00 - [37] Originally by: mahj all depends on the laws in the country your suing from. The game rules from CCP dont even realy count as Runescapes rules are prety much the same. Courts dont care about corporations rules as they are not laws. And we are talking about LAWS here........ AWESOME!!! goes off to create a country with a law saying "Everything in the world belongs to ME!!!" Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Bad Bunny	Posted - 2008.10.22 17:29:00 - [38] shesh a lot of bashing on USA when I never even mentioned them...ok, so maybe people should use that computer they are sitting in front of for more then games. Like finding this; http://blog.loaz.com/timwang/index.php/2005/01/31/the_first_virtual_property_law_suits_in Ok everyone! Lets bash China!

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.10.22 18:45:00 - [39] Moved to OOPE. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Arvald Caldari Ninjas N Pirates	Posted - 2008.10.22 18:54:00 - [40] Originally by: Neo Rainhart Damn yankee doodle dandees They never seem to amaze me with their stupid "I'll sue you m*phakaa" hassle The U.N. U.N U.N** not u.s you twit
Shirley Serious Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.10.22 19:10:00 - [41] huh? linky to something that says wtf this is aboot? Yes. Yes, I am.
Etchyboy Minmatar Firman AB 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.22 20:27:00 - [42] It has to do with this.. http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20081021/ap_on_hi_te/eu_netherlands_virtual_theft An for some reason people are confusing the UN, Dutch with the US.... CCP should have you take/pass a reading comprehension test in order to post on these forums. I can always look past spelling but not this...
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.10.22 20:52:00 - [43] The UN couldn't be any more UN-American than it already is. The Berlin wall came down, why can't we do the same with the UN? _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Gabrialle Amarr Sunspot Requisitions Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.10.22 20:59:00 - [44] you think this wont happen? how about this? Someone, somewhere, will try to to take someone to court for ANYTHING!
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.10.22 21:11:00 - [45] This sounds more like a way to protect things like websites with orginal graphics and what not from hackers who try to deface the website. "Virtual" goods in games are technically the intellectual property of the company that owns the rights to the game unless otherwise stated in the EULA or TOS. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.22 21:16:00 - [46] UN UN UN UN Its the UN not US, though I wouldnt be surprised if it was the US. Regardless, this is highly idiotic and this law is going to give me a headache because if you were playing a shooter and killed somebody, would that be murder? Or if you made his rank go down, would that be usurping his earnings? How about if a tv show was showing a fictional story about somebody getting scammed, would that also mean that its punishable by law? Seriously, if this becomes law its going to ruin gaming and give any court justice the biggest headaches of his career.
Shirley Serious Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.10.22 21:28:00 - [47] What? I'm still not seeing anything about this "U.N. Security arm" that has apparently done something? ? Yes. Yes, I am.
oodin Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2008.10.22 22:21:00 - [48] Edited by: oodin on 22/10/2008 22:24:20 Originally by: Eschiava Q Originally by: oodin I AM SOOOOOOO GLAD I DONT LIVE IN AMERICA AND NO MATTER HOW GREAT YOU THINK YOUR COUNTRY IS AND YOUR THE WORLD POLICE ITS NOT!!!!! Did you perhaps notice the second line of the original post? No? Well, here it is for your convenience: "The U.N. Security arm has recognized that "Virtual Property" is considered "real". " I read "The U.N. Security arm..." You see that too? Good! Now, I will assume that you understand the difference between the U.N. and America? Good, I'm glad that's straightened out! all i said was im glad i dont live in america america=http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c79_1224691513
Melakith Entar Minmatar BoB Enterprises Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2008.10.23 01:54:00 - [49] Originally by: Gojyu Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 22/10/2008 10:29:54 Originally by: Gojyu Not if a court decides those pixels belong to you. Which is a possible consequence of this legal decision. I find it unlikely that a court might make such claims, seeing as agreeing to EULA is required to play the game at all. And since you agree, you're just exploiting CCP's virtual property. I agree, it would be silly. The problem is, nobody's actually sure whether or not eula's are actually legally binding. To my knowledge, nobody's really been game to test it in a court of law, because of the vast ramifications for either side if they lose Funny thing is, the same the is true about penalty clauses in contracts (i.e. banks and such). This is because as a legal document, a contract is only a legally binding document saying one person(the contractee), will do something for someone else (the contractor) in exchange for some form of payment. The only thing that can be done if a contract is breached, depending upon the severity of the breach, is that: a) the courts will enfore the contract upon the breaching party or; b) the contract will be declared void, with both parties ending up where they started before the contract was enacted.
Yoshimako	Posted - 2008.10.23 01:57:00 - [50] Originally by: steave435 The thing is that the EULA states that even though it is property, it belongs to CCP, so unless you do something that makes CCP want to sue you, you'll be fine damn so i guess killing anything BoB is really off the cards now then?
Buyus Stuffius	Posted - 2008.10.23 02:01:00 - [51] not buying the act. phail
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.10.23 03:29:00 - [52] Originally by: Gunja Ancient Originally by: Sang Jin $100 real money gos to the first person that can get a lawyer to say 'internet spaceships' in court... to a judge. I will double it, but I want to see it in the papers I'll see your $200, and raise you another $200 if you can get someone from Fox News to say it on TV. ---
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2008.10.23 03:50:00 - [53] if this true does this mean if I return to the UK I get a Asbo? Trinity Corporate Services
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.23 06:12:00 - [54] Amusingly enough, this means nothing for Eve. The game will be no different, the legislation that covers it will be no different and we'll be no more liable to be sued in any way shape because of two simple facts that combined, will blow any "omg he stole my internet spaceship pixels" case out of the water. All items, currency, and posessions including characters on any of CCP's servers remain their sole property. You are merely paying to log in and use their property and service, nothing more. This is stated in the EULA you read and agree to before (a) creating an account (b) installing the game files on your computer and (c) you log into the game after any game changing patch. Coupled with this, Eve's EULA also has that wonderful clause "Game Experience May Change During Online Play" stamped on the retail box, in the TOS and in the EULA. If you want to even take it that far, Eve advertises itself as a sandbox, and openly supports scamming and piracy which isn't against the EULA or TOS. (Piracy is listed as a valid profession along with mining, trading and researching). Sorry for all you people hoping you could sue, but Eve is not a mainstream MMO, of which 99.9% have sections in their EULA banning scamming and the equivalents of piracy in their game worlds. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.10.23 07:17:00 - [55] Edited by: Myrhial Arkenath on 23/10/2008 07:19:13 ^ Finally someone who gets it In addition, as long as EVE doesn't add micro transactions (the items in runescape were directly bought with credit card if my source is correct) or allows the gain of money through the game (like second life) we can happily yarr on Diary of a pod pilot
Reven Cordelle Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.10.23 08:25:00 - [56] Originally by: oodin I AM SOOOOOOO GLAD I DONT LIVE IN AMERICA AND NO MATTER HOW GREAT YOU THINK YOUR COUNTRY IS AND YOUR THE WORLD POLICE ITS NOT!!!!! Quite, and I'm almost certain you're one of the people that consider Caps Lock is cruise-control for cool.
LoRDFoXX Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.23 09:21:00 - [57] Originally by: Kira Novia Just to clarify, this is more or less directed at games like Second Life. I make roughly $200.00/US via Second Life monthly. If someone steals something from that in-game, they're stealing actual property. There have been a few dozen lawsuits over such virtual theft (my friend Briana sued someone for stealing a SexGen bed) and won approx. $300.00 in damages. I concure. I did second life for a year and they do have problems: SL1 SL 2
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.23 10:32:00 - [58] Originally by: Verone Amusingly enough, this means nothing for Eve. The game will be no different, the legislation that covers it will be no different and we'll be no more liable to be sued in any way shape because of two simple facts that combined, will blow any "omg he stole my internet spaceship pixels" case out of the water. It does mean something for Eve actually, as the court ruled that if control over the items is shifted it is theft (under Dutch law). If this exact same case had happened with items in Eve instead of in Runescape, the verdict would've been the same. Originally by: Myrhial Arkenath ^ Finally someone who gets it In addition, as long as EVE doesn't add micro transactions (the items in runescape were directly bought with credit card if my source is correct) or allows the gain of money through the game (like second life) we can happily yarr on You and your source are contradicted by sworn testimony in the verdict. The items were acquired by ingame means. In fact, the suspect said he committed the theft because the victim had been 'lucky' getting the items and that he was jealous of that. I'll repeat my english summary of the dutch verdict here: Media have (as always) done a crappy job at reporting what has happened and members of this community have (as always) been speculating based on incomplete or inaccurate information. I've looked at the actual court decision and will summarise the motivation for the decision. (The original text is in Dutch, any mistakes in my English summary are probably my own.) Charges Charge: Suspects have stolen ingame (Runescape) items from victim; the theft was preceded by assault and battery. Suspects each deny assault and battery, each blaming the other. It is theft? The court establishes that virtual goods are actual goods as far as far as (Dutch) law is concerned. The court considered: The virtual goods had value to the victim, the suspects, and many others. Value does not have to be monetary value, something conferring an advantage in a game also has value. Control over the goods was moved from the victim to the suspects. Dutch law equates 'control' with 'possession'. Council argued that it was not theft as all actions were in line with the rules of Runescape. The court disagrees as the assault and battery preceding the theft had nothing to do with the rules of Runescape. Verdict Based on the testimonies, the court considers the charges to be adequetely proven. Suspects get convicted for "theft preceded by assault and battery".
TOZI	Posted - 2008.10.23 10:46:00 - [59] Edited by: TOZI on 23/10/2008 10:48:14 Originally by: Verone Amusingly enough, this means nothing for Eve. The game will be no different, the legislation that covers it will be no different and we'll be no more liable to be sued in any way shape because of two simple facts that combined, will blow any "omg he stole my internet spaceship pixels" case out of the water. All items, currency, and posessions including characters on any of CCP's servers remain their sole property. You are merely paying to log in and use their property and service, nothing more. This is stated in the EULA you read and agree to before (a) creating an account (b) installing the game files on your computer and (c) you log into the game after any game changing patch. Coupled with this, Eve's EULA also has that wonderful clause "Game Experience May Change During Online Play" stamped on the retail box, in the TOS and in the EULA. If you want to even take it that far, Eve advertises itself as a sandbox, and openly supports scamming and piracy which isn't against the EULA or TOS. (Piracy is listed as a valid profession along with mining, trading and researching). Sorry for all you people hoping you could sue, but Eve is not a mainstream MMO, of which 99.9% have sections in their EULA banning scamming and the equivalents of piracy in their game worlds. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again you have no idea i guess about whats a law and what is a contract or company rule. this could happen in eve depending on a countrys laws. do you honestly think that a judge cares one iota if CCP says its ok to steal in there game if he has a defendant in his court claiming he lost $300 REAL life asset? if the judge rules that a crime has been commited "theft." laws will trump rules every day.. and the whole prob is due to RMT players making income from EVE. if items in game were not worth anything then no crime has been commited.
Shirley Serious Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.10.23 11:03:00 - [60] So all this stuff about the U.N. is something someone's pulled out of thin air? and this is about that case in the Netherlands? Yes. Yes, I am.
Nissan Sentra Directive Of Creations.	Posted - 2008.10.23 11:15:00 - [61] Edited by: Nissan Sentra on 23/10/2008 11:16:33 So I read this as...... The Dutch threw some jelious kids in jail cause his buddy got lucky and he beat his a** for it. Man, imagine how many people wanna go beat the hell outta Sir Molle for all there T-2 BPOs lol. Also, How does this have anything to do with us Americans? It happened not in our country, did not include U.S. subjects, and was not tryed in our courts. For all of you peeps out there that forgot to finish high school America is over here, Europe is over there. EU, and US way diffrent. EDIT: It's about time the U.N. drove off a cliff. You Call, We haul! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=742666
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.23 11:25:00 - [62] Originally by: Nissan Sentra The Dutch threw some jelious kids in jail cause his buddy got lucky and he beat his a for it. They were convicted for theft preceded by assault and battery, they were not thrown in jail but got community service. Originally by:** Nissan Sentra Also, How does this have anything to do with us Americans? Nothing, unless you come to the Netherlands and commit a crime (such as stealing virtual goods) there. Originally by: Nissan Sentra It happened not in our country, did not include U.S. subjects, and was not tryed in our courts. So someone posted something which has nothing to do with US citizens, what do you care?
supr3m3justic3 Caldari Hakata Group Blade.	Posted - 2008.10.23 18:20:00 - [63] "the victim was coerced into transferring the item to the older boys after they "kicked and struck the victim and threatened him with a knife"on several occasions last year." OMG, that is just to funny....i would be p!ssed if i were the ones on trial, I think i would have to whoop some a$$ in real life! ____

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