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Thieves, Pirates and the rest of the "S****and Villany"...good bye!

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Bad Bunny	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:03:00 - [1] Here's a waste of tax money that could have been spent finding terrorist or keeping guns out of schools... The U.N. Security arm has recognized that "Virtual Property" is considered "real". Ok, read that sentance a few more times, I'll wait...As such, in acordance with international treaties, theft or distruction of such can get you arrested, fined, tried and even imprisioned. You can even be SUED if you steal from someone in an online game as long as the game is pay-to-play. Great, Joe Law is going to use a SWAT team to take down the 14 year olds who raid cans in low sec. There's already cases that have been WON by people whos on-line toon was stolen from or killed! Yeah, I wana explain to 450 lb.Buba the axe murderer how I killed some guys Caracal worth 245,000,000 million in make-believe land and that's why I'm waiting for a Judge to hear the case. So now there's a "real world" threat for people who want to PvP. Well, not the PvP people, the PKers would be at risk. Cripes,can you imagine attacking someone and a text comes up your account has been flaged by INTERPOL!?!? How about the guys who post here about the 1337 way they con someone out of that persons Cap ship and stole it...Knock Knock, it's 5-Oh here to cuff you because they have the logs from the person you stole from showing exactly what you did! OMG what about the older players who just have a Pirate Alt to have fun killing with...Your at work and the Boss walks in your office and says "There's an Investigator so-n-so here to see you about stealing..?" The wack thing is there is no way to say "it'll never come to that" because it's happend and IS happening right now. You can't even say "Not in EVE!" because.... nuff said
Ziena Amani	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:14:00 - [2] Edited by: Ziena Amani on 22/10/2008 07:13:58 Fail All what you have in Eve is CCP's property, read EULA. CCP is not yankee company and does not operate in USA
steave435 Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:16:00 - [3] The thing is that the EULA states that even though it is property, it belongs to CCP, so unless you do something that makes CCP want to sue you, you'll be fine
State Security	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:36:00 - [4] Edited by: State Security on 22/10/2008 07:36:12 wow
Sang Jin Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:48:00 - [5] By using that same logic, i've murdered a few hundred virtual people in CS.. I'm going to fry for that anyway, whats blowing up someones internet spaceship going to add to it.. $100 real money gos to the first person that can get a lawyer to say 'internet spaceships' in court... to a judge.
Neyro7830 Gallente Stormfront A.W. Stormfront J.U.N.T.A.	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Sang Jin By using that same logic, i've murdered a few hundred virtual people in CS.. I'm going to fry for that anyway, whats blowing up someones internet spaceship going to add to it.. $100 real money gos to the first person that can get a lawyer to say 'internet spaceships' in court... to a judge. I am so gonna win 100$. Buahahahah ------------------------------------------------ I am not responsible for the above post, because apparently, my cat has learned how to type. :3
Zar Terra MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:10:00 - [7] I read about that, or something similar HERE I think the only real distinction here is that the the victim was physically assaulted in RL for virtual goods. So, what I thinks happened is the victim was 'mugged' for stuff that wasn't 'real' and the offenders ordered to serve time doing community service for being so f*ing stupid. The media has just added their 'spin' to it. Additionaly, as someone else has already said, everything you 'own' in EvE actually belongs to CCP. So can raiding cant really be considered 'stealing' as its never leaving the game that it belongs to. I hope that made sense. o_0 ? -= NightShifter =-**
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:21:00 - [8] Quote: CCP is not yankee company and does not operate in USA Yes it is and yes it does. Having a buisness presence in a country means that it is bound by, and can be sued by, said country's laws. That said, since ccp owns everything anyway it's a moot point, you can't exactly sue someone for damage to something you never did or never will own
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:21:00 - [9] The problem in this case is that the teens threatened the victim in real life with a knife. And because of that it is theft. If they had ganked him ingame it would have been no problem. Diary of a pod pilot
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2008.10.22 08:24:00 - [10] Find it a bit interesting how few players that actually understand what "intellectual properly" and virtual properly from the game provider means. As it is, basicly CCP (and Blizzard and EA and whatever company you decide to play some MMO for) can just cancel your accounts and take your items for whatever reason they please. They won't do it because it's counterproductive when it comes to earning money, but they can. You have no rights in online games. None. Zilch. There's rules and regulations, and everyone is obligated to follow them, but there's no rights. Noone can claim anything. You can't steal what you don't own, no? Your account lets you connect to servers and use CCPs property. That's it. I know we had two cases, when I was GM in another game, where we argued if we should ban players without them actually breaching the EULA. Mainly because they created so much commotion that we were losing quite significant amount of customers. Eventually one of them was suspended for a limited amount of time, the other got a warning. We could've banned them. Pretty simple tho, don't **** off the company that sell the service and they will likely keep you as customer.
Kira Novia	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:16:00 - [11] Just to clarify, this is more or less directed at games like Second Life. I make roughly $200.00/US via Second Life monthly. If someone steals something from that in-game, they're stealing actual property. There have been a few dozen lawsuits over such virtual theft (my friend Briana sued someone for stealing a SexGen bed) and won approx. $300.00 in damages.
Neo Rainhart Caldari Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:24:00 - [12] Damn yankee doodle dandees They never seem to amaze me with their stupid "I'll sue you m***phakaa" hassle
mahj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:40:00 - [13] http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...X7pKAD93V2C380 makes plenty of sence to me considering how much of the scamming is done by RMTs so they can support there gaming lifestyle and not hold a real job. scamming is just an overlooked criminal endevor that has finaly been caught. Oh and the items the kids scammed is worth about $70 usd on the open market. and the argument that the property is CCPs doesent hold water as it does still hold value to the user and its just like a rental car or other leased goods and theft is theft
UrsaeMajoris	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:47:00 - [14] Originally by: mahj http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...X7pKAD93V2C380 makes plenty of sence to me considering how much of the scamming is done by RMTs so they can support there gaming lifestyle and not hold a real job. scamming is just an overlooked criminal endevor that has finaly been caught. Oh and the items the kids scammed is worth about $70 usd on the open market. and the argument that the property is CCPs doesent hold water as it does still hold value to the user and its just like a rental car or other leased goods and theft is theft Perhaps you should reread the EULA carefully - no matter how much you think this "virtual property" is yours just because it sits in your hangar, in your internet spaceships account, it does not belong to you. Good luck trying to sue someone over a jita scam because, you can't.
mahj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:02:00 - [15] all depends on the laws in the country your suing from. The game rules from CCP dont even realy count as Runescapes rules are prety much the same. Courts dont care about corporations rules as they are not laws. And we are talking about LAWS here........
Nuts Nougat SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:16:00 - [16] Originally by: mahj all depends on the laws in the country your suing from. The game rules from CCP dont even realy count as Runescapes rules are prety much the same. Courts dont care about corporations rules as they are not laws. And we are talking about LAWS here........ Still doesn't matter. CCP is from Iceland. Pixels you "have" in eve is actually their stuff, on their hardware. Unless the scam includes irl methods (i.e. stealing accounts) it's your own stupid ass that's at fault for losing them pixels. ---
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:22:00 - [17] Originally by: mahj scamming is just an overlooked criminal endevor that has finaly been caught Do you understand that in the particular case that has been caught there were real fists and knives involved? Have you ever been kicked, punched or threatened with a knife to surrender your isk or ship? Has anyone here?
mahj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:22:00 - [18] CCP to operate in ANY country has to abide by that countrys laws and in the netherlands it appears that this is illegal activity. all the court had to find is that the items in question had a marketable value and was it legal to sell those items? CCPs game rules cannot be interpeted as law as much as you might want them to be. lol
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Nuts Nougat Originally by: mahj all depends on the laws in the country your suing from. The game rules from CCP dont even realy count as Runescapes rules are prety much the same. Courts dont care about corporations rules as they are not laws. And we are talking about LAWS here........ Still doesn't matter. CCP is from Iceland. Pixels you "have" in eve is actually their stuff, on their hardware. Unless the scam includes irl methods (i.e. stealing accounts) it's your own stupid ass that's at fault for losing them pixels. Not if a court decides those pixels belong to you. Which is a possible consequence of this legal decision. I also wish people would stop with this "ccp is an icelandic company who don't have to worry about american laws" crap. CCP became both an american and icelandic company in November 2006, they are as bound by us law as mc donald's and microsoft
mahj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Vrabac Originally by: mahj scamming is just an overlooked criminal endevor that has finaly been caught Do you understand that in the particular case that has been caught there were real fists and knives involved? Have you ever been kicked, punched or threatened with a knife to surrender your isk or ship? Has anyone here? But if you read the whole article you will note that this case was only about the theft the battery was another issue
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:28:00 - [21] Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 22/10/2008 10:29:54 Originally by: Gojyu Not if a court decides those pixels belong to you. Which is a possible consequence of this legal decision. I find it unlikely that a court might make such claims, seeing as agreeing to EULA is required to play the game at all. And since you agree, you're just exploiting CCP's virtual property.
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:39:00 - [22] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 22/10/2008 10:29:54 Originally by: Gojyu Not if a court decides those pixels belong to you. Which is a possible consequence of this legal decision. I find it unlikely that a court might make such claims, seeing as agreeing to EULA is required to play the game at all. And since you agree, you're just exploiting CCP's virtual property. I agree, it would be silly. The problem is, nobody's actually sure whether or not eula's are actually legally binding. To my knowledge, nobody's really been game to test it in a court of law, because of the vast ramifications for either side if they lose
Dihania Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:41:00 - [23] Originally by: mahj ... Look who's up tight. You use a service, you pay for the service, you sign a contract or in our case the EULA. You are there for bind to respect the terms of the contract and use the service respecting your rights and obligations as stated by the contract. Duh, let's play law. Why? Because some judges out there are playing law probalby, while being way behind technology, gaming, online gaming, mmos, the internetzs and so on. [hrhr] Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:52:00 - [24] Originally by: mahj But if you read the whole article you will note that this case was only about the theft the battery was another issue I read the whole article and this is what I saw: 2 older boys beat up and threatened whith a knife a younger boy in order to get something they (being children) considered to be profit. And for that they got sentenced to community service. That the journalist seems to like abusing the word "virtual" because it has a mystic sound for him is pretty normal and not to be concerned over.
mahj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:10:00 - [25] Originally by: mahj CCP to operate in ANY country has to abide by that countrys laws and in the netherlands it appears that this is illegal activity. all the court had to find is that the items in question had a marketable value and was it legal to sell those items? CCPs game rules cannot be interpeted as law as much as you might want them to be. lol please reread...
Gunja Ancient 30 ounces	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Sang Jin $100 real money gos to the first person that can get a lawyer to say 'internet spaceships' in court... to a judge. I will double it, but I want to see it in the papers Quote: Originally by: Face Palmer Petition it. Say Australia is stuck, maybe they'll move it for you.
StainLessStealRat Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Bad Bunny The wack thing is there is no way to say "it'll never come to that" because it's happend and IS happening right now. You can't even say "Not in EVE!" because.... nuff said show us proof
oodin Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:57:00 - [28] I AM SOOOOOOO GLAD I DONT LIVE IN AMERICA AND NO MATTER HOW GREAT YOU THINK YOUR COUNTRY IS AND YOUR THE WORLD POLICE ITS NOT!!!!!
Jack Gates Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.22 12:01:00 - [29] You and this thread are both incredibly stupid. Stop posting.
Eschiava Q Minmatar Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2008.10.22 13:19:00 - [30] Originally by: oodin I AM SOOOOOOO GLAD I DONT LIVE IN AMERICA AND NO MATTER HOW GREAT YOU THINK YOUR COUNTRY IS AND YOUR THE WORLD POLICE ITS NOT!!!!! Did you perhaps notice the second line of the original post? No? Well, here it is for your convenience: "The U.N. Security arm has recognized that "Virtual Property" is considered "real". " I read "The U.N. Security arm..." You see that too? Good! Now, I will assume that you understand the difference between the U.N. and America? Good, I'm glad that's straightened out!

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