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Illedara	Posted - 2008.10.23 07:06:00 - [1] BE VERY VERY WARY Of inviting any members of the Dark Horses or any one that has been a member into a corp. Had an incident where a member attacked 2 members while in fleet then left joined up with an alt and got his alt to rep him, the alt didnt aggro so couldnt target it. Not got an issue with being killed after all its just isk's that can be earnt back. Was more the deceipt and underhanded way in which it was done. And the fact that the repairing ship wasnt aggroed so it was unable to be attacked. It appears to be a bug/exploit. More of an exploit than a bug though. Now if the mentioned corp has an issue then tough nuggets as the person involved has been in and out of that corp along with one or two others alot in just over a year. So they either knew what the person was like and did nothing or are all the same.
Aziz Hekato Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.10.23 07:13:00 - [2] -" You're fanty, his mingo" -"How can you tell us apart?" -"Fanty's prettier." _____________________________ Entering the Intergalactic Summit forum is like walking into a Startrek convention; All you'll see is a bunch of nerds and you'll go "WTF?"
Erim Kaluk Minmatar Valklear Guard	Posted - 2008.10.23 07:25:00 - [3] Shiny
Gares Vilto	Posted - 2008.10.23 07:32:00 - [4] Edited by: Gares Vilto on 23/10/2008 07:32:19 Dark Horses are a known corp of empire wardecers who target empire industrial and mission running corporations. They infiltrate a corporation with an alt. This alt then joins a mining or mission running op and kills ships of corp members. In some instances corporations have lost freighters. At the time of the attack the alt is being remotely repaired by logistics ship making it hard to kill him back. The remote repair ship cannot be killed by corp members because aggression was done by member of corporation so remotely repair does not trigger any sort of a flag. GMs response to this is that this is a perfectly fine tactic. Watch out for this guy's army of alts that practice this trick. All of these characters are run by either single guy or two closely related people: Major Stallion Everything Evil Icesail Alex Reeds Major PewPew trellabor + many more alts And his friend of Gods R Us corporation who wardecs industrial corporations I am guessing for the fun of running after their Retrievers with his Machariel. These character also appear to be run by one guy who is close friend of Dark Horses. llJosll Balthoruz Mjojjnir When you are recruiting people watch out for characters that have spent just 1 day in corp - it can signify that they were thrown out of their previous corp after causing trouble. Get references from prior corp CEOs at any time it is possible. Do not give new members roles right away or you won't be able to kick them from corp when they go rogue on you.
pentinor Lords 0f Justice	Posted - 2008.10.23 07:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Gares Vilto Edited by: Gares Vilto on 23/10/2008 07:32:19 Dark Horses are a known corp of empire wardecers who target empire industrial and mission running corporations. They infiltrate a corporation with an alt. This alt then joins a mining or mission running op and kills ships of corp members. In some instances corporations have lost freighters. At the time of the attack the alt is being remotely repaired by logistics ship making it hard to kill him back. The remote repair ship cannot be killed by corp members because aggression was done by member of corporation so remotely repair does not trigger any sort of a flag. GMs response to this is that this is a perfectly fine tactic. Watch out for this guy's army of alts that practice this trick. All of these characters are run by either single guy or two closely related people: Major Stallion Everything Evil Icesail Alex Reeds Major PewPew trellabor + many more alts And his friend of Gods R Us corporation who wardecs industrial corporations I am guessing for the fun of running after their Retrievers with his Machariel. These character also appear to be run by one guy who is close friend of Dark Horses. llJosll Balthoruz Mjojjnir When you are recruiting people watch out for characters that have spent just 1 day in corp - it can signify that they were thrown out of their previous corp after causing trouble. Get references from prior corp CEOs at any time it is possible. Do not give new members roles right away or you won't be able to kick them from corp when they go rogue on you. Bitter alt is bitter. _______
Gares Vilto	Posted - 2008.10.23 07:39:00 - [6] Originally by: pentinor Originally by: Gares Vilto Edited by: Gares Vilto on 23/10/2008 07:32:19 Dark Horses are a known corp of empire wardecers who target empire industrial and mission running corporations. They infiltrate a corporation with an alt. This alt then joins a mining or mission running op and kills ships of corp members. In some instances corporations have lost freighters. At the time of the attack the alt is being remotely repaired by logistics ship making it hard to kill him back. The remote repair ship cannot be killed by corp members because aggression was done by member of corporation so remotely repair does not trigger any sort of a flag. GMs response to this is that this is a perfectly fine tactic. Watch out for this guy's army of alts that practice this trick. All of these characters are run by either single guy or two closely related people: Major Stallion Everything Evil Icesail Alex Reeds Major PewPew trellabor + many more alts And his friend of Gods R Us corporation who wardecs industrial corporations I am guessing for the fun of running after their Retrievers with his Machariel. These character also appear to be run by one guy who is close friend of Dark Horses. llJosll Balthoruz Mjojjnir When you are recruiting people watch out for characters that have spent just 1 day in corp - it can signify that they were thrown out of their previous corp after causing trouble. Get references from prior corp CEOs at any time it is possible. Do not give new members roles right away or you won't be able to kick them from corp when they go rogue on you. Bitter alt is bitter. you might want to quote that again one character's name was changed
Illedara	Posted - 2008.10.23 07:40:00 - [7] Edited by: Illedara on 23/10/2008 07:45:20 Perfectly fine my arse, in other words they cant be bothered to sort it out. How the hell can they say its fine when you cant target a ship that is involved in a fight, that just B^&*X! As i said no issues with loosing a ship as it can be replaced, but using an alt/friend that is outside the AoE is not a tactic its a dam exploit despite whatever the lame gm's/devs say.
Mjojjnir Caldari Gods R Us	Posted - 2008.10.23 07:41:00 - [8] Originally by: Gares Vilto Edited by: Gares Vilto on 23/10/2008 07:37:14 And his friend of Gods R Us corporation who wardecs industrial corporations I am guessing for the fun of running after their Retrievers with his Machariel. These character also appear to be run by one guy who is close friend of Dark Horses. llJosll Balthoruz Mjojjnir What industrial corporations are we talking off? One of the current decced corps smacked someone through countless mails claiming they were going to do certain things to him against his will, so i thought. And we've not yet killed any mining barge/exhumer so i find that rather interesting. P.S. I hate Major Veldspar
Gares Vilto	Posted - 2008.10.23 07:50:00 - [9] Edited by: Gares Vilto on 23/10/2008 07:50:08 Originally by: Mjojjnir Originally by: Gares Vilto Edited by: Gares Vilto on 23/10/2008 07:37:14 And his friend of Gods R Us corporation who wardecs industrial corporations I am guessing for the fun of running after their Retrievers with his Machariel. These character also appear to be run by one guy who is close friend of Dark Horses. llJosll Balthoruz Mjojjnir What industrial corporations are we talking off? One of the current decced corps smacked someone through countless mails claiming they were going to do certain things to him against his will, so i thought. And we've not yet killed any mining barge/exhumer so i find that rather interesting. P.S. I hate Major Veldspar If you wardec people based on smacktalk then you should have wardec'd your friend Major Stallion and his army of alts multiple times already because he's sounds like someone who has had a couple years practice and perfected the art. My smack-fu right now is weak but by being in same local as him a few times I must say I am improving very fast.
Gares Vilto	Posted - 2008.10.23 07:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Illedara Edited by: Illedara on 23/10/2008 07:45:20 Perfectly fine my arse, in other words they cant be bothered to sort it out. How the hell can they say its fine when you cant target a ship that is involved in a fight, that just B^&*X! As i said no issues with loosing a ship as it can be replaced, but using an alt/friend that is outside the AoE is not a tactic its a dam exploit despite whatever the lame gm's/devs say. they have taken lofty away, so they had to keep something in game to keep the empire scammer population happy and subscribing there is really no way around this scam unless you protect all your empire ops all the time and even then as you might imagine a scammer like this can bring several logistics ships and be practically invincible to whatever your corp can field .... or do a lot of research into background of character at the point of recruitment and ask for references and API key .... either option is a big hassle for corps and this is why this scam is so successful
pentinor Lords 0f Justice	Posted - 2008.10.23 08:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Gares Vilto Originally by: pentinor Originally by: Gares Vilto Edited by: Gares Vilto on 23/10/2008 07:32:19 Dark Horses are a known corp of empire wardecers who target empire industrial and mission running corporations. They infiltrate a corporation with an alt. This alt then joins a mining or mission running op and kills ships of corp members. In some instances corporations have lost freighters. At the time of the attack the alt is being remotely repaired by logistics ship making it hard to kill him back. The remote repair ship cannot be killed by corp members because aggression was done by member of corporation so remotely repair does not trigger any sort of a flag. GMs response to this is that this is a perfectly fine tactic. Watch out for this guy's army of alts that practice this trick. All of these characters are run by either single guy or two closely related people: Major Stallion Everything Evil Icesail Alex Reeds Major PewPew trellabor + many more alts And his friend of Gods R Us corporation who wardecs industrial corporations I am guessing for the fun of running after their Retrievers with his Machariel. These character also appear to be run by one guy who is close friend of Dark Horses. llJosll Balthoruz Mjojjnir When you are recruiting people watch out for characters that have spent just 1 day in corp - it can signify that they were thrown out of their previous corp after causing trouble. Get references from prior corp CEOs at any time it is possible. Do not give new members roles right away or you won't be able to kick them from corp when they go rogue on you. Bitter alt is bitter. you might want to quote that again one character's name was changed Uh wut? its late and my eyes are beginning to fail meh =( _______
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.23 08:26:00 - [12] To the whiners in this thread, they can't be both scammers and exploiters, their either one or the other. Also, by default you should do a good background check on who you get into your corp, don't be an idiot about it and just offer to recruit the first guy you see without any decent background search.
pentinor Lords 0f Justice	Posted - 2008.10.23 08:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Setana Manoro To the whiners in this thread, they can't be both scammers and exploiters, their either one or the other. Also, by default you should do a good background check on who you get into your corp, don't be an idiot about it and just offer to recruit the first guy you see without any decent background search. amagawd....you posted what i twas thinkin _______
Demarcy A'Blut	Posted - 2008.10.23 09:37:00 - [14] Hi Guys As the OP posted, we got burned. Hell, our fault for not checking the employment history. We'll deal with that and not make the same mistake again. No whining on our part either. It's actually a rather clever (if sad) ruse, and if people don't make those background checks then it's likely that it will happen again to someone else. At least it's now up in black and white here, and hopefully that will lessen their chances in some way, shape or form. We'll make back those ships with no problem. The interesting thing is that he's mistakenly assumed we are a high sec mission corp. We're actually a null sec pvp corp taking a break in high sec. A wardec would be an interesting diversion. Again, thanks for the guidance and notes guys. Fly safe. Dem
Wesdon Carline Amarr Mercantile Investments Novus Aevum	Posted - 2008.10.23 10:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Erim Kaluk Shiny Such a great show/movie.
muchokiller	Posted - 2008.10.23 11:28:00 - [16] This happened to my corp as well. i understand that this method of ganking is accepted by CCP. However, i feel very strongly about not being able to attack the rep ship. If they want to infiltrate corps and destroy people fine. but it is not fair to use the game mechanics to switch on GOD mode during the gank. hammer away all day at the apoc while he gets repped by an untouchable logistics ship? fair play? i dont think so. I should not get concorded for attacking the rep ship of an agressor. the act of assisting anyone in any fight should allow aggro period. I would be interested to hear the argument FOR leaving this exploit in the game because it just makes no sense to me. Why not let us defend ourselves against agressors and thier immune little helpers? imho it is an exploit, i want to hear a response from CCP about this mechanic used in this context. its easy to make a huge snowball, all you need is a little wet snow and a very long hill. ==============Warren Buffet====================
Bumface Jones	Posted - 2008.10.23 11:54:00 - [17] My corp has had many encounters with that guy and his alts in the past. Including war decs, and ganks before concord nerf. He's even tried getting one of his alts in just recently but we didn't fall for it.
Varkyl Wydon	Posted - 2008.10.23 13:18:00 - [18] Originally by: muchokiller This happened to my corp as well. i understand that this method of ganking is accepted by CCP. However, i feel very strongly about not being able to attack the rep ship. If they want to infiltrate corps and destroy people fine. but it is not fair to use the game mechanics to switch on GOD mode during the gank. hammer away all day at the apoc while he gets repped by an untouchable logistics ship? fair play? i dont think so. I should not get concorded for attacking the rep ship of an agressor. the act of assisting anyone in any fight should allow aggro period. I would be interested to hear the argument FOR leaving this exploit in the game because it just makes no sense to me. Why not let us defend ourselves against agressors and thier immune little helpers? imho it is an exploit, i want to hear a response from CCP about this mechanic used in this context. You don't need a response from CCP on this. You just need to remember that you don't get aggro or a flag for shooting a corpmate. And since that rogue corpmate does not have aggro so there is no aggro to transfer over to the rep ship.
Dax Ee'nnach Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.23 13:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Varkyl Wydon You don't need a response from CCP on this. You just need to remember that you don't get aggro or a flag for shooting a corpmate. And since that rogue corpmate does not have aggro so there is no aggro to transfer over to the rep ship. Thanks for the black and white explanation Varkyl, I'm a noob so I didn't get this aggro flag mechanics. The explanation helped.
Sharina Mallis	Posted - 2008.10.23 13:48:00 - [20] I don't think it's an exploit or bug at all. What I do wonder is, what happens when you kick the person from the corp the moment he has aggrod?
Demarcy A'Blut	Posted - 2008.10.23 13:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Sharina Mallis I don't think it's an exploit or bug at all. What I do wonder is, what happens when you kick the person from the corp the moment he has aggrod? Sadly- - game mechanics works in his favour there too. He has to be docked to be ejected. Dem
Demitria Fernir Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.10.23 15:07:00 - [22] I like how the word "exploiter" is often used without knowning his true meaning. well, too bad using spies isn't an exploit.
FTSE	Posted - 2008.10.23 17:13:00 - [23] Well you could always repair your members while they are being attacked by this corp member, and you could also use alts outside of corp to rep your ships too. if you are allowing yourself open to this kind of attack and dont have any of your own defences around its kinda as much your own fault, as his.
Demarcy A'Blut	Posted - 2008.10.23 17:43:00 - [24] Originally by: FTSE Well you could always repair your members while they are being attacked by this corp member, and you could also use alts outside of corp to rep your ships too. if you are allowing yourself open to this kind of attack and dont have any of your own defences around its kinda as much your own fault, as his. Well... three members online in the area. All of whom were there in the mission, all of whom were scrammed and in mission ships. So, excuse my obvious noobness but how were we to have our defences around on this high sec mission? I'm intrigued and await your words of wisdom good sir.
Icesail	Posted - 2008.10.23 17:51:00 - [25] Hey Geres... Why are you posting with an alt? Why not your main? It's now obvious to me you're from Dark Syde.. Everything Evil isn't part of our doing.. Plus.. Major isn't that smart to have THAT many alts.. But still wondering why you are posting with an alt?
Gares Vilto	Posted - 2008.10.23 19:31:00 - [26] Edited by: Gares Vilto on 23/10/2008 19:33:15 Originally by: Icesail Edited by: Icesail on 23/10/2008 18:11:33 Edited by: Icesail on 23/10/2008 17:58:10 Hey Geres... Why are you posting with an alt? Why not your main? It's now obvious to me you're from Dark Syde.. Everything Evil isn't part of our doing.. Plus.. Major isn't that smart to have THAT many alts.. But still wondering why you are posting with an alt? BTW.. Thanks for the post about our corp.. Really appreciate it. But you'll notice it's only one of our corp members that tries the shoot your own corp member thing. Whatever floats your boat i guess.. Not my thing but it does fit within the game rules. And I'm all for playing the game to keep it fun. So.. If you are silly enough not to do a background check of some sort, you leave yourself open to many upsetting situations. As well.. Love the 'tough nuggets' comment.. Never heard that before. Like it a lot. Hope you don't mind if I start using it 1) It's GAres not GEres learn to spell my alt's name right, kthx! :P 2) You're entitled to your army of alts and i'm entitled to mine. 3) Tough to do a background check if you switch from alt to an alt to specifically avoid it. You will of course claim that this is not so but allow me to disagree. It is the failing point of this scam that after a few ganks it becomes harder to get into new corps and then you need to switch alts. And it doesn't take much brains to own several characters in eve. I did not start the thread about your corp by you are welcome to my posting any time of course. Just drop me an evemail in game when the next scam thread pops up where Dark Horses are involved again and i will always oblige
Revocks Bishop Amarr Project Nemesis INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.10.23 19:49:00 - [27] Edited by: Revocks Bishop on 23/10/2008 19:51:37 Pentinor thieved me also. He stole my heart on a cold September night. I remember it like it was yesterday. Sitting under the stars, drinking a glass of Merlot, he walked into my life. Wearing a Yalmuke and a very masculine curled beard, he whispered in my ear, "I CAN HAZ ISK." It was then I knew... my life would never be the same. Yes, we were young and crazy. Running through belts, hand and hand, not giving a care in the world. The smell of his Armageddon lasers blasting away... the way he smirked when he looked at his isk account... his breath, so reminiscent of a fresh spring day, standing by an open grave... it was everything to me. Of course it had to end... someday... with a letter simply saying "GTFO and give me all ur stuffz," Alas, I was no longer a girl. I was a little woman.
pentinor Polytope	Posted - 2008.10.23 19:59:00 - [28] Originally by: Revocks Bishop Edited by: Revocks Bishop on 23/10/2008 19:51:37 Pentinor thieved me also. He stole my heart on a cold September night. I remember it like it was yesterday. Sitting under the stars, drinking a glass of Merlot, he walked into my life. Wearing a Yalmuke and a very masculine curled beard, he whispered in my ear, "I CAN HAZ ISK." It was then I knew... my life would never be the same. Yes, we were young and crazy. Running through belts, hand and hand, not giving a care in the world. The smell of his Armageddon lasers blasting away... the way he smirked when he looked at his isk account... his breath, so reminiscent of a fresh spring day, standing by an open grave... it was everything to me. Of course it had to end... someday... with a letter simply saying "GTFO and give me all ur stuffz," Alas, I was no longer a girl. I was a little woman. I told you nvr to talk of that to anyone. throws revocks in his trunk
ArcDragon	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:19:00 - [29] This is definatly a hole in the game mechancis. It's not an exploit by definition but certainly has all the ear marks of one. Leave it up to the A-hole player base within Eve to figure something like this out. 1) I agree with a previous poster that the logistics ship should be able to be targeted and destroyed. 2) I agree that no aggro was initiated strickly due to them being in the same corp AND in the same gang. 3) I agree that kicking him out was not an option as he does need to be docked, it also takes 24 hours to leave a corp. 4) To expect the average player base to have extra ships/manpower to overcome a potentially infinte amount of helper logistic ships is not reasonable. 5) To spot such a scam simply by looking at an employment history, while prudent, is absolutley no worthy defence (against this scam and a multitude of other scams) As far as GM reaction, they are bound by company policy to uphold the game mechanics, so you can not be upset with them as they are just doing their job. As I like to say about such situations, "That is what the ****s said at Nuremberg." As far as this being a horrible gap in game mechanics...you are right on the money. Submit it as a bug and argue that it is not the INTENT of CCP policy or any other game mechanic to allow others to engage in combat without risk. See if that gets you somewhere, and keep me posted, this one is a good one.
Joffrey Mumbala Minmatar Murderface Incorporated	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:30:00 - [30] Originally by: ArcDragon As far as GM reaction, they are bound by company policy to uphold the game mechanics, so you can not be upset with them as they are just doing their job. As I like to say about such situations, "That is what the ****s said at Nuremberg." As I like to say "When somebody compares the acts of one group of internet spaceship pilots against another group of internet spaceship pilots to a real life genocide, somebody takes their internet spaceship game a little too seriously."

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