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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.28 03:23:00 -
[91]
Originally by: CherniyVolk
Speed is scalable. So, to address the nano issues, it does NO DIFFERENCE nerfing everyone, especially blaster boats! If it was difficult catching someone going 10K per second at only 8K! Then it's going to be just as frustrating if they are going 100m/s and you're only able to manage 80m/s. It's exactly the same movie
Oh, my god.
Distance = 15km. Range (Ship A) = 15 km Range (Ship B) = 5 km
Speed (Ship A) = 100m/s Speed (Ship B) = 600m/s
Time to enter firing range: 10km / 500m/s = 20 seconds
Now:
Speed (Ship A) = 50m/s Speed (Ship B) = 300m/s
Time to enter firing range: 10km / 250m/s = 40 seconds
So obviously, it's not the same movie if you nerf speeds all across the board, because of the simple fact that distances have remained unchanged!
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Koloch
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.28 03:23:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Koloch it's because they -were- overpowered.
Since when?
Originally by: Koloch Which really begs the question. If you have all the answers why don't you create your own game...
Because I know much better stuff to invest cash in then making a MMO? Because many people do not have the financial backing to fund creating a MMO (or any other start-up business for that matter, out of which creating a MMO is probably one of the hardest to make financially viable)? Etc?
Do you in fact have any clue what it takes to start a successful business?
Do you have any idea what it's like to balance a complex MMO like eve? oh wait never mind.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.28 03:28:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Koloch
Do you have any idea what it's like to balance a complex MMO like eve? oh wait never mind.
Obviously better then people who suggest fitting medium guns on battleships tbh.
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CherniyVolk
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.28 21:26:00 -
[94]
Apparently the Devs haven't seen this thread, so here's a bump.
What are blasters supposed to do now? Infact, can you also add in the crack enduced logic as to why lasers come anywhere near the raw DPS of Blasters; nevermind why they greatly exceed the effective DPS due to unfair range, and the fact they are so overpowered it's not even funny.
What sort of role does a blaster ship have now? Are you really serious, that a blaster BS is to fit medium size guns? Is that your answer? For real?
"I know your dumb Pyle, but do you expect me to believe you don't know left from right? *slap* Which direction did that come from Pyle?" "Right side, Sir!" "Are you SURE Pyle?" -- Sgt Hartman Full Metal Jacket
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phanthom chancer
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Posted - 2008.10.28 22:13:00 -
[95]
Originally by: CherniyVolk
"I know your dumb Pyle, but do you expect me to believe you don't know left from right? *slap* Which direction did that come from Pyle?" "Right side, Sir!" "Are you SURE Pyle?" -- Sgt Hartman Full Metal Jacket
The easiest way to make oneself look dumb is to use improper grammar when calling someone else dumb.
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Kunming
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:59:00 -
[96]
Blasterboats are on a decline since a very long time, infact since the time we cant fit 5 MFS and blast stuff outta the sky anymore. Their pilots have adapted various tricks to keep dealing the pain, like fitting cap-unstable fittings, fitting passive tanks to kill before getting killed, having a cov ops buddy help them jump on top of the target.
BUT nowadays the marginal DPS difference between blasterboats and their alternatives is so little that the efford in putting out that "oh so overpowered" blaster DPS is not justified anymore. ALSO with the next patch blaster boats will have a hard time holding their targets in sight or even land a proper hit to practice out their theoretically high DPS.
I have put in alot of thought into this matter since I really love the concept of blasterships, for me they bear the fighting style of a real veteran pilot: the odds dont look good for your ship but when u manage to turn the tide u'r pretty much guaranteed a kill... So I'm trying to figure out a role for the blastership after the next changes and have a hard time fitting it into any situation TBH.
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Nicholas DW
Infusion. G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:22:00 -
[97]
It's my fault, my skill progression has corresponded directly with the Gallente nerfs. I finished training for the Thanatos, BAM! Zulu's carrier "rebalance" blog. I start flying the Myrmidon heavily a while after it comes out, BAM! Myrmidon nerfs hit. Just finished T2 large blasters and joined a nano-heavy corporation, nano/blaster nerf.
Sorry guys, I'm the reason for all the fail.
Oh, 'bout a week 'til AWU V, so if you fly the Moros, prepare for teh ner***e.
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schwarzes Schaf
Gallente Repo Industries Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:52:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Koloch
Do you have any idea what it's like to balance a complex MMO like eve? oh wait never mind.
Obviously better then people who suggest fitting medium guns on battleships tbh.
This whole thing quite frankly makes me sick. I have sat on the sidelines for too long!
We have devs suggesting we fit medium size guns on our blaster battleships so we have a chance of fending of smaller ships because their new tracking changes render large close range weaponry ineffective! Right there I call FOUL. Without getting personal Zulu, I fully question you motives for such radical change. As has been mentioned in MANY MANY other posts, ships travelling fast were THE ISSUE.
Now I believe you Zulu are THE ISSUE!
Should we as a community accept this radical change of 'our' game system? I say no. I say we organise something serious to put the numbers to the right people and prove where they are going wrong as we have previously done. I say we stand up for ourselves and get some fricken responses like the OP has asked for!
Not to kiss your a$$ Bellum, but I 100% agree with your posts in here and your posts in other threads. I too am a multi raced battleship pilot and the suggested changes are quite frankly imo re tard erd.
To all the dirtbags who taunt 'gallente tears' - I cant dropkick you far enough. To Zulu, you are in a position with a lot of responsablity, start acting like it please.
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Fortified Teacup
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:04:00 -
[99]
Originally by: schwarzes Schaf
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Koloch
Do you have any idea what it's like to balance a complex MMO like eve? oh wait never mind.
Obviously better then people who suggest fitting medium guns on battleships tbh.
This whole thing quite frankly makes me sick. I have sat on the sidelines for too long!
We have devs suggesting we fit medium size guns on our blaster battleships so we have a chance of fending of smaller ships because their new tracking changes render large close range weaponry ineffective! Right there I call FOUL. Without getting personal Zulu, I fully question you motives for such radical change. As has been mentioned in MANY MANY other posts, ships travelling fast were THE ISSUE.
Now I believe you Zulu are THE ISSUE!
Should we as a community accept this radical change of 'our' game system? I say no. I say we organise something serious to put the numbers to the right people and prove where they are going wrong as we have previously done. I say we stand up for ourselves and get some fricken responses like the OP has asked for!
Not to kiss your a$$ Bellum, but I 100% agree with your posts in here and your posts in other threads. I too am a multi raced battleship pilot and the suggested changes are quite frankly imo re tard erd.
To all the dirtbags who taunt 'gallente tears' - I cant dropkick you far enough. To Zulu, you are in a position with a lot of responsablity, start acting like it please.
/signed
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Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:09:00 -
[100]
Is it just that you dont get it or that you act like you dont get it?
If you want to shoot cruisers with a battleship, yes fit medium weapons. Battleship weapons arent supposed to hit cruisers according to CCP. They are supposed to hit other battleships and battlecruisers. Then you still got energy neutralizers and drones available to easily take care of cruisers.
But if you really want to use your battleship as anti cruiser ship, you are in the wrong ship. If you still want to do it, fit medium weapons.
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schwarzes Schaf
Gallente Repo Industries Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:20:00 -
[101]
Edited by: schwarzes Schaf on 30/10/2008 10:20:43 The problem was we had ships that were traveling at speeds well beyond what was envisaged.
Thats all that needed changing. Now we have devs re-inventing the fracking wheel. If its not broke, dont fix it. And to your comment regarding small ships, I should have been clearer... I have NO issues with a battleship not hitting cruisers/hacs/recons in optimal. I DO have an issue with a battleship not tracking a battlecruiser in optimal.
Hope that clears it up.
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Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:25:00 -
[102]
Well and that might be a problem which can be looked into, but not that they dont hit cruisers.
And you dont call it broken right now? Ever tried for example a assault frig against a cruiser? The AF doesnt stand a chance.
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Kel Solaar
Soulbound.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:41:00 -
[103]
I posted pretty much the same thing in the Assmbly Hall, because sounds like you need to tell the things a lot of time to get listened :
So yeah what I don't understand here ( and this since I'm playing Eve), is that we are on a forum, and the advantages of it are there are many tools available to audit and listen to people, like rating for the thread and polls threads.
Let's put it this way : I'm selling a program and I'm about to make deep changes in the way it's gonna be used. Shouldn't I ask my usersbase if the changes I'm trying to implement are not gonna put them in troubles ? ( especially when those same users are paying 2 or 3 times the license to use it because of their multiple accounts )
Now let's say we are in the future in 2014 or whatever, everything is done server/client side. CCP programmers and 3d graphists are respectively using Microsoft Visual Studio 16 and Autodesk Maya 2014, each morning they launch their client to use Maya or Visual. Suddendly Autodesk say hey : we are gonna change Maya architecture, now you will need to do your modelling with Metaballs, polygons are dead! Hope we don't put the crap in everything you have done for years ? You are not happy aren't you ? ( since the software is working online CCP don't have the choice and is fu**ed ). I guess CCP would not be happy...
So It would be nice if CCP Developpers: - Play their game. - Play it well ( not doing crappy pew pew on SiSi, that does'nt count and isn't representative of TQ real server ). - Respect their customers that give them a lot of money every months to get fun. - Listen their customers. - Talk with them whenever you are doing deep changes that compromise a lot of stuff.
It's the minimal to do, but that's get really rare these days.
Now I'm waiting for the Blaster Poll, don't tell us it's impossible to put this mechanism on track, every forum on internet as it.
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Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:47:00 -
[104]
Listening to public in MMO for balancing is about the worst thing you can do.
Well not really worst thing. Listening to arguments from both sides is a good idea, and testing with people on test server. Doing a poll and using the results from the poll is a VERY bad idea.
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Kel Solaar
Soulbound.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:04:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Furb Killer Listening to public in MMO for balancing is about the worst thing you can do.
Hopefully not every programmer is like you :) Otherwise everything would be really bad... I would like to know a coder that does'nt listen the feedback of it's users, oh wait what thread we are in ?
Originally by: Furb Killer Well not really worst thing. Listening to arguments from both sides is a good idea, and testing with people on test server. Doing a poll and using the results from the poll is a VERY bad idea.
The poll would show you the general feeling of your customers, and it really depend how you formulate your poll question tbh. It give you the general direction.
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Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:09:00 -
[106]
Sure, lets do a poll if warp disruptors should be removed, and you will find out how many carebears there are exactly ;)
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Kel Solaar
Soulbound.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:14:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Furb Killer Sure, lets do a poll if warp disruptors should be removed, and you will find out how many carebears there are exactly ;)
"and it really depend how you formulate your poll question tbh."
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Thercon Jair
Minmatar InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:14:00 -
[108]
I wonder why there was no minnie BS included in the DPS graph... because blaster ships are still only second worst?
Anyway, 70+ pages of "please look into projectiles, specifically large artillery and, to a lesser extent, large autocannons" didn't achieve anything. I'm still sitting here with 54mil SP in minnie stuff, pay 14mil for a clone now and am still not really flying minnie BS even though if I get podded flying anything smaller it was a very uneconomical thing since the clone probably cost more than the ship.
Anyways, yes, I do think you have a point there. Did I mention I made an alt that flies caldari ships for ratting because minmatar ships outright suck at it and make it very hard to get enough isk flowing in to replace your ships, that die like flies due to weak tank and weak DPS? ;)
If they give you more tracking and damage it will need a whole new round of rebalancing. Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:16:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Kel Solaar
Originally by: Furb Killer Sure, lets do a poll if warp disruptors should be removed, and you will find out how many carebears there are exactly ;)
"and it really depend how you formulate your poll question tbh."
Then it isnt a fair poll anymore.
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Gods Coldblood
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:39:00 -
[110]
This is a a strange patch, i'm not totally sure what to make of it tbh. Fitting small guns or what ever just to beable to hit cruisers seems alittle bit overkill. All your effectively doing here (CCP) is making a new hybrid of nano play style at a slow pace.
Put this patch only really effects us elite style pvpers, we are the smaller target audiance, thus we always get nerfed..
I will find away, my megathron will live to fight another day, after all solo pvping in a cruiser is as boring as hell to me..
I will go test and post my thoughts later.. ____________________________ My video Way of the Warrior : Gladiator |
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Kel Solaar
Soulbound.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:59:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Kel Solaar
Originally by: Furb Killer Sure, lets do a poll if warp disruptors should be removed, and you will find out how many carebears there are exactly ;)
"and it really depend how you formulate your poll question tbh."
Then it isnt a fair poll anymore.
Not at all, if you want precise replies, you need precise questions :] Asking your customers for some feedback for specific things you are doing and listen/understand them is obviously the way to go. It allow you at least to discuss why you did those choice and maybe find some better solutions. No need to study for years to discover that.
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Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:01:00 -
[112]
Okay so we just do the straightforward poll if low sec gateguns should deal more damage. If suicide ganking should be allowed, etc. Want to guess the results?
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Kel Solaar
Soulbound.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:13:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Kel Solaar on 30/10/2008 12:13:17
Originally by: Furb Killer Okay so we just do the straightforward poll if low sec gateguns should deal more damage. If suicide ganking should be allowed, etc. Want to guess the results?
Well sorry if you don't understand I can't really do much to help you ( and the "Support this topic:" in its current form sort is kind of an Indirect Poll, if CCP has put this in the forum, that mean they do need to listen and evaluate what their customers think and want ).
Edit : Whether they do it or no is another thing.
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Gods Coldblood
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2008.10.30 13:08:00 -
[114]
ROFL, just tested afew things in this patch and oh my god.. BS's will be a thing of the past ( in solo pvp terms), BS's will only be able to fight bs's while anything smaller gets to fight everyting and have fun doing it.
I more annoyed because eve videos will become so so so so so boring (at least to me). I'm just trying to work out what else is worth flying in gallente ____________________________ My video Way of the Warrior : Gladiator |
Fung Pi
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.10.30 15:45:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Furb Killer Listening to public in MMO for balancing is about the worst thing you can do.
Well, the Gal are ****ed about blasters, the Minmatar about speed, the Amarr about rigs, the Caldari.... well they will complain if missles get hit with da bat. Seems to me like CCP is doing a good job! A deal is most fair when no party is completely happy.
We all know that what is on Sisi and what makes it to TQ is not always the same thing. At least wait till the patch to whine. |
phanthom chancer
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:10:00 -
[116]
Edited by: phanthom chancer on 30/10/2008 16:11:17
Originally by: Fung Pi
Originally by: Furb Killer Listening to public in MMO for balancing is about the worst thing you can do.
Well, the Gal are ****ed about blasters, the Minmatar about speed, the Amarr about rigs, the Caldari.... well they will complain if missles get hit with da bat. Seems to me like CCP is doing a good job! A deal is most fair when no party is completely happy.
We all know that what is on Sisi and what makes it to TQ is not always the same thing. At least wait till the patch to whine.
The difference being blasters were NOT OP, NOT in need of nerfing and weren't even targeted, they are simply victims of collateral damage.
*THAT* is why this is so dang annoying for blaster pilots. I keep seeing posts that make me think the poster actually believes that CCP was making blasters less effective on purpose and I keep reminding them of the above. So to make sure it sticks I'll do it one more time.
Blasters were not OP, were not targeted for a game balancing nerf and are simply taking collateral damage.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:03:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Gods Coldblood ROFL, just tested afew things in this patch and oh my god.. BS's will be a thing of the past ( in solo pvp terms), BS's will only be able to fight bs's while anything smaller gets to fight everyting and have fun doing it.
I more annoyed because eve videos will become so so so so so boring (at least to me). I'm just trying to work out what else is worth flying in gallente
I'll see your ROFL and raise you a LMAO..
If you really think nobody will use pulse plate abbadons, gank torp ravens, blasterokhs, and neutdomi's after the patch you should really think again.. obviously, as far as there is solo pvp now to begin with..
The blasterthron needs a boost (and while the dominix is often seen, quite succesfully, with a rack of medium blasters while it has a nice big large hybrid bonus, the megathron really shouldn't) in the proposed nerf, that's for sure.
BS will only be able to fight BS's? :) I doubt it.. but for the blasterthron yeah unles you bring mates to hold em down so you can pound em
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide.. |
Arazel Chainfire
Dissolution Of Eternity Ethikos Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:44:00 -
[118]
Ok, I'm in favor of the web nerf - I want to be able to use a small ship effectively against a larger one without the certanty of being completely annihilated. The problem is not that my blasterthron can't hit cruisers - the problem is that my blasterthron now can't hit battleships.
What i propose instead is this - boost range by a little bit (range of say, 5km with antimatter), and boost their tracking significantly. A megathron should be able to hit another megathron if they are both 60% webbed and both moving. As is, my mega almost can't hit another mega that is moving in close range, and I don't even want to say what happens to my hyperion...
-Arazel
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
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Gods Coldblood
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:02:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Keitaro Baka
Originally by: Gods Coldblood ROFL, just tested afew things in this patch and oh my god.. BS's will be a thing of the past ( in solo pvp terms), BS's will only be able to fight bs's while anything smaller gets to fight everyting and have fun doing it.
I more annoyed because eve videos will become so so so so so boring (at least to me). I'm just trying to work out what else is worth flying in gallente
I'll see your ROFL and raise you a LMAO..
If you really think nobody will use pulse plate abbadons, gank torp ravens, blasterokhs, and neutdomi's after the patch you should really think again.. obviously, as far as there is solo pvp now to begin with..
The blasterthron needs a boost (and while the dominix is often seen, quite succesfully, with a rack of medium blasters while it has a nice big large hybrid bonus, the megathron really shouldn't) in the proposed nerf, that's for sure.
BS will only be able to fight BS's? :) I doubt it.. but for the blasterthron yeah unles you bring mates to hold em down so you can pound em
true i was mainly thinking of the mega when i said this!!!
____________________________ My video Way of the Warrior : Gladiator |
Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.30 19:19:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Kadoes Khan on 30/10/2008 19:21:08 Ugh, did we really need another thread on this, where the other threads not sufficient?
A 30pg thread on the subject does not mean your suggestions or whining is any good. All it means is there is 30pgs of posts on the topic. Many of which are worthless posts with nothing to back up the claims.
As to answer your question I think the better question is what is wrong with blasters? And clarify, do you mean ALL sizes of blasters? I know my blasters on my taranis, enyo and ishkur are still awesome. Blasters on thorax are a less effective against small ships in web range, something that I understand and can live with.
Taking a look at the stats on weapons, I see blasters have comparable tracking(often better tracking) and very good damage(in most cases the best) and people only seem to be saying blasters are broken except for one thread in GD which I know you read since you posted it in(thread). So why is it that not only are more people not complaining about laser and projectiles but have people like Liang who I would consider a knowledgable poster defending them saying they are fine(thread)?
Also just because a Dev said to fit medium blasters on your BS doesn't mean it's a good idea. Devs while they making changes to the game often have less experience with what actually works, hence why things like the test server are around.
-=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
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