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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 17:50:00 -
[1]
Hi Everybody,
could somebody from CCP clarify if it is possible (allowed) to use and embed cache files into EVE applications or API projects?
This would make a lot of things a lot easier...
Greetings Amida Ta
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2008.10.26 22:38:00 -
[2]
heh... bacon anyone? ;P standingtools? hmmm
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Jethro Jechonias
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.27 04:35:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jethro Jechonias on 27/10/2008 04:36:03
Originally by: fuxinos standingtools? hmmm
You mean like this one?
For the OP, it would help in getting you a better answer if you were more specific about which files you are talking about and how you plan to use them. |
Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2008.10.27 18:36:00 -
[4]
I'm talking about the cache files from eve itself. Not about any API caches or things like that. Basically for the current client I'm talking about the contents of the bulkdata folder from eve and I would like to embed (some of) these files into my application as resources.
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Jethro Jechonias
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.27 20:05:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jethro Jechonias on 27/10/2008 20:09:23 How permissible that is depends largely on what your application does.
What information in those files are you trying to get and what do you plan to do with it?
Its like asking if you program is allowed to send key strokes to the Eve client. Sure you could do it. It would likely go undetected. Applications such as the drivers for gaming keyboards do this and it is generally concidered to be acceptable. But if the end goal is to write a functional macro, then no it is not allowed.
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2008.10.27 22:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias Edited by: Jethro Jechonias on 27/10/2008 20:09:23 How permissible that is depends largely on what your application does.
What information in those files are you trying to get and what do you plan to do with it?
Its like asking if you program is allowed to send key strokes to the Eve client. Sure you could do it. It would likely go undetected. Applications such as the drivers for gaming keyboards do this and it is generally concidered to be acceptable. But if the end goal is to write a functional macro, then no it is not allowed.
I do not intend to directly interface with a running game client at all. I just look for permission to embed (and by that I mean ship as a resource together with my application) some of the eve cache files. This will not happen at runtime but at compile time. |
Jethro Jechonias
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.27 22:31:00 -
[7]
Still to vague to tell for sure.
What data are you using in those files? |
Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2008.10.27 22:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias Still to vague to tell for sure.
What data are you using in those files?
Already wrote that. Potentially all data available in the bulkdata directory cachefiles (which is effectively the static data that the eve client uses)...
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Jethro Jechonias
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.28 00:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Amida Ta Already wrote that. Potentially all data available in the bulkdata directory cachefiles (which is effectively the static data that the eve client uses)...
So you are asking for a blank check to do whatever the **** you want with CCP's data?
Ya, right!
If you want to know if you can use it, you going to need to say what you plan to do with it.
Otherwise, I would expect that the answer is no.
Even the data export and api come with conditions on their use.
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2008.10.28 11:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias Edited by: Jethro Jechonias on 28/10/2008 03:04:31
Originally by: Amida Ta Already wrote that. Potentially all data available in the bulkdata directory cachefiles (which is effectively the static data that the eve client uses)...
So you are asking for a blank check to do whatever the **** you want with CCP's data?
Ya, right!
If you want to know if you can use it, you going to need to say what you plan to do with it.
Otherwise, I would expect that the answer is no.
Even the data export and api come with conditions on their use.
Odds are high that you can use the static data in the client within the same guidelines as the dump and api. However, unless you are specific about how you are using it, there is no point asking if you can use it.
I'm using it as replacement for the data export within my API project (EveAI). So within the API project I use the data for exactly the same things as using the data export data now. However it is impossible to tell how people USING EveAI will then use the data that would then be part of my project...
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.28 12:56:00 -
[11]
Amida, ignore that child. He don't know how to speak with lady. As for the OP, I'd have to know the answer too. It would be more accurate data supplied to external apps without need to be redistributed every time it updated. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Femaref
Armageddon Day
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Posted - 2008.11.04 00:52:00 -
[12]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=734561&page=1
according to CCP Lingorm, its totally ok as long as you just read the data.
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 08:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Femaref http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=734561&page=1
according to CCP Lingorm, its totally ok as long as you just read the data.
Thanks for digging that out ;) But as you might have seen I've already posted in the thread back then, so I was aware of it being ok to read it from a game client. My question is whether I'm also allowed to ship the files with my application (which is neccessary because not everybody will have the eve client installed on every machine an eve-tool will be run on). For simplicity I would simply embed the files directly into the app.
Hope somebody from CCP could give me green lights for this!
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CCP Lingorm
C C P
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Amida Ta
Thanks for digging that out ;) But as you might have seen I've already posted in the thread back then, so I was aware of it being ok to read it from a game client. My question is whether I'm also allowed to ship the files with my application (which is neccessary because not everybody will have the eve client installed on every machine an eve-tool will be run on). For simplicity I would simply embed the files directly into the app.
Hope somebody from CCP could give me green lights for this!
Hmmmm .... OK, off the top of my head it would be a NO. The system that writes the cache is CCP propitiatory technology. We are really cautious about allowing the use of the cache system by third parties.
We provide no support for this, we also provide no guarantees that we will not change the format of the Cache Files. We also ship new cache files with each release, and technically we can push a new/replacement cache file to you at login.
So shipping them with your API would not be a good idea.
That being said we have 'allowed' some applications to make limited use of the Cache files from Client where the information is available in the client but not easily exportable (case in point there is an app that extracts the market trend data from the Cache files).
If you wish me to get you a 'final definitive answer' email me "shay at ccpgames.com" and I can get that for you. Or if you want to be more specific about your use of the files I can look at it again (or in email).
CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
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postal dude
Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.04 14:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Amida Ta
Thanks for digging that out ;) But as you might have seen I've already posted in the thread back then[...]
So, you succeeded in decoding the cache files? Great. I stopped after I did not quite get some opcodes... Guess I need to look at them again.
Originally by: CCP Lingorm [...]Or if you want to be more specific about your use of the files I can look at it again (or in email).
Please post about this here, I am also interessted on what is okay-ish to do, and what is not. |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.04 20:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Hmmmm .... OK, off the top of my head it would be a NO. The system that writes the cache is CCP propitiatory technology. We are really cautious about allowing the use of the cache system by third parties.
We provide no support for this, we also provide no guarantees that we will not change the format of the Cache Files. We also ship new cache files with each release, and technically we can push a new/replacement cache file to you at login.
So shipping them with your API would not be a good idea.
But question was not about shipping cache files with 3rd party application. It was about reading existing cache files in need of game data instead of shipping precompiled database. clearly, it refers to some static info, which, being changed not often, still need to be updated for all application users. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
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CCP Lingorm
C C P
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Posted - 2008.11.05 09:45:00 -
[17]
Edited by: CCP Lingorm on 05/11/2008 09:45:25 Actually it was about shipping the cache files. Amida Ta asks about that directly in the post about mine.
CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.06 04:02:00 -
[18]
Missed that specific phrase, my bad. I would still like to see answer on my side of question too, if possible. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Xaroth Brook
Minmatar BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.06 08:27:00 -
[19]
Why not, instead of compiling it along as embedded resource, load it during runtime from either the actual eve client cache (meaning yer data will always be up-to-date), or allow the user to import it..
that way you won't be using ccp's propriatary stuff, you'll just be reading it (which has been OK'ed before), thus avoiding the whole vagueness.
It was like a baby, it landed on my lap and was helpless and totally defenseless. Then I shot it and bragged about it on a killboard.
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 21:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Xaroth Brook Why not, instead of compiling it along as embedded resource, load it during runtime from either the actual eve client cache (meaning yer data will always be up-to-date), or allow the user to import it..
that way you won't be using ccp's propriatary stuff, you'll just be reading it (which has been OK'ed before), thus avoiding the whole vagueness.
Well there are two major problems with that: 1) I develop a class library. And that serves as the base of applications. If I read the data directly from the eve folder I can only do so if Eve is actually installed on that computer. However it is quite probable that Eve will not be installed on the target system. In fact in some cases it's even impossible (e.g. if you develop an application for a PDA which surely doesn't run the eve client) 2) Linghorn already said it: The data may break very easily. In fact every minor Eve update might change that data. If however the data (or some of it) is embedded I always have a way to use (or fallback) if the data cannot be read from Eve because it is no longer compatible.
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 22:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: postal dude
Originally by: Amida Ta
Thanks for digging that out ;) But as you might have seen I've already posted in the thread back then[...]
So, you succeeded in decoding the cache files? Great. I stopped after I did not quite get some opcodes... Guess I need to look at them again.
Well somewhat. I think I can decode all relevant opcodes. However I still have some problems with reading the binary packed row data (probably simple but I just don't see it ;) But the data I want to use most (Type data and System data) don't use this rows anyways, so no problems there.
Originally by: CCP Lingorm [...]Or if you want to be more specific about your use of the files I can look at it again (or in email).
Well I want to use them exactly like I used the database dumps. However I would strongly prefer them because: 1) I don't use a database, so I would have to convert the database dump manually into data files which would be a substantial amount of work. 1b) I would have to redo/run this whenever new database dumps come out 1c) I would have to develop compressed or efficient formats for storing that data 2) The datadumps are somewhat volatile in structure. In fact they changed more often than the cachefiles which means more work. 3) Datadumps are not instantly available when a new Eve-Version comes out. Cachefiles are ;) 4) You could even read the cachefile from a locally installed client without too much work and thus getting current data without having to update the API library.
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sumtool
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.08 22:14:00 -
[22]
In general it takes anywhere from a few days to a week for a new datadump to come out. You can save yourself a lot of hassle by doing this:
* Set up the full data dump on your own machine using SQLite (yeah, it's big). * Figure out the data you want from it, and build a proper table schema for it. * Write some dirty Perl to take data from the full dump and convert it to what you need for your own data. * Ship resulting smaller SQLite database with your app.
I left out the "???" and "profit" bits...
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CCP Lingorm
C C P
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:43:00 -
[23]
Datadumps should be available the day after the deployment of a new Patch, (in fact I am preparing it today).
We are being very carful with the Datadump so we minimise any structure change and only try to add new data not take it away.
CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
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Santa Anna
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 22:24:00 -
[24]
What all is in the data dump?
For example, could I get the price history of a commodity via the data dump (rather than a listing of open orders or a history of order placement)? |
Dragonaire
Caldari Corax.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 22:43:00 -
[25]
There's only static data in data dumps no market data just ways to look up what all the numbers mean really in data dumps. Only place for live data is the cache files or through Eve API for your market data and your corporation's -- Finds camping stations from the inside much easier. Been known to write some PHP code for API from time to time too. |
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