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Kazzzi Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.10.26 22:29:00 - [1] Just honestly curious here. It seems that in order to win in FW, the method of choice for taking systems are t1 warp stabbed/cloaked frigs who run away at the sign of any real opposition. Can somebody please explain this in RP terms? How do the most harmless ships in the game conquer entire systems? This doesn't seem to be an exploit, but it does look like an abuse of game mechanics. Weren't the plexes created to be limiting factors for pvp? Instead I see stabbed t1 frigate pilots running around machine-plexing like madmen. I don't see how this is RP. When I hear a system fell to one side or another it confuses me for I know it fell to a bunch of harmless ships who in reality shouldnt have anywhere near the effect on the mechanics as they do. Can somebody please justify this in RP terms?
Haks'he Lirky Burning Bright Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.26 22:44:00 - [2] It's a game first. RP has never dictated anything.
Shirley Serious Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.10.26 22:47:00 - [3] as I understand things, your t1 stab/cloak frigates are only good at lightly contesting or securing systems. To take a system, requires quite a lot more plexes to be taken, over a period of time (days?), until the system becomes vulnerable, in which case the system control bunker has to be shot at, which is not a task that t1 frigates can do, they don't have enough dps to take down the bunker in a reasonable amount of time. So, in RP terms, your light frigates are just nuisance raiders, making a lot of noise and disruption, but ultimately achieving very little.
Kendal Covington	Posted - 2008.10.26 22:49:00 - [4] I agree. The status quo does not really justify itself storywise...
Haks'he Lirky Burning Bright Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.26 22:53:00 - [5] Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 26/10/2008 22:53:28 Originally by: Kendal Covington I agree. The status quo does not really justify itself storywise... ahh come one, it's the first iteration of a feature in a computer game, how could it possible justify itself storywise? Sometimes you RP'ers can be so full of your selves.
Kazzzi Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.10.26 22:59:00 - [6] Question is really just for the RPers man, if you dont like RP, please disregard this thread
Haks'he Lirky Burning Bright Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.26 23:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Kazzzi Question is really just for the RPers man, if you dont like RP, please disregard this thread I like RP, actually I love RP. I do not understand attacking a broken (and yes I believe FW as a feature set is broken) from some made up RP standpoint. Why not use your powers of deduction to actually criticize it from a feature standpoint rather than from an obviously flawed RP standpoint?
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.10.26 23:15:00 - [8] Magic missile.
Kazzzi Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.10.26 23:19:00 - [9] So I shouldn't ask FW RPers to elaborate on their RP? This game has always been played with systems that weren't optimal for RP, But RP prevailed.
Frug Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.10.26 23:22:00 - [10] Originally by: Davina Braben Magic missile. I put on my cape and wizard hat.
Kazzzi Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.10.27 00:15:00 - [11] * Kazzzi blocks all magic missles with his codpiece of power *
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.10.27 00:30:00 - [12] Kazzzi Haks'he Lirky Shirley Serious Kendal Covington Davina Braben Frug Bolded the names of recent additions to the list of people I hate.
Bai ZongTong Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.10.27 00:32:00 - [13] so you are Amarr and you work for 'Minmatar' Ship Construction Services RP much? --- Bai ZongTong, responsible for all the lossmails in my corp.
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.27 00:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Shirley Serious as I understand things, your t1 stab/cloak frigates are only good at lightly contesting or securing systems. To take a system, requires quite a lot more plexes to be taken, over a period of time (days?), until the system becomes vulnerable, in which case the system control bunker has to be shot at, which is not a task that t1 frigates can do, they don't have enough dps to take down the bunker in a reasonable amount of time. So, in RP terms, your light frigates are just nuisance raiders, making a lot of noise and disruption, but ultimately achieving very little. This. In the original system before they gave the defenders a more concrete advantage, this would have been a much greater problem. As is: unless the defenders are completely asleep for about two weeks, the little raiding frigates only really result in the VP scores for both sides skyrocketing. Defenders have to do a great deal less work to decontest the systems than the raiding frigates have to do to push a system into vulnerable. So if a system actually changes hands, it has less to do with raiding frigates, and more to do with a constant presence making sure that every last plex that appears in that system is captured by the offence. That said: There is a serious need for there to be a revised AI for faction warfare. I have seen every last spawn for a major plex target the frigate sitting at 200km away rather than the frigate sitting on the timer. This suggests that the AI is in serious need of a few additions. Something like: If target is "insert range" away from timer and there are any targets closer to the timer then switch targets. More webbing frigates for the major plexes would also be good. Right now once you start getting BC and BS spawns the frigates all but dry up. If a reasonable force balance for new spawns was in place, they would be much harder to speed tank. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2008.10.27 14:59:00 - [15] I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with Gaven. What is happening now is that plexes are being captured by frigates and interceptors that either cloak up or use afterburners to evade damage from the npc's. Countering this by establishing a 'presence' only forces the other side to play the same game, which gets boring quick. While improving the AI is a good idea, more restrictions are needed on the plexes. Frigates should only be able to go into frigate plexes, cruisers only into the cruiser plexes and so on. This would be better than frigates being the first choice for all plexes.
Nuggetcheese	Posted - 2008.10.28 06:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Bai ZongTong so you are Amarr and you work for 'Minmatar' Ship Construction Services RP much? HAHAHA you obviously don't have a clue who Kaz is Ive heard of people mentioning requiring larger ships be present to take capture points of larger plexes. Requiring a BC or BS to be present to cap a major plex might help promote more pvp, however simply improving AI would force people to use bigger ships anyways
wolfbuzz Gallente Event.Horizon	Posted - 2008.10.28 07:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Davina Braben Magic missile. I put on my cape and wizard hat. ROFL....
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.28 07:07:00 - [18] I don't think there's supposed to be much of an RP reason. RP trumps gameplay, as it well should. Originally by: Dirk Magnum Kazzzi Haks'he Lirky Shirley Serious Kendal Covington Davina Braben Frug Bolded the names of recent additions to the list of people I hate. Woot, I'm not there Everyone loves me!
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.28 07:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Kazzzi Question is really just for the RPers man, if you dont like RP, please disregard this thread Then don't post in General Discussion, post in the Intergalactic Summit
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.10.28 08:59:00 - [20] Quick guerilla warfare to take a system, large stationary ships with big guns to keep it. Though, being Amarr you should know that one t1 fitted frigate will take over a system by the power of god!!
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.28 09:50:00 - [21] Originally by: CrayC Originally by: Kazzzi Question is really just for the RPers man, if you dont like RP, please disregard this thread Then don't post in General Discussion, post in the Intergalactic Summit You mean the Intergalactic Summit where it's against the rules to discuss RP? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

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