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MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.30 15:33:00 - [1] Edited by: MyOwnSling on 30/10/2008 15:35:00 Originally by: lecrotta The only threads supporting this nerf normally last a page or so (mostly ppl disagreeing with the OP) go like this: "good job ccp i think this may be a good thing perhaps" Out of curiosity, where are your supporting threads? I tend to not read nano threads so often anymore so I haven't seen much of what you speak. Perhaps you could provide some links? ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.30 15:49:00 - [2] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: lecrotta Because its unpopular with certain aspects of the community, namely carebears and paper tigers. No, if they wanted to (with every right also) nerf the carebear community they would nerf high sec money making. This is not a carebear nerf. This is primarily a nerf to GTC-ebay-nano-warriors that is flooding eve lately. Good riddance imo. The veterans will have no problems whatsoever with the changes. I think I have to agree here. No carebears I know were ever affected by nanos. Generally it has been the 0.0 occupants, and if you are carebearing in 0.0 and you get engaged by pvpers, then you are likely going to die nano or not. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.30 16:03:00 - [3] Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 30/10/2008 15:56:48 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: lecrotta Veterans hate the changes, take your head out of the sand and look at all the threads about how bad these chasnges are ffs are you blind????, You base this on what? I fly with/know alot of veterans that support the nano nerf. What kind of people are you flying around with? You're one that is blind. Name dropping?...how about you post all the threads for the nerf you claim these vets have started instead, cos this thread and this forum is full of those against it. Where does he claim those vets started any threads? All he said is that he knows many that support it. Has nothing to do with posting on forums. I know people who swing both ways who don't ever visit the forums. In all honesty, I don't think the forums are a good indicator of what the majority of the player base think, but because that's all CCP has to go on, that's what they seem to respond to. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.30 16:06:00 - [4] Originally by: lecrotta Its the 0.0 carebears im referring to, those ppl that think a ratting fitted ship is ok to use against a a pure pvp fitted gang in their space. Can you prove it? How do you know that somebody whining on the forums indeed falls into this category? Few will explicitly state it (though there are those whose posts would seem to imply it, sadly). ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.30 16:09:00 - [5] Edited by: MyOwnSling on 30/10/2008 16:09:39 Originally by: lecrotta You were asked to give a detailed summary of roaming gang pvp on sissi How do you simulate this? The FFA areas aren't even close to the same conditions you find in a roaming gang, and on SISI 0.0 areas aren't occupied enough to test anything meaningfully. I would be interested in testing this, but I would like to know how you do it. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.30 16:23:00 - [6] Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: MyOwnSling Originally by: lecrotta You were asked to give a detailed summary of roaming gang pvp on sissi How do you simulate this? The FFA areas aren't even close to the same conditions you find in a roaming gang, and on SISI 0.0 areas aren't occupied enough to test anything meaningfully. I would be interested in testing this, but I would like to know how you do it. Because i did it pal, after the first and second patch along with the dev chappys in local we put together gangs of 20 per side (some times 30 per side although that was max) to test all manner ship ships vs ships along with a variety of fitting styles. We conducted our tests mostly around gates and stations as these areas are the most combat intense in eve and both sides had experienced FC's leading them. As far as results were concerned a gang of BC with a bit of logistic support pretty much owned every other form of gang (apart from RR BS and capitals for obvious reasons). Apart from the logistics cruisers and maybe a bit of (so for un nerfed) ewar, all hacs and cruisers along with all smaller ships were pointless to fly as bonused BC could hit anything while out tanking all but BS and capitals. Ok, so you and a bunch of people had what sounds like a rather well-organized testing environment (obviously a good thing). How often does this happen? Are you able to keep up with the changes occuring daily on SISI? I can't seem to hit SISI at the right times to get any worthwhile testing going. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.30 16:33:00 - [7] Originally by: lecrotta Sori did not mean to ninja edit but this: Nothing has changed since the tests as i was trying out a BC vs ceptor in a gang style test yesterday and even summat as small as a 5kms ceptor orbiting a gang buddy was getting melted. The changes may look good to noobs and inexperienced players but in gang combat if your at 0 to one player orbiting to tackle your in the sweet spot of another and he will melt you just by pressing f1 now.... Yeah, in my minimal testing the ceptor went down in about 15 seconds against a larger target. So what does this mean? You can't tackle anything smaller than a BS post-nano nerf? Are small ships dead? Have you been able to test AF's yet (i.e. could they be a better heavy tackle ship than before)? ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.30 16:54:00 - [8] Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 30/10/2008 16:48:45 I did not personally test AF's as i considered that if the smallest ship in the game orbiting at top speed (thus the hardest to hit) was gonna melt anything else of the same class was gonna be even easier. The main issue was buffer tank, small ships have no buffer so the logistics can work their magic. A BC or larger has good med to long range and enough hp so that all but a huge monster amount of alpha dps cannot break it with a couple of logistics ships pumping out rep. While plating or extending small tacklers is impracticable as it not only slows the ships but increases sig radius along with taking up slots for tackle or the speed mods themselves. 1 v 1 you can maybe get in close quick enough to gunships to survive but in gang combat you cannot get close to every ship all at the same time..... While on TQ speed allows small ships to do exactly that (survive) and stay reasonably survivable unless tackled and that is why it produced skilled pvp, the need to tackle to kill!. I was thinking about the higher resists that an AF has. That could help a bit with the logistics issue, but I don't know how much. Have you tried an inty with the new MWD sig radius bonus? And have you tried anything aside from logistics/BC vs inty gangs? Sorry for asking so many questions but I haven't had enought time to test. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.30 17:10:00 - [9] Edited by: MyOwnSling on 30/10/2008 17:11:15 Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 30/10/2008 17:03:36 Originally by: MyOwnSling Originally by: lecrotta I did not personally test AF's as i considered that if the smallest ship in the game orbiting at top speed (thus the hardest to hit) was gonna melt anything else of the same class was gonna be even easier. The main issue was buffer tank, small ships have no buffer so the logistics can work their magic. A BC or larger has good med to long range and enough hp so that all but a huge monster amount of alpha dps cannot break it with a couple of logistics ships pumping out rep. While plating or extending small tacklers is impracticable as it not only slows the ships but increases sig radius along with taking up slots for tackle or the speed mods themselves. 1 v 1 you can maybe get in close quick enough to gunships to survive but in gang combat you cannot get close to every ship all at the same time..... While on TQ speed allows small ships to do exactly that (survive) and stay reasonably survivable unless tackled and that is why it produced skilled pvp, the need to tackle to kill!. I was thinking about the higher resists that an AF has. That could help a bit with the logistics issue, but I don't know how much. Have you tried an inty with the new MWD sig radius bonus? And have you tried anything aside from logistics/BC vs inty gangs? Sorry for asking so many questions but I haven't had enought time to test. The af resists may make it be hit for a little less but its slower so it will take longer to get into range (plus lower transversal when it is in range orbiting) along with the fact that in a 10 man BC gang you may have good transversal against one or two or even 5 or 6 if they are stupid and bunched up but if 1 BC can melt a ceptor in seconds more can do it in......need i go on?. And yes we tried loads of variations but BC gangs with a bit of logistics and ewar owned all smaller mixed race/ship gangs (hacs were a expensive joke and even at 100 isk on sissi were not worth using over BC) and only lost to BS and capital as i mentioned before. Well then what's the problem? Isn't the solution obvious? All you need to do is hot drop some carriers and you're fine. Right? Or a titan? edit: having a sarcastic moment. I am planning on testing some of this myself soon. I hope it's not as bad as you describe. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...

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