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ethics question, devs can comment, and all eve scammers out there

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Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.11.02 17:49:00 - [31] Over 4500!! What? Secure 3rd party service ■ Veldspar

The Economist Logically Consistent	Posted - 2008.11.02 18:34:00 - [32] Edited by: The Economist on 02/11/2008 18:34:39 Ethics are for the weak; property is theft. CSM: This so called council got elected by 5.7% of the player base! (12678 votes) Who the hell are they going to represent???
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.11.02 18:50:00 - [33] Originally by: Shirley Serious Ingame I am a devious little ***** who would happily kill thousands if it meant I could get a unique and fancy pair of shoes. Out of game, I'm not like that. I'd only kill dozens for the shoes. ...which would promptly be ruined by a series of unfortunate but hilarious accidents. Karma. - Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Nexus Kinnon Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.11.02 18:55:00 - [34] just take the sodding money and stop attention whoring over it
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.11.02 19:42:00 - [35] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 02/11/2008 19:43:39 /pocket psychologist You are caught between the motion of an easy gain and your own conscience about it. Yes, you could take their stuff because all in all it is just a game. On the other hand, it is just a game so is the gain really worth anything? You should do what you will feel best with afterwards. Maybe do the old "would I like it done against my self?" question. I was once "pirating" in low sec. I would hunt people down, shoot them into structure and let them go... Then I would give them advice about taking more care. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.02 19:46:00 - [36] ur director, take, move to station without a corp office so current ceo cant see hangers, drop a few suspect things in one other persons hanger, then suggest checking hangers, get that bloke kicked for being a dirty scammer then repeat once they have re built up there assets :)
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.11.02 20:40:00 - [37] Originally by: Karad Forsky Be different and don't scam for once. Telling those corp members who you are and them realizing that you did a decent thing will make you all warm and fuzzy inside. Who knows you might even like the corp. Just because CCP allows scamming and even indirectly encourages it by not providing better corp management security doesn't mean that you should steal everything that's not nailed down. uhhhh, yes it does Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Haks'he Lirky Burning Bright Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.02 20:42:00 - [38] Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 02/11/2008 20:42:41 as far as I know all legally purchased characters need to be in NPC corps at the time of purchase. Edit: so yes, this is not a normal grief, this is not allowed by character transfer rules.
Aesheera Amarr Malum Crusis IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.02 20:45:00 - [39] Originally by: Haks'he Lirky Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 02/11/2008 20:42:41 as far as I know all legally purchased characters need to be in NPC corps at the time of purchase. Edit: so yes, this is not a normal grief, this is not allowed by character transfer rules. Read with care. He has been invited to return to the corp. -- It's Great Being Amarr, Isn't It?!?! We are recruiting pirates! Clicky!
Haks'he Lirky Burning Bright Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.02 20:46:00 - [40] Originally by: Aesheera Originally by: Haks'he Lirky Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 02/11/2008 20:42:41 as far as I know all legally purchased characters need to be in NPC corps at the time of purchase. Edit: so yes, this is not a normal grief, this is not allowed by character transfer rules. Read with care. He has been invited to return to the corp. Hmm missed that. Fair game then I guess.
Tammarr	Posted - 2008.11.02 20:47:00 - [41] With char transfers... they not knowing. You are impersonating someone else which I belive is wrong no? Dont steal it. tell them they fubared or do one of the funnier things like swapping the isk around and moving all assets to the ceo's hangar =)
Henry Teach Minmatar Abh Empire Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.11.02 21:22:00 - [42] STEAL IT steal it all Originally by: Khraunus I reject your face.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.11.02 22:42:00 - [43] Ethics are a shackle. Cast them off, and behold the freedom of wanton lawlessness. Take the money. You'll be glad you did.
Threv Echandari Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2008.11.03 03:27:00 - [44] Go ahead, steal it, rob them blind. Its a game and you are merely wearing a mask and playing a role. They should have checked you out more thoroughly before before they gave you roles. But.....lets put ethics aside for the moment and talk practicalities. If you do steal it your character will be a marked man. They may post your name in Crime and Punishment as a corp thief. They may recover financially and hunt you down. With you in their buddy list they will know whenever you log in, their locator agent will have your name on speed dial so they will always know your whereabouts, basically restricting you to high sec and an NPC corp. If they have some gonads and PvP skills they may even Wardec your new corp (or hire Mercs to do it) IF you can can into one, just to pod you repeatedly and make your game a miserable hell. If you try to join another corp and these guys are still "upset" they will keep tabs on you and inform your new corp what a scumbag they think you are. Now your "new" corp might laugh it off and say "Good Job! serves the n00bs right." but dont expect to get roles anytime soon. You can go and make your own corp and try to recruit but you can bet these guys will whisper in the ear of your new members and tell them not to trust you or better yet they will get an alt join your corp and get some payback. This being Eve and a Single shard world your e-reputation is all you have really and if you pull off a scam it will follow you around. What goes around comes around. So if you like the Char and don't feel like grinding one up or buying another with skills you want...then tread with caution. The funny thing is, all these guys telling you to go and rip them off know this full well and would delight in any tears you may shed should you come back to the forums and tell them your woes (should they befall you). Despite peoples recent moaning aboutthe pu$$yfication of Eve, it is is a harsh and cruel place indeed, and there's no Karma exemption here. Of course you can always resell the Char to some sucker or Pretend that YOU just boughtthe Char and profess your ignorance about his "Ebil" past. But really, how many masks do you want to wear? How far down that path do want to go? As always only you can answer that. Good luck, ---------------------------------------- Happiness is a Wet Pod
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.03 03:48:00 - [45] This is a very touchy topic for many people and in my opinion, a very personal decision to make. I can see some solid advice in this thread already. I would be inclined to say grab whatever you can - provided you weigh very heavily your options and the consequences of your actions will bring, first. * Indeed, certain people may be considered famous/notorious inside and outside of EVE Online for the heists they've pulled off: Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Ethics are a shackle. Cast them off, and behold the freedom of wanton lawlessness. Take the money. You'll be glad you did. * Provided, of course, you're not someone in Southern Cross Alliance.
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.03 04:04:00 - [46] CCP could consider it invalid so if you do decide to go ahead with it make sure you first petition to CCP to ensure it is ok. If the character sale was done on these forums then the CEO (or person accepting the app) should have probably double checked before letting you back in, however it's quite easy to miss these things if you see a good friend come back into the game.
Falcon Troy Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.11.03 05:11:00 - [47] Edited by: Falcon Troy on 03/11/2008 05:12:37 1. Steal everything. 2. Sell character. 3. Buy new character. 4. ???? 5. Profit. Optional 6. Rinse and repeat steps 2-3 as necessary. _____________ Hai.
Jukhta Mein Domini Umbrus R.U.R.	Posted - 2008.11.03 05:43:00 - [48] Despite being a moral relativist myself (meaning to say I believe morals don't exist as a true ideal - they only exist because of human conventions), I somehow find such an act so unappealing I wouldn't do it personally. Maybe it's because I value human relationships more than anything else, or maybe it's something to do with your own perspective with yourself, which would be tainted with guilt after doing such an act. Regardless, the power is now in your hands.
Yelan Zhou Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.03 05:54:00 - [49] Theft is a serious crime.You might burn in hell for doing this.Personaly i wouldnt risk that for some virtual stuff. War. War never changes.
EspionageX Perkone	Posted - 2008.11.03 07:44:00 - [50] Wtf, this requires some thought? JUST DOOOO IT! Sure, like other people said, ain't worth much cashing in on 4Bil but free iskies none-the-less. Its not like you REALLY know these people anyways... Or you got to know them now and are feeling sympathetic?
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.11.03 09:18:00 - [51] For a laugh, you could opt not to steal the ISK. Instead, just use it to buy like 200,000 shuttles and stuff them in your corp.
John McDuff Caldari Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:09:00 - [52] Edited by: John McDuff on 03/11/2008 14:09:50 Some counterweight to all talk of go ahead, 'it would be the corp's own fault', 'it's not illegal, so do it', etc, etc. If I understand this correctly the corporation has not been informed a well-known ex-member's char has been sold. They accept this character in the corp again on the basis of past trust, you somehow managed to keep them thinking the char is still the same guy. One can think the original owner screwed that corporation by not telling, not your responsibility, you'll just get rich, easy. But ethically - these ppl have no clue, and no reason to have a clue. All those suggesting the corp should check their members better: if someone you have worked with for a long time looks to rejoin your group, plus his behaviour is not far enough off to alert you - do you run a search in the character bazaar? I don't expect so, it would probably not even come to mind. Other things to consider: Repercussions for your gaming experience, as mentioned before, can be offputting to say the least if the victims of your (or maybe rather the original owner's) scam hold a grudge. Also, while the impersonation clause of the EULA does not cover this, it is pretty damn close isn't it? As nobody is the wiser, you ARE impersonating an out of game person. In the end it's all up to you, but bear in mind that since you are impersonating an actual person, the effect of your scam will be quite personal (no pun). --- "Everyone speaks of my drinking, but never of my thirst" Everyone can now start bowing down to me in an orderly fashion...
RedWyvern Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:35:00 - [53] Originally by: John McDuff In the end it's all up to you, but bear in mind that since you are impersonating an actual person, the effect of your scam will be quite personal (no pun). This, really. By the sounds of it, you'll get away with the theft quite easily. You've nothing to be proud of seeing as your 'scam' was simply to be innocuous so as not to arouse suspicion, but by posting this thread alone I'm going to guess you're not entirely comfortable with the idea yourself. If you pull the heist and keep the character you used for it, be prepared to either spend the rest of your time in an npc corp in highsec, or whittle away your cash buying protection. -------------------------------------------------- Loyalty, Integrity, Honour.
Vasili vonHolst Minmatar Gargamel's Lair	Posted - 2008.11.03 15:05:00 - [54] Op fails at scamming, or at best has the heart of a weak scammer =[ Any corp stupid enough to allow DIR roles on a member who has been gone for so long without verifying who they are (Vent/TS) deserves it. Take it, then jump on their ts/vent and hit hit record. Then return with the fruit of your labor to the forums (assuming mitnal will let you link it) --->Movie: + Trillion damage to CareBear community
Illwill Bill Minmatar Genos Occidere Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.11.03 15:29:00 - [55] Yes, I want to see the results of this scam! Vent recordings on youtube, please!
Marchocias Silent Ninja's Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:55:00 - [56] Originally by: Qordel For a laugh, you could opt not to steal the ISK. Instead, just use it to buy like 200,000 shuttles and stuff them in your corp. this ---- Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacoughcoughaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr!!
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:11:00 - [57] I'm a bit dubious about scamming them tbh. It would be different if you worked your way up the corp ladder by your own normal means and then ran off with it. Instead of them not realising you're not the original owner of the account.
Aphoticus	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:28:00 - [58] Edited by: Aphoticus on 03/11/2008 18:29:43 I think you could put a role-play bent on this. Say you infiltarated a high-end clone. You are a security consultant. You have successfully infiltrated the corp. Take 10% consultation fee, then explain to them who you are, what you are doing there, and how they can prevent this in the future. Then politely, and graciously bow down and walk away from the corp. Win, win siutuation.
Squibbly Dooo Libera Mentem Tuam Libera Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.03 20:39:00 - [59] Edited by: Squibbly Dooo on 03/11/2008 20:45:55 I have never agreed with scamming in any shape or form because basically what you are doing is ruining other peoples games. I also have never agreed with the assumption that scamming is valid within eve as there is no actual game mechanic that is designed to allow scams rather there there is a lack of game mechanic to try to prevent them. Saying that however most scams work on people who were too stupid to check contracts etc and a small part of me feels that they deserve the wake up call, if nothing else it may make them look twice in the future. These players in this corp that you are planning or at least considering scamming however are not at fault. They have no reason to think that you are not the same person as thier old corp member, they made no stupid mistake that they could have avoided by just checking a contract. Preying on these players would be about as low as you could get for a scammer and I hope that you reconsider though I doubt you will. Scammers have little or no concience as people so it's unlikely that anything I say will make a difference.

CCP Fallout	Posted - 2008.11.04 12:26:00 - [60] Hey there, This is not, as we'd say, kosher in New York City, but thank you for pointing out this loophole. Closing the thread per the rules of the board. Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online


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