Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Wardeneo
DEADLY RENEGADE ELITE ASSASSIN MERC SQUAD Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.11.02 22:34:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Wardeneo on 02/11/2008 22:34:05 any ideas ?
wardeneo
The best tactic to win a fight in eve is DPS!!! and if u cant do this or fail trying u need more DPS :) |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.02 22:55:00 -
[2]
They will finally be in line with turrets?
Example: Cruise missiles won't wtfpwn anything going slower then 3000 m/s unless it is too small, JUST LIKE TURRETS.
|
Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.02 23:12:00 -
[3]
turrets can't hit something moving at 3Km/s?
|
NoNah
|
Posted - 2008.11.02 23:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Malcanis turrets can't hit something moving at 3Km/s?
Large, longrange turrets tend to have issues doing so. Yes. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 780281
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.02 23:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Megan Maynard They will finally be in line with turrets?
Example: Cruise missiles won't wtfpwn anything going slower then 3000 m/s unless it is too small, JUST LIKE TURRETS.
Fit an afterburner on a battleship and it can passivetank a cruiseraven you mean?
Cause thats where cruise is going , torps however will still work vs webbed & painted targets.
|
NoNah
|
Posted - 2008.11.02 23:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hyveres
Originally by: Megan Maynard They will finally be in line with turrets?
Example: Cruise missiles won't wtfpwn anything going slower then 3000 m/s unless it is too small, JUST LIKE TURRETS.
Fit an afterburner on a battleship and it can passivetank a cruiseraven you mean?
Cause thats where cruise is going , torps however will still work vs webbed & painted targets.
So you're saying torps will have a higher explosion velocity and lower radius than cruise? (Coupled with faster flight) Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 394369
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.02 23:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Hyveres
Originally by: Megan Maynard They will finally be in line with turrets?
Example: Cruise missiles won't wtfpwn anything going slower then 3000 m/s unless it is too small, JUST LIKE TURRETS.
Fit an afterburner on a battleship and it can passivetank a cruiseraven you mean?
Cause thats where cruise is going , torps however will still work vs webbed & painted targets.
So you're saying torps will have a higher explosion velocity and lower radius than cruise? (Coupled with faster flight)
No they are changing the mechanics of how explotion raidus , and sig works.
The net effect is that for missiles to do full damage to an equally sized target it needs to be dual webbed , and dual painted if it runs an afterburner or MWD. Alternativly sitting still.
Since cruise is more of a long range weapon having a target move "inside" web range is a tad pointlessish. While for a torpraven webrange is kinda natural.
|
NoNah
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 00:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hyveres
So you're saying torps will have a higher explosion velocity and lower radius than cruise? (Coupled with faster flight)
No they are changing the mechanics of how explotion raidus , and sig works.
The net effect is that for missiles to do full damage to an equally sized target it needs to be dual webbed , and dual painted if it runs an afterburner or MWD. Alternativly sitting still.
Since cruise is more of a long range weapon having a target move "inside" web range is a tad pointlessish. While for a torpraven webrange is kinda natural.
Heh, I honestly can't see how you can state that it's natural for a torp raven to dual web and dual paint a target. Under any circumstances, other than possibly in larger gangs(where I have no idea why you have a torp raven in the first place) and where the ew would be done by other more specialized ships anyway. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 570434
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 00:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hyveres
The net effect is that for missiles to do full damage to an equally sized target it needs to be dual webbed , and dual painted if it runs an afterburner or MWD. Alternativly sitting still.
None of this is actually true. I'm looking forward to the missile boost.
|
achoura
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 02:01:00 -
[10]
Actually it is, what happens (more or less) is if the ship is faster than the explosion velocity sig takes over or vis versa. Shoot heavies at a vaga it negates most of the damage, fit an ab and that 900m/s vaga can now shrug off the damage of a cruise raven or better yet are carriers. A carrier doing 65 m/s negates 90% of citadel torps damage (poor phoenix ).
Bottom line both are now relative, both are in testing and not final. ***The EVE servers and their patches*** |
|
Darth Legatron
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 02:04:00 -
[11]
I hope they nerf missiles somewhat, since Caldari and their uber versatile missiles are a bit overpowered.
Just my opinion
|
Tac Ginaz
Coalition of Nations
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 03:11:00 -
[12]
mmm... ok then lets make the turrets also be 'realistic' in the sense that projectiles take time to REACH the target so that if the target changes direction.. too bad you missed.
Lasers would lose power at distance due to attenuation.
Blasters would receive double the resists from a ship..as they are particle weapons that means that any hit has to go through EM and Kinetic resists.
Railguns, due to them being SMALL slugs accelerated to such speeds, their damage should be kinetic only.. and as the slug, literally, flies through the ship, the damage should be split into 33.3% applied to shield, 33.% applied to armor 33.3% applied to hull ..each time going through each one's resists.
Only then can you complain about missiles being overpowered. Because.. you know.. they have to FLY to a target ..giving it all the damn time in the world to warp out.
|
BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 03:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Megan Maynard They will finally be in line with turrets?
Example: Cruise missiles won't wtfpwn anything going slower then 3000 m/s unless it is too small, JUST LIKE TURRETS.
finnaly in-line? since when were cruise overpowered? Must have missed the whine thread EVE history
Missiles post-nerf |
Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 03:53:00 -
[14]
When, if, and how the speed nurf goes through (since thats still in the works) will affect missles. The net effect is that if eve gets slower, then missles have to do less damage - otherwise they become too powerful. They are too powerful on SISI right now - missles will get nurfed, blasters will get buffed. -----------
|
Darth Legatron
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 04:04:00 -
[15]
whoops i guess i forgot to add "please flame me" to the end of my post.
Generally it takes longer to warp out than for a missile to hit you.
Also, missiles get to pick any damage type while hybrid turrets get only kinetic and thermal. Missiles get no tracking penalty, no optimal range restrictions. Maybe make it so missiles can perhaps miss every once in a while, or so not all the damage hits with each shot. I wouldn't mind them boosting the damage for the slow ROF if they made missiles more like the other weapon types.
I would be happy with missiles being able to get "light hits" and higher damage. that way if you get lucky, yeah they deal a ton of damage, but most of the time it deals moderate damage, like other weapons. And thats still giving them no optimal or anything...
|
Taco Raptorian
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 07:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tac Ginaz mmm... ok then lets make the turrets also be 'realistic' in the sense that projectiles take time to REACH the target so that if the target changes direction.. too bad you missed.
Lasers would lose power at distance due to attenuation.
Blasters would receive double the resists from a ship..as they are particle weapons that means that any hit has to go through EM and Kinetic resists.
Railguns, due to them being SMALL slugs accelerated to such speeds, their damage should be kinetic only.. and as the slug, literally, flies through the ship, the damage should be split into 33.3% applied to shield, 33.% applied to armor 33.3% applied to hull ..each time going through each one's resists.
Only then can you complain about missiles being overpowered. Because.. you know.. they have to FLY to a target ..giving it all the damn time in the world to warp out.
Aww did you fill all your mids with tank for your solowtfpwnmobile!? Poor guy!
You know that turret ships need a disruptor/scrambler as well as everyone else to kill stuff right? Or let's increase the range on them to 150km so no one can escape, fine by me!
____________________________ A smile reflected in endless space. |
Shereza
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 07:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tac Ginaz mmm... ok then lets make the turrets also be 'realistic' in the sense that projectiles take time to REACH the target so that if the target changes direction.. too bad you missed.
Lasers would lose power at distance due to attenuation.
Blasters would receive double the resists from a ship..as they are particle weapons that means that any hit has to go through EM and Kinetic resists.
Railguns, due to them being SMALL slugs accelerated to such speeds, their damage should be kinetic only.. and as the slug, literally, flies through the ship, the damage should be split into 33.3% applied to shield, 33.% applied to armor 33.3% applied to hull ..each time going through each one's resists.
Only then can you complain about missiles being overpowered. Because.. you know.. they have to FLY to a target ..giving it all the damn time in the world to warp out.
Right, except that lasers also go through, if not outright use, particles as is evidenced by the fluorscing of the beams and if they go through particles so does every other weapon in the game. This should cause degradation of accuracy of many weapon types for various reasons.
Furthermore, railguns and blasters should do explosive, kinetic, and thermal damage. Kinetic for the raw energy of the projectiles, thermal for friction burn and energy converted to heat and explosive because of all the nice seconary explosions they'll cause as well as what happens when you super-heat large pieces of metal and other materials.
Lasers, once shields are down, should also do explosive damage due flash-heating areas of the ship.
Any nuclear ammo for projectile weapons should also have a thermal bloom just like real life nuclear weapons have and should not be just explosive/kinetic. For that matter it should also have a nice EMP pulse that does EM damage, temporarily disrupts locks or degrades electronics systems, or both.
Heck, for that matter if torpedoes, rockets, and heavy assault missiles don't get bonuses from the guided weapon precision skill then they shouldn't be guided weapons at all. THey should just fly in a straight line until they hit something or the game deletes them. Of course, this should be balanced by increasing their damage since you'll actually have to aim your launcher hardpoints, wherever they really are, at your target and hope that your "dumbfire" weapons hit them before they move out of range.
Actually, that's not too bad of an idea. Just think, you could be 600km away from someone's POS and just spam in thousands of torpedoes from all over the place and the first thing they'll notice are all the pretty Christmas lights showing up on their POS' shield.
Yeah, realism would be awesome!
Seriously though, realism should be checked at the door, right along with logic. I've been playing ORPGs of various types for over a decade now and very very rarely do common sense, logic, or realism factor into design decisions. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Ibeia
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 11:27:00 -
[18]
""Seriously though, realism should be checked at the door, right along with logic. I've been playing ORPGs of various types for over a decade now and very very rarely do common sense, logic, or realism factor into design decisions.""
amen
|
Cpt Obviously
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 12:18:00 -
[19]
Weapons kill people ok? That's realism for you!
------------------------------ Always stating the obviously
|
Dr Sheepbringer
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 12:29:00 -
[20]
Speed will help you as it should, but if you slow down...you go pop. Pretty simple.
|
|
mal1coy
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 13:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Atius Tirawa When, if, and how the speed nurf goes through (since thats still in the works) will affect missles. The net effect is that if eve gets slower, then missles have to do less damage - otherwise they become too powerful. They are too powerful on SISI right now - missles will get nurfed, blasters will get buffed.
if the overall speed goes down, you dont compensate with nerfing dps but rather exploding speed.
misslie dps balance is based on: overall ship HP and turret dps, not how fast some ships fly.
|
Dikanal
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 15:13:00 -
[22]
If ships still cant hit each other and blaster boats cant actually catch anything and missiles still wont hit fast ships whats the whole point in the speed nerf?
Its not like there was much a problem anyway only a few stupid uber expensive setups like 12km/sec BS and 21km/sec intys.
|
Darth Legatron
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 21:42:00 -
[23]
lol wut 12km/s bs?
anyways, i would just like missiles to get some similar penalties that turrets get. Also, hybrids should be able to choose damage types with different ammo
|
Isilwen Nightfall
Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 21:56:00 -
[24]
Well i think the explosion velocity is being nerfed a bit too much. Really, a Heavy Missile with about 100-110 explosion velocity is ridicolous. They nerfed it for about 80%.
It's just TOO MUCH. ---
|
RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 22:11:00 -
[25]
Wouldn't it be terrible if frigate class missiles were most effective vs' frigates, heavies best against cruisers and BC's and torps best against BS and BC's.
|
Shereza
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 01:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: RedSplat Wouldn't it be terrible if frigate class missiles were most effective vs' frigates, heavies best against cruisers and BC's and torps best against BS and BC's.
Assuming that I understand missile mechanics correctly and that any ship traveling faster than the explosion velocity of a missile will not take full damage but ships travelling slower, presuming that it takes full damage per explosion radius, will take full damage, and assuming that the "100-110m/s" explosion velocity on Singularity is accurate (I can't log in to verify right now)...
If heavy missiles have an explosion velocity under 165 they won't full damage to any cruiser. The slowest cruisers in the game (there are 2-3) pull 165m/s. The fastest, however, is the fleet scythe at 270m/s. That's a lot of variation to cover. Even if we exclude faction ships the stabber has a base speed of 235 and at cruiser 5 pulls 293.75m/s, faster than even the fleet scythe.
The problem, however, is that the merlin builds, the slowest of the frigates, have a base speed of 230m/s. The fastest frigate is the slasher at 410m/s. Well, the gold magnate is 450m/s and the silver magnate is a whopping 525m/s base speed but those ships are one in a billion if they still exist anymore so really shouldn't be factored in.
If the signature radius and explosion radius can compensate for this so that an explosion velocity of only 110m/s is effective then so be it but somehow I don't see that being the case. The explosion velocity for heavy missiles would need to be at least 190m/s to hit half or more of the cruisers in the game for full damage and should probably be closer to 210-215.
The kicker is that all that applies to ships that aren't using an afterburner or microwarpdrive. The current 750m/s explosion velocity for heavy missiles may be high, especially post nano-nerf, but it should still be higher than 110m/s, especially if they're intended to hit afterburner running cruisers at full force.
On a side note, RedSplat, based on everyone's statements, whines, and gripes torpedoes are only the most effective against battleships if they're webbed and painted right now and post-patch they'll be even less effective while cruise missiles, due to increased potential tactical speed despite lowered maximum speed, will be more effective even if they are less effective right now.
In addition you're mixing missile types. Missile -> Heavy -> Cruise for guided missiles and rocket -> Heavy Assault -> for dumbfire missiles, the primary difference being higher raw DPS for dumbfires but having the guided missile precision (boost to explosion radius or reduction in target's sig. radius in the damage calc.) applicable to guided missiles.
Keeping the missile classes clear in a discussion like this is fairly important. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 05:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Darth Legatron whoops i guess i forgot to add "please flame me" to the end of my post.
Generally it takes longer to warp out than for a missile to hit you.
Also, missiles get to pick any damage type while hybrid turrets get only kinetic and thermal. Missiles get no tracking penalty, no optimal range restrictions. Maybe make it so missiles can perhaps miss every once in a while, or so not all the damage hits with each shot. I wouldn't mind them boosting the damage for the slow ROF if they made missiles more like the other weapon types.
I would be happy with missiles being able to get "light hits" and higher damage. that way if you get lucky, yeah they deal a ton of damage, but most of the time it deals moderate damage, like other weapons. And thats still giving them no optimal or anything...
I disagree with this post. Remember that most missile boats get bonus's for kinetic, and hence shoot kinetic.
They dont have tracking but they do have damage scaling via sig radius, which means that they are effectively the same as turrets in this regard.
While they have no optimal range restrictions, they take time to hit their targets which means a significant lack of dps in the first 10 seconds of a fight compared to other weapons.
CCP will not make missiles like other weapon type because the value diversity, and stay away from adjustments that make eve more homogenous. And most of the time missiles will not hit for full damage, due to sig radius, they will simply hit for the same damage every time after sig radius, speed etc is taken into account. As missiles dont get wrecking shots and dont miss, it gives about the same net output as turrets.
Plz learn more about missiles before flaming them next time, k thx bai EVE history
Missiles post-nerf |
BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 05:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Isilwen Nightfall Well i think the explosion velocity is being nerfed a bit too much. Really, a Heavy Missile with about 100-110 explosion velocity is ridicolous. They nerfed it for about 80%.
It's just TOO MUCH.
why do you think im flying railboats now x) EVE history
Missiles post-nerf |
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 08:29:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 04/11/2008 08:30:49
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: Isilwen Nightfall Well i think the explosion velocity is being nerfed a bit too much. Really, a Heavy Missile with about 100-110 explosion velocity is ridicolous. They nerfed it for about 80%.
It's just TOO MUCH.
why do you think im flying railboats now x)
Yeah , it will be pretty pointless to fly missile ships , even an unbonused gun ship will do anything better. This missile nerf is so stupid i cant find a word which describe it how much.
Well it had to be nerfed , everyone skilled and used missiles only in pvp .. oh wait that was with turrets , whatever.
|
Jim Sharpe
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 01:38:00 -
[30]
Missiles are great for new players. No tracking/optimal range issues. Missiles are easy to hit NPCs and great for missions. Nerf missiles and you nerf new players... not exactly great for Eve when Eve needs a constant supply of new players to stay alive. Doesn't make much sense to me.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |