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Skywalker Minmatar Darkness and Chaos	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:23:00 - [1] I have been Outlaw for most of my 5y in this game. (Now i am a lawful citizen and is getting my new corp on it's feets). Here are a few things i knew about earlier but i really didn't reflect much about as an outlaw. High sec: -It is damn easy to make money running lvl4 missions in high sec with little risk. Low sec: -The high sec missions explains alot about lack of juicy targets in low sec, FW didn't really improve much. 0.0 -Making money in 0.0 ain't more profitable then running high sec missions (normal pilot without moon pos's) This imbalance has probably been pointed out many times on forums, and i am not surely the first, i wonder if anything will be done about this in the future ? Where did the risk vs reward system go ?
CALUGARU Repo Industries Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:24:00 - [2] first. ______________ The new Orca: Originally by: CCP Navigator ooopss
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:34:00 - [3] The summary of the conclusions of varius previous threads on this topic: (1) yes, you're more or less correct (2) that's the way it's going to stay, because all the hi-sec ISK farmers and carebears will cancel their accounts if their supply of risk-free ISK is cut off. (3) And CCP know that the PvPers have nowhere else to go.
Jackie Fisher Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:40:00 - [4] Edited by: Jackie Fisher on 03/11/2008 14:41:44 Originally by: Skywalker Where did the risk vs reward system go ? Don't you mean risk + effort + skill + skills + investment + luck vs reward?
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:43:00 - [5] Edited by: Le Skunk on 03/11/2008 14:45:54 Originally by: Malcanis (3) And CCP know that the PvPers have nowhere else to go. I wish there was. Id be off like a shot. I admit I would feel guilty leaving the forums without a counter to CCP propaganda, so I mightjust maintain an account with isk to continue shining the beacon of truth, on the filthy hairy clog, the evil forces currently in ascendancy at CCP HQ SKUNK Originally by: CCP Navigator People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:57:00 - [6] Quote: Low sec: -The high sec missions explains alot about lack of juicy targets in low sec, FW didn't really improve much. And another wirate complaining about lack of easy targets... Now just imagine lvl 4 missions were removed from high sec. And just imagine it would go exactly like you want and they all run to low sec. Then they get killed so often in your gatecamps that they dont have isk and wont be juicy targets. Like said in another topic, the only way you get more people in low sec is by decreasing the ammount of gatecamps.
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Veto.	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Jackie Fisher Edited by: Jackie Fisher on 03/11/2008 14:41:44 Originally by: Skywalker Where did the risk vs reward system go ? Don't you mean risk + effort + skill + skills + investment + luck vs reward? In a lvl4 Risk: Non existant Effort: Minimal Skill: Hardly needed, a monkey could be trained to solo lvl4s Skills: At 15 million SP you cruise through them solo Investment: 150 million ISK tops for a fully rigged Dominix ---
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.11.03 15:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Thuul'Khalat In a lvl4 Risk: Non existant Effort: Minimal Skill: Hardly needed, a monkey could be trained to solo lvl4s Skills: At 15 million SP you cruise through them solo Investment: 150 million ISK tops for a fully rigged Dominix I'd kind of dispute the "effort" bit — it actually takes a fair bit of grinding to get access to L4 agents, but that all comes down to what you mean by "effort". On the other hand, the SP and ISK requirements are far lower than what you describe — you sail through them already at <10mil SP in a 80mil battlecruiser (fittings and rigs included).
Jackie Fisher Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2008.11.03 15:05:00 - [9] Originally by: Thuul'Khalat In a lvl4 Risk: Non existant Effort: Minimal Skill: Hardly needed, a monkey could be trained to solo lvl4s Skills: At 15 million SP you cruise through them solo Investment: 150 million ISK tops for a fully rigged Dominix You forgot to mention reward for your figures.
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.03 15:06:00 - [10] Originally by: Le Skunk (same old El Stinky propaganda) I for one would hate to see you go because your forum carebear hate, whinage, tearz, and misery entertain me . But ah well, if one day you do follow up with your constant mantra I suppose us carebears would get both of best worlds: You stop logging in (less lag) and we'd still get your monthly dues. It's win-win for carebears. Originally by: Ki An PS. You're full of vitrol and hate... You're socially inept... You're so completely impotent in game... spewing venom over everyone... ^^ One of my "fans"
Skywalker Minmatar Darkness and Chaos	Posted - 2008.11.03 15:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Furb Killer Quote: Low sec: -The high sec missions explains alot about lack of juicy targets in low sec, FW didn't really improve much. And another wirate complaining about lack of easy targets... A. I am not a pirate anymore so i am not protecting that profession in anyway. But everything has become more obvious to me know with a different kind off view on things. B. Who said low sec mission runners are easy targets, if they where in low sec they would gang up more.
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.11.03 15:44:00 - [12] carebears are better human people than you, and as so get more rewards deal with it, emo kid -- Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Tasty Bit Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2008.11.03 15:51:00 - [13] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Thuul'Khalat In a lvl4 Risk: Non existant Effort: Minimal Skill: Hardly needed, a monkey could be trained to solo lvl4s Skills: At 15 million SP you cruise through them solo Investment: 150 million ISK tops for a fully rigged Dominix I'd kind of dispute the "effort" bit ù it actually takes a fair bit of grinding to get access to L4 agents, but that all comes down to what you mean by "effort". On the other hand, the SP and ISK requirements are far lower than what you describe ù you sail through them already at <10mil SP in a 80mil battlecruiser (fittings and rigs included). Aye, those 2 days it takes to get to L4 agents are a killer. Both of them.
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.11.03 15:52:00 - [14] Originally by: Skywalker Originally by: Furb Killer Quote: Low sec: -The high sec missions explains alot about lack of juicy targets in low sec, FW didn't really improve much. And another wirate complaining about lack of easy targets... A. I am not a pirate anymore so i am not protecting that profession in anyway. But everything has become more obvious to me know with a different kind off view on things. B. Who said low sec mission runners are easy targets, if they where in low sec they would gang up more. Then you'd have multiple easy targets in one place.
Naervic Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.11.03 15:54:00 - [15] I have to admit level 4's are easy money. I have about 12 million SP on this character, and am able to solo the hardest level 4's, sure a few make me warp out when my tank is broken, but at its worst I just warp in, kill a few ships, warp out, and let my armor repairers run. It's easy ISK, what can I say. I'm joining Fleet Warfare though, easy ISK in the end is boring ISK. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:00:00 - [16] you dont need skill, start a new cladari missiong running charater and by the time he can do level 4's he can probably fly a raven and use cruise missiles and put some kind of tank together, give it a month aftrer that he running a sheild tank with that and since cruise missiles do the base damage as stated on the info all you really have to do is pack alot and be in range .... i call that pretty effortless ooh wait i have to press F1-F6 and soon you wont even need to do that just press F1 and link them The EvE LifeÖ Blog bringing you the blogs that really matter working in conjunction with EVE Network NewsÖ
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Furb Killer And another wirate complaining about lack of easy targets... Now just imagine lvl 4 missions were removed from high sec. And just imagine it would go exactly like you want and they all run to low sec. Then they get killed so often in your gatecamps that they dont have isk and wont be juicy targets. Like said in another topic, the only way you get more people in low sec is by decreasing the ammount of gatecamps. I made over 40 jumps through lowsec yesterday (as an outlaw) and didn't see anything more threatening than a shuttle on a gate. No gatecamps of any sort, either pirate or otherwise. Contrary to popular carebear belief, gatecamps are not onmipresent outside a few notable systems such as Rancer. Furthermore, systems that are frequently camped, such as Tama and Amamake, are often patrolled semi-regularly by the Factional Militias because they tend to be Factional Warfare-related. Of course, for this to remain true, you would have to avoid herding to the "best" agents like a bunch of sheeple. You would probably also have to gasp defend yourselves from time to time from the occasional pirate.
Plave Okice Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Furb Killer Like said in another topic, the only way you get more people in low sec is by decreasing the ammount of gatecamps. Have you ever actually been to low sec? It's pretty much empty. The idea that all low sec gates are camped by large gangs ganking anything that jumps through is a fallacy.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:24:00 - [19] Yeah i am often enough in low sec. And yes i know large parts are empty and without gatecamps. But still there are often enough gatecamps. You dont need to go to rancer to find them, gates from stacmon to low sec are also usually camped. And it happens fairly often that i am fly randomly through low sec and i suddenly find 6 battleships sitting on a gate and shooting everything that comes through. But if gatecamps arent a problem anyway, then i guess you also dont mind when we boost sentries alot so gatecamps become much harder.
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:32:00 - [20] Originally by: Furb Killer Yeah i am often enough in low sec. And yes i know large parts are empty and without gatecamps. But still there are often enough gatecamps. You dont need to go to rancer to find them, gates from stacmon to low sec are also usually camped. You know how we always tell you to stay out of mission hubs? This would be another place to apply the "not-a-sheeple" method to Eve.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:41:00 - [21] Thanks for your advice, but i never come in mission hubs, way too crowded. Still you need to enter low sec from somewhere. Many of those entrance points are often camped by wirates. And nice selective quoting, how about the gatecamps in random locations? I will admit that i barely ever see a roaming gang of wirates. Last time i saw one they had several cruisers, a battlecruiser and recons, they were afraid of attacking my thorax in a belt because i might be bait...
ramzahn Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:45:00 - [22] System: Aeschee (0.4) Corporation: Federal Intelligence Office Agents: 1x L3 Q20 3x L4 Q20 1x L5 Q12 Enough for you?
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Furb Killer Thanks for your advice, but i never come in mission hubs, way too crowded. Still you need to enter low sec from somewhere. Many of those entrance points are often camped by wirates. For every entrance point you can name me that is camped on some sort of regular basis, I can name you two that aren't camped very much because most people don't use them. Originally by: Furb Killer And nice selective quoting, how about the gatecamps in random locations? I will admit that i barely ever see a roaming gang of wirates. Last time i saw one they had several cruisers, a battlecruiser and recons, they were afraid of attacking my thorax in a belt because i might be bait... How is it you seem to find so many random gatecamps, and yet when I go looking for them, I can't find any?
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.11.03 17:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Skywalker This imbalance has probably been pointed out many times on forums, and i am not surely the first, i wonder if anything will be done about this in the future ? Where did the risk vs reward system go ? I think it's stuck somewhere up the dead horses ass. What do you think? ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.03 17:27:00 - [25] Edited by: Soporo on 03/11/2008 17:34:12 Posting in a nerf HighSec to create more Lowsec targets thread. Alternately known as a Posting in a nerf someone else to make me happy thread.
MuffinsRevenger EmpiresMod	Posted - 2008.11.03 17:34:00 - [26] Originally by: ramzahn System: Aeschee (0.4) Corporation: Federal Intelligence Office Agents: 1x L3 Q20 3x L4 Q20 1x L5 Q12 Enough for you? ITT: Lack of research from op leads to embarasing truth :D
Nikita Alterana Gallente The Antikythera Mechanism	Posted - 2008.11.03 17:36:00 - [27] I personally think that certain parts of lowsec should have better rewards then 0.0 lowsec is really more dangerous, in null, your alliance controls it and normally a decent sized alliance has the space locked down fairly well, so your the most at risk in lowsec. __________________________________________________
Zeul	Posted - 2008.11.03 17:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Skywalker I have been Outlaw for most of my 5y in this game. (Now i am a lawful citizen and is getting my new corp on it's feets). Here are a few things i knew about earlier but i really didn't reflect much about as an outlaw. High sec: -It is damn easy to make money running lvl4 missions in high sec with little risk. Low sec: -The high sec missions explains alot about lack of juicy targets in low sec, FW didn't really improve much. 0.0 -Making money in 0.0 ain't more profitable then running high sec missions (normal pilot without moon pos's) This imbalance has probably been pointed out many times on forums, and i am not surely the first, i wonder if anything will be done about this in the future ? Where did the risk vs reward system go ? Evere thought about war decs or maybe your targets are to clever for you
Magistrate Tsuris L.O.S.T. Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.03 17:38:00 - [29] Edited by: Magistrate Tsuris on 03/11/2008 17:40:52 Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Furb Killer Yeah i am often enough in low sec. And yes i know large parts are empty and without gatecamps. But still there are often enough gatecamps. You dont need to go to rancer to find them, gates from stacmon to low sec are also usually camped. You know how we always tell you to stay out of mission hubs? This would be another place to apply the "not-a-sheeple" method to Eve. doesn't always apply. if you want to make (say) a 15-jump trip to avoid going through a camp, super, but sometimes there aren't multiple entrances where you want them. buff sentries to make gatecamping harder and you'll get more people into low-sec. make it harder (not impossible, just harder) to scan people out running missions in low-sec and you'll get even MORE people in there. if you don't want to make it harder, make it easier by adding a proximity warning in low-sec whenever anyone is about to warp to your position (if you're in a roid belt or running a mission) so that you at least get a fighting chance (to run, haha) carebears don't understand pirates and pirates don't understand carebears, but having the feeling (justly or not) that you're going to get jumped as soon as you enter the area or that there's no point running missions as someone will scan you down lickety-split and take your PvE-fitted ship on with a PvP loadout makes you just not even want to try it. no amount of rabble-rabble from pirates will change that, so if pirates want targets in low-sec they have to accept that CCP will need to modify mechanics. to get carebears into low-sec you have to reduce the risks, or they won't go. you can flame me all you like for whining or make some statements along the lines of "OMG UR AN IDIOT THIS IS A PVP GAME" but i honestly think that's the truth of it.
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.03 17:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Tasty Bit Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Thuul'Khalat In a lvl4 Risk: Non existant Effort: Minimal Skill: Hardly needed, a monkey could be trained to solo lvl4s Skills: At 15 million SP you cruise through them solo Investment: 150 million ISK tops for a fully rigged Dominix I'd kind of dispute the "effort" bit ù it actually takes a fair bit of grinding to get access to L4 agents, but that all comes down to what you mean by "effort". On the other hand, the SP and ISK requirements are far lower than what you describe ù you sail through them already at <10mil SP in a 80mil battlecruiser (fittings and rigs included). Aye, those 2 days it takes to get to L4 agents are a killer. Both of them. Soooo. Are you implying level 4 missions are not a grind? Then why is it that mean 'ole whiny pirates dont like to mission again if it isn't because of the grind? You cryrats need to get your hipocritical B.S. propaganda straight before spewing your usual POV mantra. Then again, it is entertaining. Originally by: Ki An PS. You're full of vitrol and hate... You're socially inept... You're so completely impotent in game... spewing venom over everyone... ^^ One of my "fans"

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