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ArmyOfMe Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.11.03 17:49:00 - [31] take comfort in the fact that the dev's are looking at this issue and that they know that lvl 4 missions pay to well Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Magistrate Tsuris L.O.S.T. Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.03 17:57:00 - [32] Originally by: ArmyOfMe take comfort in the fact that the dev's are looking at this issue and that they know that lvl 4 missions pay to well i don't think they need to change the payment, i think they need to up the difficulty of them. not add more targets so that they take a long time, but actually make them a challenge in some way. then again, they've said they're doing a massive content overhaul, maybe this'll all get addressed then, as just cutting the payment will cause as many carebear tears as making low-sec less gank-friendly would cause pirate tears.
Mordekai Bloodwake Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:00:00 - [33] Edited by: Mordekai Bloodwake on 03/11/2008 18:01:36 If changes are made where current players that enjoy mission running in highsec are forced to move into lowsec, the (already small) Eve subscriber base will get even smaller, im not sure what part of "Niche GamePlay Is No Longer What Masses Like To Play" part dont these hard-headed "must kill shuttles to feel like a man" get?
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:07:00 - [34] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake im not sure what part of "Niche GamePlay Is No Longer What Masses Like To Play" part dont these hard-headed "must kill shuttles to feel like a man" get? Probably the part where Eve survived as a niche game before the masses showed up.
Mordekai Bloodwake Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:12:00 - [35] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake im not sure what part of "Niche GamePlay Is No Longer What Masses Like To Play" part dont these hard-headed "must kill shuttles to feel like a man" get? Probably the part where Eve survived as a niche game before the masses showed up. ROFLMAO, your funny!
Artemis Rose Varion Galactic Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:25:00 - [36] Its not like mission running is all about the bears getting fat wallets and rolling around in faction mods, some people mission to fund PvP and or have alts that mission to fund PvP. 0.0 ratting, even more-so when you get good chains, is more profitable than lvl 4s and the risk is fairly minimal. A neutral or red comes into system, you zoom off to your safespot and cloak, or your alliance rallies a defense OP and you kill said red/neutral. Removing or nerfing high sec lvl 4 won't help the outlaw population. They won't come into low sec with pimped battleships, unless they come in a mission running alliance and outnumber everybody 40-1 *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Banana Torres Look Ma I did a Test	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:32:00 - [37] Originally by: Skywalker Where did the risk vs reward system go ? Well, I could run some level 4 in a passive tank Drake, I'm not risking much, but I am limited to the missions I run and the one I can do I will be slow. So my rewards are not that great. I can then move up to a t2 raven, I can do all level 4 now. I am risking more, but my rewards are better. Now I am can move onto a t2 Golem. This can really speed through missions but I am risking about half a billion. Which I can, and have, lost due to a badly timed disconnect. Finally I could use a faction fitted CNR or Golem, with it I can get the mythical 25 million an hour, but I am not that brave cause a bad pull, a bit of lag, a bad d/c and I have lost billions. If I choose to do the missions in high sec, my missions and lp rewards are much lower than when i do them in low sec. So risk/reward system still seems intact to me.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:43:00 - [38] CCP Zulupark said that risk/reward was off and that something would be done about them. Win tbh Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake im not sure what part of "Niche GamePlay Is No Longer What Masses Like To Play" part dont these hard-headed "must kill shuttles to feel like a man" get? Probably the part where Eve survived as a niche game before the masses showed up. Do you really think that CCP would go out of it's way to ** off a nice chunk of High Sec population (aka "the masses") just to please a small part of the population in low sec? CCP, no mater what they say about niche game, is in this for the money. Maybe when this game first came it was all about niche game but not now. They do not want to cut their subscriptions, they want to increase their subscriptions. They are not going to force High Sec people to go out to low sec/null sec. That would be stupid. CCP needs to figure out how to make low sec more enticing while not screwing up High Sec at the same time. Me, I like High Sec the way it is. A lot of brain dead, shoot first without looking, I can say anything I please without consequences, mission runners who think High Sec is safe. *********************************************** I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Product Number 3	Posted - 2008.11.03 19:06:00 - [40] Unfortunately the game is leaning more and more to the safe side. I personally think a solution to all of this would be the NPC corp tax (where after a short amount of time ~1 month, a 50% tax is levied on players to encourage them to leave). Maintains its use as noob zone, and penalizes players who know better.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.03 19:21:00 - [41] Only result of that is that you make the riskfree pvp'ers (empire wardeccers) happy.
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.03 19:24:00 - [42] Originally by: Furb Killer Only result of that is that you make the riskfree pvp'ers (empire wardeccers) happy. Yeah, that would be awful if pvPers were thrown a bone after 2 years of more or less continuous nerfs.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.03 19:25:00 - [43] You mean like introducing HICs and other ships/stuff which tank gateguns much easier? Apparently risk/reward doesnt count for pvp'ers. Yes wardeccing miners is pretty much risk free.
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.03 19:32:00 - [44] Originally by: Furb Killer Yes wardeccing miners is pretty much risk free. It's not very rewarding either. Seems fair to me.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.11.03 19:41:00 - [45] Originally by: Banana Torres Originally by: Skywalker Where did the risk vs reward system go ? Well, I could run some level 4 in a passive tank Drake, I'm not risking much, but I am limited to the missions I run and the one I can do I will be slow. So my rewards are not that great. I can then move up to a t2 raven, I can do all level 4 now. I am risking more, but my rewards are better. Now I am can move onto a t2 Golem. This can really speed through missions but I am risking about half a billion. Which I can, and have, lost due to a badly timed disconnect. Finally I could use a faction fitted CNR or Golem, with it I can get the mythical 25 million an hour, but I am not that brave cause a bad pull, a bit of lag, a bad d/c and I have lost billions. If I choose to do the missions in high sec, my missions and lp rewards are much lower than when i do them in low sec. So risk/reward system still seems intact to me. Hello, we are talking about the risk/reward ratio between low security space and high security space. The fact that you suck at running missions is off topic. If you die doing a mission, then you really, really suck as you lack the basic knowledge of how to warp. As far as the OP, because of level 4 kill missions the risk vs reward system has been thrown out of whack. Null security space is the most dangerous and risky to be in but you can equal the amount of isk earned by running level 4s in high security space. Devs and looking into it and it will hopefully be corrected. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.03 19:46:00 - [46] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Furb Killer Only result of that is that you make the riskfree pvp'ers (empire wardeccers) happy. Yeah, that would be awful if pvPers were thrown a bone after 2 years of more or less continuous nerfs. And by throwing PVPers a bone you mean throw them a barrel full of fish to shoot, amirite? Originally by: Ki An PS. You're full of vitrol and hate... You're socially inept... You're so completely impotent in game... spewing venom over everyone... ^^ One of my "fans"
Sephy'Ra Ascendant Strategies Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.03 20:45:00 - [47] Edited by: Sephy''Ra on 03/11/2008 20:45:33 Off topic: It's a 0.2 system. Originally by: ramzahn System: Aeschee (0.4) Corporation: Federal Intelligence Office Agents: 1x L3 Q20 3x L4 Q20 1x L5 Q12 Enough for you? On topic: Talking about ISK vs. reward, especially LP-wise, I think lowsec pretty much fits into the scheme. In highsec you get like 4k LP max for a L4 mission while in 0.1 it's said to be 12k+ (it's what I heard, not sure if skills were involved). So if you are good at your job you can end up with something like 150M ISK/hour, granted you manage to sell whatever you buy from LP the store. Doesn't that sound quite ok for the risk of losing your ship? Lost your faction fitted BS? Oh well, get a new one and go missioning for 2 houres.... Sephy PS: Once again, I have no idea if my values are correct but I have sources which I believe don't have to show-off for me, since they are higher up in the ranks anyways.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.03 20:52:00 - [48] Would help if you would be able to just get isk for your lp, which isnt possible. Now you need to find stuff that gives decent isk payout for your lp, which are mainly implants and buying 20 of the same implants means you crash the market alone... And then, how do you get to 150M isk per hour? Say what you earn in high sec max is 30M ISK per hour (decent chance someone will come who says he earns 75M per hour, but you dont count). From 30 to 150M you need another 120M per hour. You get roughly 8000LP extra per mission, which is roughly 8 million isk, 10 million maybe. That would mean you do 12 lvl 4 missions per hour.
Banana Torres Look Ma I did a Test	Posted - 2008.11.04 00:20:00 - [49] Originally by: Vaal Erit If you die doing a mission, then you really, really suck as you lack the basic knowledge of how to warp. What a stupid and ******ed comment that is. Tell me, Ms. Forum Alt, how do you warp when you have diconnected from the server?
Chelone Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.11.04 01:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Khamal Jolstien I personally think a solution to all of this would be the NPC corp tax (where after a short amount of time ~1 month, a 50% tax is levied on players to encourage them to leave). Ladies and gentlemen, Barack Obama!
Korizan	Posted - 2008.11.04 01:35:00 - [51] Originally by: Thuul'Khalat Originally by: Jackie Fisher Edited by: Jackie Fisher on 03/11/2008 14:41:44 Originally by: Skywalker Where did the risk vs reward system go ? Don't you mean risk + effort + skill + skills + investment + luck vs reward? In a lvl4 Risk: Non existant Effort: Minimal Skill: Hardly needed, a monkey could be trained to solo lvl4s Skills: At 15 million SP you cruise through them solo Investment: 150 million ISK tops for a fully rigged Dominix LOL talk about lamb to the slaughter you picked a drone boat. Drones can be scanned in 20 Seconds even when they are in deadspace. The last thing I would use in low-sec for missions would be a domi. THen again I don't don't mission so what do i care have @ it.
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Veto.	Posted - 2008.11.04 09:57:00 - [52] Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 04/11/2008 01:36:42 Originally by: Thuul'Khalat Originally by: Jackie Fisher Edited by: Jackie Fisher on 03/11/2008 14:41:44 Originally by: Skywalker Where did the risk vs reward system go ? Don't you mean risk + effort + skill + skills + investment + luck vs reward? In a lvl4 Risk: Non existant Effort: Minimal Skill: Hardly needed, a monkey could be trained to solo lvl4s Skills: At 15 million SP you cruise through them solo Investment: 150 million ISK tops for a fully rigged Dominix LOL talk about lamb to the slaughter you picked a drone boat. Drones can be scanned in 20 Seconds even when they are in deadspace. The last thing I would use in low-sec for missions would be a domi. THen again I don't mission, so what do i care, have @ it. Neither do I. And I was talking about high-sec mr smartypants. As in, lvl4 missions in highsec = no risk, no effort, no skill = top rewards. Need me to explain further? ---
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2008.11.04 10:14:00 - [53] Originally by: Skywalker 1) High sec: -It is damn easy to make money running lvl4 missions in high sec with little risk. 2) Low sec: -The high sec missions explains alot about lack of juicy targets in low sec, FW didn't really improve much. 3) 0.0 -Making money in 0.0 ain't more profitable then running high sec missions (normal pilot without moon pos's) 1) True. 2) That's issues with low sec, not high sec missions. You could turn it around and say that low sec is too dangerous and not too profitable. While high sec missions is very little risk for high reward, low sec is very little reward for high risks. Low sec is the 'worst' place to be, for good and for bad. 3) False. I see you havn't lived in a decent 0.0, only been to Syndciate, have you?
Skywalker Minmatar Darkness and Chaos	Posted - 2008.11.04 18:02:00 - [54] Edited by: Skywalker on 04/11/2008 18:03:14 Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Skywalker 1) High sec: -It is damn easy to make money running lvl4 missions in high sec with little risk. 2) Low sec: -The high sec missions explains alot about lack of juicy targets in low sec, FW didn't really improve much. 3) 0.0 -Making money in 0.0 ain't more profitable then running high sec missions (normal pilot without moon pos's) 1) True. 2) That's issues with low sec, not high sec missions. You could turn it around and say that low sec is too dangerous and not too profitable. While high sec missions is very little risk for high reward, low sec is very little reward for high risks. Low sec is the 'worst' place to be, for good and for bad. 3) False. I see you havn't lived in a decent 0.0, only been to Syndciate, have you? Ok, about nr3 there. Sure you can make more isk in 0.0, but not that much more that it's worth mentioning. The main point im trying to make is the risk/reward ration that is out of order. I think 0.0 should be more profitable actually then it is. Also, the mining profession, it is not as common as it used to be to see miners in 0.0. I think this should get improved, mining is more risk then npcing imo. And it makes 0.0 citizens fight more over resources, So boost the roids.

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