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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.03 16:12:00 -
[1]
Well, I was just going though my usual convo/mail chaos. Just about everybody was asking for gallente/caldari packs of components. I though I knew most bpo owners out there but I kept seeing more and more new ppl asking for them.
And the it hit me:
Because of the rarity of the reactors for gallente and caldari, it seems that some bpo holders decide to start copying. And why shouldn't they? It's a no-hassle job that brings some standard isk. I bet they say: "Oh well, when I get some packs I'll start bulding again".
As it seems, the amount of copies going around is self-inflating the problem. Ppl with bpc's add to the markets demand and the reactors get even more rare.
On the other hand a good point is the fact that by copying a bpo you cut the demand in half because of the 2x time it takes.
But as it seems no1 is happening instead of no2. I'm really baffled here and there is no visible escape from this cycle. I'm foreseeing (have a cookie neo  ) a graviton price drive for the fusion thrusts too. 
Well, one can be sure: this is going to be one interesting future.
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.03 16:12:00 -
[2]
Well, I was just going though my usual convo/mail chaos. Just about everybody was asking for gallente/caldari packs of components. I though I knew most bpo owners out there but I kept seeing more and more new ppl asking for them.
And the it hit me:
Because of the rarity of the reactors for gallente and caldari, it seems that some bpo holders decide to start copying. And why shouldn't they? It's a no-hassle job that brings some standard isk. I bet they say: "Oh well, when I get some packs I'll start bulding again".
As it seems, the amount of copies going around is self-inflating the problem. Ppl with bpc's add to the markets demand and the reactors get even more rare.
On the other hand a good point is the fact that by copying a bpo you cut the demand in half because of the 2x time it takes.
But as it seems no1 is happening instead of no2. I'm really baffled here and there is no visible escape from this cycle. I'm foreseeing (have a cookie neo ) a graviton price drive for the fusion thrusts too.
Well, one can be sure: this is going to be one interesting future.
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.07.03 17:16:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Feta Solamnia
Well, I was just going though my usual convo/mail chaos. Just about everybody was asking for gallente/caldari packs of components. I though I knew most bpo owners out there but I kept seeing more and more new ppl asking for them.
And the it hit me:
Because of the rarity of the reactors for gallente and caldari, it seems that some bpo holders decide to start copying. And why shouldn't they? It's a no-hassle job that brings some standard isk. I bet they say: "Oh well, when I get some packs I'll start bulding again".
As it seems, the amount of copies going around is self-inflating the problem. Ppl with bpc's add to the markets demand and the reactors get even more rare.
On the other hand a good point is the fact that by copying a bpo you cut the demand in half because of the 2x time it takes.
But as it seems no1 is happening instead of no2. I'm really baffled here and there is no visible escape from this cycle. I'm foreseeing (have a cookie neo ) a graviton price drive for the fusion thrusts too.
Well, one can be sure: this is going to be one interesting future.
You forgot to mention that we get more and more t2 bpo's put into the system that add to the demand of components. The Covert Op frigs is getting put into circulation probably using even more components to build or a different ratio making other components more rare. Source of supply remaining the same, basicly a big FU to the ones who aquire a tech2 bpo signed "kind regards" by the devs 
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.07.03 17:16:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
Well, I was just going though my usual convo/mail chaos. Just about everybody was asking for gallente/caldari packs of components. I though I knew most bpo owners out there but I kept seeing more and more new ppl asking for them.
And the it hit me:
Because of the rarity of the reactors for gallente and caldari, it seems that some bpo holders decide to start copying. And why shouldn't they? It's a no-hassle job that brings some standard isk. I bet they say: "Oh well, when I get some packs I'll start bulding again".
As it seems, the amount of copies going around is self-inflating the problem. Ppl with bpc's add to the markets demand and the reactors get even more rare.
On the other hand a good point is the fact that by copying a bpo you cut the demand in half because of the 2x time it takes.
But as it seems no1 is happening instead of no2. I'm really baffled here and there is no visible escape from this cycle. I'm foreseeing (have a cookie neo ) a graviton price drive for the fusion thrusts too.
Well, one can be sure: this is going to be one interesting future.
You forgot to mention that we get more and more t2 bpo's put into the system that add to the demand of components. The Covert Op frigs is getting put into circulation probably using even more components to build or a different ratio making other components more rare. Source of supply remaining the same, basicly a big FU to the ones who aquire a tech2 bpo signed "kind regards" by the devs
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.03 18:56:00 -
[5]
On that part I hope that the cover op frigs will need a totally different ratio of items or we're all D-E-A-D.
It also makes sense in a RP point of view. An interceptor needs lots of thrusters and reactors to run fast etc. A cloaking frigate should need more processors and shield emmiters. So If spec ops need 20 reactors, 20 thrusts and 30/40 shield emmitters and processors they'd we'd see a much more interesting market and much more wastage on some components.
Ofcourse I cross my fingers that CCP will not make the inbalance they made with the interceptors. Caldari and gallente selling like crazy and minmatar/amarr staying completely useless (well, the patch fixed that partially). If all spec ops are properly balanced the difference in prices will throw many buyers towards the cheaper amarr/minmatar and therefore fix our problems.
Or... It could totally go crazy and make me start laughing my cute tuchie out
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.03 18:56:00 -
[6]
On that part I hope that the cover op frigs will need a totally different ratio of items or we're all D-E-A-D.
It also makes sense in a RP point of view. An interceptor needs lots of thrusters and reactors to run fast etc. A cloaking frigate should need more processors and shield emmiters. So If spec ops need 20 reactors, 20 thrusts and 30/40 shield emmitters and processors they'd we'd see a much more interesting market and much more wastage on some components.
Ofcourse I cross my fingers that CCP will not make the inbalance they made with the interceptors. Caldari and gallente selling like crazy and minmatar/amarr staying completely useless (well, the patch fixed that partially). If all spec ops are properly balanced the difference in prices will throw many buyers towards the cheaper amarr/minmatar and therefore fix our problems.
Or... It could totally go crazy and make me start laughing my cute tuchie out
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Anderi Bourdieu
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Posted - 2004.07.03 21:09:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Anderi Bourdieu on 03/07/2004 21:11:57
Regardless of which components become 'rare' next, the point is that components in general are getting rare. Mission runners are not getting component rewards.
However, that only affects the amount of components entering the market. The other problem (and the one I think is most difficult) is that there are lots of 'rare' components already in the market, but cannot be accessed because of the ridiculous asking price. 100's of thousands isk, and sometimes even millions for one component? No matter how desperate people get for Interceptors, no one will buy them at that price. The sellers are either sitting on them, or hoping some noob will accidentally buy some at the price. For all we know, these characters could be inactive and they will remain in the market with no access to them.
So, the question becomes how do we get the components already in the market to circulate?
One more point: What happens to the components when the Interceptor is destroyed? Do they enter back into the system?
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Anderi Bourdieu
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Posted - 2004.07.03 21:09:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Anderi Bourdieu on 03/07/2004 21:11:57
Regardless of which components become 'rare' next, the point is that components in general are getting rare. Mission runners are not getting component rewards.
However, that only affects the amount of components entering the market. The other problem (and the one I think is most difficult) is that there are lots of 'rare' components already in the market, but cannot be accessed because of the ridiculous asking price. 100's of thousands isk, and sometimes even millions for one component? No matter how desperate people get for Interceptors, no one will buy them at that price. The sellers are either sitting on them, or hoping some noob will accidentally buy some at the price. For all we know, these characters could be inactive and they will remain in the market with no access to them.
So, the question becomes how do we get the components already in the market to circulate?
One more point: What happens to the components when the Interceptor is destroyed? Do they enter back into the system?
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.07.03 23:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
Or... It could totally go crazy and make me start laughing my cute tuchie out
Only got your word for that, you can be a bald man from Texas for all I know
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.07.03 23:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
Or... It could totally go crazy and make me start laughing my cute tuchie out
Only got your word for that, you can be a bald man from Texas for all I know
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.07.03 23:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 03/07/2004 23:28:57
Originally by: Anderi Bourdieu
Edited by: Anderi Bourdieu on 03/07/2004 21:11:57
Regardless of which components become 'rare' next, the point is that components in general are getting rare. Mission runners are not getting component rewards.
However, that only affects the amount of components entering the market. The other problem (and the one I think is most difficult) is that there are lots of 'rare' components already in the market, but cannot be accessed because of the ridiculous asking price. 100's of thousands isk, and sometimes even millions for one component? No matter how desperate people get for Interceptors, no one will buy them at that price. The sellers are either sitting on them, or hoping some noob will accidentally buy some at the price. For all we know, these characters could be inactive and they will remain in the market with no access to them.
So, the question becomes how do we get the components already in the market to circulate?
One more point: What happens to the components when the Interceptor is destroyed? Do they enter back into the system?
You are right about agent runners doesnt drop as they used to. I even visited agents I never used before to see if it was because of my high standing with the agents I use, and its not. Although in a earlier thread on the patch forum, I got told there was no lack of components by Traveler, and that I should stop waste my time advocate it on the forums and rather do missions. Nice going 
1) They give us tech2 bpo's through a research lottery that is quite so random. or at least appear to be. (I wont complain though, Ive been lucky)
2) Vital components that is required to build tech2 stuff ONLY drop from agents. And it doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand there is something fishy with agents and have been that for a long time. Or maybe CCP just closed the tap and strangled the supply of components?
3) However, the release of tech2 bpo's into the system goes on, increasing the demand of components and our problem grows bigger and bigger.
4) Prices get pressed through the roof. And convinient the insurance on the Interceptors changes, due to a bug or whatnot. You now get what? 300k payback compared to 2+ mill or so like it was. Even at 2+ mill insurance you wouldnt get back more than a third (if you are lucky) of what the interceptor costed you. And god forbid if you lost other tech2 gear fitted on your ship that isnt covered by insurance.
I have a theory about CCP want to remove ISK from the system, and use the tech2 as a cow to milk the rich in EVE. After all its most likely the wealthy players (when it comes to ISK) that can afford tech2, so why not just blow up their piggy bank. Oh look who are the men in white coats coming to take me a away  Yes maybe im paranoid and suffer from conspiracy theories, but it doesnt leave the fact... we got a problem regarding components.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.07.03 23:27:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 03/07/2004 23:28:57
Originally by: Anderi Bourdieu
Edited by: Anderi Bourdieu on 03/07/2004 21:11:57
Regardless of which components become 'rare' next, the point is that components in general are getting rare. Mission runners are not getting component rewards.
However, that only affects the amount of components entering the market. The other problem (and the one I think is most difficult) is that there are lots of 'rare' components already in the market, but cannot be accessed because of the ridiculous asking price. 100's of thousands isk, and sometimes even millions for one component? No matter how desperate people get for Interceptors, no one will buy them at that price. The sellers are either sitting on them, or hoping some noob will accidentally buy some at the price. For all we know, these characters could be inactive and they will remain in the market with no access to them.
So, the question becomes how do we get the components already in the market to circulate?
One more point: What happens to the components when the Interceptor is destroyed? Do they enter back into the system?
You are right about agent runners doesnt drop as they used to. I even visited agents I never used before to see if it was because of my high standing with the agents I use, and its not. Although in a earlier thread on the patch forum, I got told there was no lack of components by Traveler, and that I should stop waste my time advocate it on the forums and rather do missions. Nice going
1) They give us tech2 bpo's through a research lottery that is quite so random. or at least appear to be. (I wont complain though, Ive been lucky)
2) Vital components that is required to build tech2 stuff ONLY drop from agents. And it doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand there is something fishy with agents and have been that for a long time. Or maybe CCP just closed the tap and strangled the supply of components?
3) However, the release of tech2 bpo's into the system goes on, increasing the demand of components and our problem grows bigger and bigger.
4) Prices get pressed through the roof. And convinient the insurance on the Interceptors changes, due to a bug or whatnot. You now get what? 300k payback compared to 2+ mill or so like it was. Even at 2+ mill insurance you wouldnt get back more than a third (if you are lucky) of what the interceptor costed you. And god forbid if you lost other tech2 gear fitted on your ship that isnt covered by insurance.
I have a theory about CCP want to remove ISK from the system, and use the tech2 as a cow to milk the rich in EVE. After all its most likely the wealthy players (when it comes to ISK) that can afford tech2, so why not just blow up their piggy bank. Oh look who are the men in white coats coming to take me a away Yes maybe im paranoid and suffer from conspiracy theories, but it doesnt leave the fact... we got a problem regarding components.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.04 01:37:00 -
[13]
I think only a small percentage of the components ever hits the market.
Just about every corp I know about is hoarding components in case they get a bpo sometime...
/me thinks of the billions worth of components being stashed out there and goes nuts
And there ARE some serious hoarders out there, doing it as an investment. I've talked to ppl having ridiculuous amounts of components all over the place.
As it seems everybody is waiting for the cruisers to hit the market.
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.04 01:37:00 -
[14]
I think only a small percentage of the components ever hits the market.
Just about every corp I know about is hoarding components in case they get a bpo sometime...
/me thinks of the billions worth of components being stashed out there and goes nuts
And there ARE some serious hoarders out there, doing it as an investment. I've talked to ppl having ridiculuous amounts of components all over the place.
As it seems everybody is waiting for the cruisers to hit the market.
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.07.04 06:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
I think only a small percentage of the components ever hits the market.
Just about every corp I know about is hoarding components in case they get a bpo sometime...
/me thinks of the billions worth of components being stashed out there and goes nuts
And there ARE some serious hoarders out there, doing it as an investment. I've talked to ppl having ridiculuous amounts of components all over the place.
As it seems everybody is waiting for the cruisers to hit the market.
Well, I can relate to that, we are hoarding components we doesnt necessary need atm either, in case we will need them some day. However what a corp is able to stockpile over time doesnt even get close to what is needed in the day to day production of tech2 items in EVE.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.07.04 06:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
I think only a small percentage of the components ever hits the market.
Just about every corp I know about is hoarding components in case they get a bpo sometime...
/me thinks of the billions worth of components being stashed out there and goes nuts
And there ARE some serious hoarders out there, doing it as an investment. I've talked to ppl having ridiculuous amounts of components all over the place.
As it seems everybody is waiting for the cruisers to hit the market.
Well, I can relate to that, we are hoarding components we doesnt necessary need atm either, in case we will need them some day. However what a corp is able to stockpile over time doesnt even get close to what is needed in the day to day production of tech2 items in EVE.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.04 11:36:00 -
[17]
Well, just about every agent runner out there belongs to a player corp, and just about every corp hoards components = no components in the market.
I've seen tiny corps that had almost no idea on how/where you get tech2 to hoard them parts.
It's a trend!
It's a plan!
NO!... It's total madness!
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.04 11:36:00 -
[18]
Well, just about every agent runner out there belongs to a player corp, and just about every corp hoards components = no components in the market.
I've seen tiny corps that had almost no idea on how/where you get tech2 to hoard them parts.
It's a trend!
It's a plan!
NO!... It's total madness!
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Rodge
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Posted - 2004.07.05 10:34:00 -
[19]
I suppose in a way, it's people like myself that are part of the problem. I used to do a lot of agent running in Empire. And I have quite a large stock of T2 components in my agent base. I have no T2 BPOs so don't really have any use for them.
But when I looked on the market, all the buy orders are priced really low compared to what the items are worth of you reprocessed them for minerals. So if I ever needed the cash, I would just recycle them and sell the minerals.
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Rodge
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Posted - 2004.07.05 10:34:00 -
[20]
I suppose in a way, it's people like myself that are part of the problem. I used to do a lot of agent running in Empire. And I have quite a large stock of T2 components in my agent base. I have no T2 BPOs so don't really have any use for them.
But when I looked on the market, all the buy orders are priced really low compared to what the items are worth of you reprocessed them for minerals. So if I ever needed the cash, I would just recycle them and sell the minerals.
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Seth Fix
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Posted - 2004.07.05 10:44:00 -
[21]
You are right about player corps hoarding them,it's just nature of things,but I can't say that you are right about agents not giving as much of them as before....
But I know amount you get is based on your standings,since from 3 R.Db-s now I get 11 , from 5 R.A.M-s now I get 14 and from 23 reactors I get 48 
P.S : Don't evemail me about selling them....
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Seth Fix
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Posted - 2004.07.05 10:44:00 -
[22]
You are right about player corps hoarding them,it's just nature of things,but I can't say that you are right about agents not giving as much of them as before....
But I know amount you get is based on your standings,since from 3 R.Db-s now I get 11 , from 5 R.A.M-s now I get 14 and from 23 reactors I get 48
P.S : Don't evemail me about selling them....
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.05 15:15:00 -
[23]
Quote:
P.S : Don't evemail me about selling them....
Damn, you didn't fall for my trap
As for the person(clicked reply too soon and I'm bored to go back and check) saying you don't get isk for the repro value:
It used to be like that, now you have to actually look for items bought for less than the NPC reprocess values, and that's for optimal repro.
Slowly all non-reactor items are starting to find a use outside interceptor usage, so their prices are slowly rising (can anyone say nanomechanical? )
Ruffio u called me a fat bald man???
I'M NOT BALD!
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.05 15:15:00 -
[24]
Quote:
P.S : Don't evemail me about selling them....
Damn, you didn't fall for my trap
As for the person(clicked reply too soon and I'm bored to go back and check) saying you don't get isk for the repro value:
It used to be like that, now you have to actually look for items bought for less than the NPC reprocess values, and that's for optimal repro.
Slowly all non-reactor items are starting to find a use outside interceptor usage, so their prices are slowly rising (can anyone say nanomechanical? )
Ruffio u called me a fat bald man???
I'M NOT BALD!
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.07.05 16:11:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
Quote:
P.S : Don't evemail me about selling them....
Damn, you didn't fall for my trap
As for the person(clicked reply too soon and I'm bored to go back and check) saying you don't get isk for the repro value:
It used to be like that, now you have to actually look for items bought for less than the NPC reprocess values, and that's for optimal repro.
Slowly all non-reactor items are starting to find a use outside interceptor usage, so their prices are slowly rising (can anyone say nanomechanical? )
Ruffio u called me a fat bald man???
I'M NOT BALD!
No, I said you could be a bald man from texas for all I know.. You added the fat part yourself...
Picked up about 1200+ reactors last night  Took me friggin 40+ jumps to collect.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.07.05 16:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
Quote:
P.S : Don't evemail me about selling them....
Damn, you didn't fall for my trap
As for the person(clicked reply too soon and I'm bored to go back and check) saying you don't get isk for the repro value:
It used to be like that, now you have to actually look for items bought for less than the NPC reprocess values, and that's for optimal repro.
Slowly all non-reactor items are starting to find a use outside interceptor usage, so their prices are slowly rising (can anyone say nanomechanical? )
Ruffio u called me a fat bald man???
I'M NOT BALD!
No, I said you could be a bald man from texas for all I know.. You added the fat part yourself...
Picked up about 1200+ reactors last night Took me friggin 40+ jumps to collect.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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UndergrounD
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Posted - 2004.07.05 18:56:00 -
[27]
Working along the lines of the 'hoarding' theory, have you considered that CCP have placed a limit on the maximum amount of Tech 2 components within game?
ie, a maximum of 5000 reactors are available within the EvE universe. in order for more reactors to appear they must be destroyed or recylcled.
Corps hoarding them instead of recylcing/building them could reduce the amount available ingame from agent drops.
But then again agents are probably just borked
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UndergrounD
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Posted - 2004.07.05 18:56:00 -
[28]
Working along the lines of the 'hoarding' theory, have you considered that CCP have placed a limit on the maximum amount of Tech 2 components within game?
ie, a maximum of 5000 reactors are available within the EvE universe. in order for more reactors to appear they must be destroyed or recylcled.
Corps hoarding them instead of recylcing/building them could reduce the amount available ingame from agent drops.
But then again agents are probably just borked
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.05 23:06:00 -
[29]
I have a theory about component drops, but its founded on totally empirical data:
After snatching almost every components for a fixed time period on an entire region I noticed that I managed to gather roughly the same components sets for gallente and caldari (other races were spoiled once I clicked on the damn "stack all").
So I generalized by assuming that at least at that region component drops are rationalized and not at all random.
Since the reprocessing/hoarding of caldari and gallente components (especially the reactors) cannot be the same, I could say that it's not with a fixed amount of components in-game. It rather looks like standard component drop/region/agent/company or anything else that defines a grouping.
Also if there were fixed amounts of components in the game, agent drops would be 0 after the first few months of the tech2 drops, since everyone hoarded them.
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.07.05 23:06:00 -
[30]
I have a theory about component drops, but its founded on totally empirical data:
After snatching almost every components for a fixed time period on an entire region I noticed that I managed to gather roughly the same components sets for gallente and caldari (other races were spoiled once I clicked on the damn "stack all").
So I generalized by assuming that at least at that region component drops are rationalized and not at all random.
Since the reprocessing/hoarding of caldari and gallente components (especially the reactors) cannot be the same, I could say that it's not with a fixed amount of components in-game. It rather looks like standard component drop/region/agent/company or anything else that defines a grouping.
Also if there were fixed amounts of components in the game, agent drops would be 0 after the first few months of the tech2 drops, since everyone hoarded them.
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