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Eluhaf
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Posted - 2008.11.04 00:09:00 -
[1]
Let me know if this has been covered elsewhere, but are there any changes to the non-functioning and non-existant missile counters being released in QR?
There are several ways to reduce/avoid damage from missiles and turrets in game. If we remove range and sensor dampening (generally applicable to both missiles and turrets) and speed (speed tanking, sig radius tanking on same hull size has been eliminated), we are left with cap warfare, ECM and tracking disruptors.
Now comparing 4 weapons systems (Hybrid, Energy, Projectile and Missiles) along those three metrics you end up with Missiles having the clear advantage, Hybrids being the clear losers and Energy/Projectiles being a trade off between suspectible to counters and range:
Missiles - Can be fired when jammed, not suspectible to cap warfare, not suspectible to tracking disrupt/transversal velocity
Projectiles - Can not be fired when jammed, not suspectible to cap warfare, suspectible to tracking disrupt/transversal velocity
Energy - Can not be fired when jammed, suspectible to cap warfare, suspectible to tracking disrupt/transversal velocity
Hybrid - Can not be fired when jammed, suspectible to cap warfare, suspectible to tracking disrupt/transversal velocity
On top of this defender missiles are broken (the weapnos grouping could actually going to boost defenders), very demanding to use (you have to spam the missile button as it only activates while a enemy missile is in the air, and needs to be reactivated for every shot), and removes a damage slot.
Is there anything that I am missing? Was their an announcement that tracking disruptors will affect missiles in any way, or a subsititute module that is releasing with QR?
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 00:15:00 -
[2]
How about this:
* Nearly all missile ships do less dps than turret ships (with basically one exception, the torp Raven)
* Missiles have travel-time.
* Missiles are more reliant upon target painters.
* F.O.F's are no fire & forget weapon, even with ECM they are not comparable in any way to a target lock and firing (both less dps and less accountability).
* Did I say travel time?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.04 00:27:00 -
[3]
You forgot speed 
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Anonymous Troll
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Posted - 2008.11.04 00:31:00 -
[4]
Nerf Missiles MOAR!
Seriously.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.04 00:32:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Eluhaf
Dude, are you being pwned by missile ships? 
Originally by: Ki An
PS. You're full of vitrol and hate... You're socially inept... You're so completely impotent in game... spewing venom over everyone...
^^ One of my "fans"  |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
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Posted - 2008.11.04 00:33:00 -
[6]
And travel time.
Fetchez la vache !
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.04 00:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Eluhaf
and speed (speed tanking, sig radius tanking on same hull size has been eliminated
Actually an AB tanks missiles quite easily on sisi atm.
You should see the amount of missile-spamming whiners on that fourm atm. Apparently they can handle nano-ships getting nerfed, but can't handle their ships getting balanced. But what can you expect from loser drake pilots?
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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F90OEX
F9X
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Posted - 2008.11.04 00:39:00 -
[8]
Fact...
You will be long dead before your FOF missiles kill anything.
Its not uncommon for FOF missiles to have a mind of there own and shoot your unintended target.
The speed of FOF missiles has been bought inline with the coming speed nerf.
In 2 years of pvp I have never seen a FOF missile been fired on me.
Post with your main....
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Eluhaf
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Posted - 2008.11.04 01:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
How about this:
* Nearly all missile ships do less dps than turret ships (with basically one exception, the torp Raven)
* Missiles have travel-time.
* Missiles are more reliant upon target painters.
* F.O.F's are no fire & forget weapon, even with ECM they are not comparable in any way to a target lock and firing (both less dps and less accountability).
* Did I say travel time?
A missile ship does far more damage than a capped or disrupted turret ship that can't hit anything.
I don't see how travel time is that relevant, it might be a deciding factor in 2 comparable ships, or at extreme ranges but most small gang combat happens at 15km range so missile travel time doesn't really do much. In large fleet battles its still going to be turrets and focused fire (no changes)
the fact that you can fit a mid slot damage mod (target painter) and a low slot one is a plus for missile boats, not a downside. And add on top of that the target painter adds bonus to anyone firing on that target it won't be surpising to see more used when you combine with the other benefits that missile ships have.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.04 02:07:00 -
[10]
Op is a troll obviously.
Quote:
Effective Counter to Missiles with Quantum Rise?
Just click Afterburner, become 40% or more resistant to missile damage even before resists. Same size ships even...
Cruise will go away in PvP, the few who used em anyway, there's just no point to them now.
other things: (Mission nerfs)
Raven dies for pve pwnness. Golem or Nh or Nightmare takes the throne. Basically a big nerf to lower sp (Raven) missioners. Medium drone nerf will suck terribly in a lot of missions where you get wads of cruisers and frigs.
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Takon Orlani
Caldari
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.11.04 02:32:00 -
[11]
Missiles, as they are now in SiSi, are completely broken. Even light missiels being fired from T2 ships that effectively get a 50% or more damage bonus can't hit a moving target for more than 20 pts of damage. It's ridiculous right now.
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.11.04 02:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
How about this:
* Nearly all missile ships do less dps than turret ships (with basically one exception, the torp Raven)
* Missiles have travel-time.
* Missiles are more reliant upon target painters.
* F.O.F's are no fire & forget weapon, even with ECM they are not comparable in any way to a target lock and firing (both less dps and less accountability).
* Did I say travel time?
Oh and of course... DEFENDERS, come on people, there's no anti-bullet weapon out there, missiles are easily the most tankable projectile, like everything else in life, you just have to take two or three seconds to figure out how you want to do it.
If OP had spent half the time he spent on making a post just to do a little research...
Scared of the events forum? |
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.11.04 02:38:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Julius Rigel on 04/11/2008 02:37:55
Originally by: Takon Orlani
SiSi
You realize that singularity is a TESTserver, right?
Scared of the events forum? |
Takon Orlani
Caldari
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.11.04 02:42:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Takon Orlani on 04/11/2008 02:45:45
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Edited by: Julius Rigel on 04/11/2008 02:37:55
Originally by: Takon Orlani
SiSi
You realize that singularity is a TESTserver, right?
Of course I do. That's why I pointed it out.
If I were they, I would have left missiles alone, let people see how overpowered they would be after speed changed, then made incremental adjustments to missiles until they were in line. Not whack it with a nerf bat and freak everyone out.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.11.04 02:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Eluhaf
Let me know if this has been covered elsewhere, but are there any changes to the non-functioning and non-existant missile counters being released in QR?
You mean other than what's on the test server?
Oh? You haven't been on the test server? You can't be bothered to log in to the test server? You have to rely on the rest of the EVE community to tell you every little detail, however inaccurate, on the test server?
Well, I'll tell you:
Titans are nerfed, missiles now do splash damage, pod pilots can now fly fighters, and CONCORD is reliable and trustworthy.
(Or, you know, I'm completely full of it... only one way to find out, my good friend)
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Anonymous Troll
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Posted - 2008.11.04 02:52:00 -
[16]
No seriously, nerf missiles MOAR!
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xhardxcorex
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Posted - 2008.11.04 03:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Eluhaf
I don't see how travel time is that relevant
Cloaking troll has just decloaked
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 04:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Eluhaf
anti missile lobbyism
Did you actually make a test on SiSi, how bad missiles now against speed ?
Did you ever hear of Defender Missiles ? For defender missiles you don't even need an extra slot, compared to tracking disruptors.
So missiles are suspectible to: speed (target can outrun missiles, for example a torpedo), missile explosion velocity, explosion signature, defender missiles.
That's even more counters than for turrets.
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Eluhaf
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Posted - 2008.11.04 04:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Oh and of course... DEFENDERS, come on people, there's no anti-bullet weapon out there, missiles are easily the most tankable projectile, like everything else in life, you just have to take two or three seconds to figure out how you want to do it.
If OP had spent half the time he spent on making a post just to do a little research...
Have you ever used defenders? They are broken, as I mentioned in original post, they only effectively target one missile, so you can't use more than 1 (hint drake has more than 1 missile launcher) as multiple go after the same missile. AND you have to constantly spam the defender module to get it to work, its not click and forget like all other modules in the game.
Plus I will post all the battleclinic stat on the oh so brilliant responders just to give an idea of the experience base they come from. So here it goes: Julius Rigs 35 Losses, 27 Kills
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Pliskkenn
Minmatar
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.04 04:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Takon Orlani
Edited by: Takon Orlani on 04/11/2008 02:45:45
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Edited by: Julius Rigel on 04/11/2008 02:37:55
Originally by: Takon Orlani
SiSi
You realize that singularity is a TESTserver, right?
Of course I do. That's why I pointed it out.
If I were they, I would have left missiles alone, let people see how overpowered they would be after speed changed, then made incremental adjustments to missiles until they were in line. Not whack it with a nerf bat and freak everyone out.
S'funny how missile users are saying that now when I'm pretty sure they wanted drastic changes to something esle not so long back.....
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Verx Interis
Amarr
Aurora Security
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2008.11.04 04:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Soporo
Just click Afterburner, become 40% or more resistant to missile damage even before resists. Same size ships even...
Cruise will go away in PvP, the few who used em anyway, there's just no point to them now.
Well there will be a few uses, seeing has torpedos still have wtffail range. Mainly in large fleets where you're less mobile and need that extra range cause you don't have time to get in 30km.
But that's about all they're used for in PvP now.
---------
Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points.
Eve job list |
Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.11.04 04:23:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jim Hazard on 04/11/2008 04:23:51
Originally by: Eluhaf
Plus I will post all the battleclinic stat on the oh so brilliant responders just to give an idea of the experience base they come from. So here it goes: Julius Rigs 35 Losses, 27 Kills
And you believe 468:125 are good stats or Rank 13k is something anyone is impressed about? Not very wise to point at others when you are not in the situation to do that.
Do not bother about checking my stats you will see nothing on BC since that is just some forum alt as i can not really go against my own corp policy of not posting on the forums ;).
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Kathryn Dougans
Amarr
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2008.11.04 04:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Soporo
other things: (Mission nerfs)
Medium drone nerf will suck terribly in a lot of missions where you get wads of cruisers and frigs.
I tried hammerheads against npc cruisers and frigates, and they seemed alright, even with their 125m signature resolution.
So they'll be fine, I think. Seems like their tracking's been improved.
Don't ask me about the cows. |
Eluhaf
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Posted - 2008.11.04 04:32:00 -
[24]
To be honest I don't know why I even bother to make a post on these forums, it really just highlights all the idiots that play this game.
The only poster on this whole thread that has any Battleclinic record to speak of is f90OX, and his point on FOF missiles is correct (though I have seen them used once by a BOB raven going against a known vaga and falcon combo), but it still remains that FOF are an option that only missile users enjoy.
As for all the rest of you touting travel time and Defenders, get over it. Defenders are near worthless. They work ok against single missile points ships like a hurricane, but would not be worth the trade off if you were going against a drake. I can take an turret fitted BC completely out of the equation by fitting 2 tracking disruptors.
tell me the situation (outside of a ranged fleet battle) where travel time is relevant? the changes to everything aren't going to change fleet BS battles much at all as far as I can tell, still be blobs of focused fired turret ships.
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Eluhaf
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Posted - 2008.11.04 04:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jim Hazard
And you believe 468:125 are good stats or Rank 13k is something anyone is impressed about? Not very wise to point at others when you are not in the situation to do that.
Do not bother about checking my stats you will see nothing on BC since that is just some forum alt as i can not really go against my own corp policy of not posting on the forums ;).
468 kills, and last almost 100 as solo kills makes posts a lot more relevant than most everyone here. Not my fault you belong/lead a corp that you don't agree with, but if you are going to post try to say something that is relevant at least.
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Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.11.04 05:03:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Jim Hazard on 04/11/2008 05:06:40
Originally by: Eluhaf
Originally by: Jim Hazard
And you believe 468:125 are good stats or Rank 13k is something anyone is impressed about? Not very wise to point at others when you are not in the situation to do that.
Do not bother about checking my stats you will see nothing on BC since that is just some forum alt as i can not really go against my own corp policy of not posting on the forums ;).
468 kills, and last almost 100 as solo kills makes posts a lot more relevant than most everyone here. Not my fault you belong/lead a corp that you don't agree with, but if you are going to post try to say something that is relevant at least.
1st. Where did i say that i am against that policy?
2nd. Stats mean nothing (and my stats are by far better than yours)
My point just is that its really narrow minded to take a killboard some ppl possibly never cared about, never bothered posting kills at as reference for anything, just to point out that he does not have any clue what he is talking about and trying to look cool yourself.
edit: I do not want to defend the defender missiles argument though, its utter bull****. Just in general it makes you look silly when you point at others like you did there....
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Centra Spike
Reaper Industries
Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.11.04 05:11:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Centra Spike on 04/11/2008 05:12:40
Anecdotal evidence and killboard statistics help me prove my points!
EDIT: Fit smartbombs and blow missiles up! OMG Smartbombs don't affect Projectiles, Hybrids or Lasers! WTF CCP?
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.11.04 05:12:00 -
[28]
Look at my sig, theres your counter 
EVE history
Missiles post-nerf |
Falkus Windowmaker
Minmatar
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.11.04 05:33:00 -
[29]
How about instead of shooting missiles we change it to shooting water guns in space. Cuzz we know how freaking ub3r fof missiles are in pvp.
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.04 08:55:00 -
[30]
Correction:
Originally by: Eluhaf
Missiles - Can be fired when jammed, not suspectible to cap warfare, not suspectible to tracking disrupt/transversal velocity
Missiles - Cannot be fired when jammed unless you change ammo, or choose to run around doing uncontrolled, sfa damage all the time; not susceptible to cap warfare; not susceptible to tracking disruption; susceptible to velocity, regardless of whether it's transversal or not.
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