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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.07.09 08:03:00 -
[1]
You have a problems with missiles and no problem with guns. Most of ppls have a problems with guns and NO problems with missile. Missiles now fast, cheap, hit ALL times and do A MUCH of damage.
I have a Tempest and I have A MUCH of problems to hit NPC crusers for example. At yesterday I have a fight with 2 Arch Angel cruisers. My 4x800mm miss most of times (distance 18-20km) and if it hit, then hit 30-40  . I spend may be 500-700 Phased Plasma L to killing of these NPC. Can you have the situation with Raven? 
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.07.09 08:03:00 -
[2]
You have a problems with missiles and no problem with guns. Most of ppls have a problems with guns and NO problems with missile. Missiles now fast, cheap, hit ALL times and do A MUCH of damage.
I have a Tempest and I have A MUCH of problems to hit NPC crusers for example. At yesterday I have a fight with 2 Arch Angel cruisers. My 4x800mm miss most of times (distance 18-20km) and if it hit, then hit 30-40 . I spend may be 500-700 Phased Plasma L to killing of these NPC. Can you have the situation with Raven?
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.07.09 08:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kalarin on 09/07/2004 08:53:22
 Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
Fast: atm nope, sux really badly when they tag around at 1600ms, npcs can travel faster than that.
Is ANY large turret will hit at these situations? But are you can have ANY problems with NPC (crusers for example) at 10-30km from you?
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
Cheap? Hardly think so. I dont make any money killing frigs with Cruise Missiles, and taking out a NPC battleship, will cost me at least 100k isk,
May be you think what I make a profit with spending of 500 Phased Plasma L on 2 NPC crusers? I will run out of ammo very fast if I will try to hunt NPC with this sort of "guns". But you will kill these rats VERY quickly.
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
Hit all the time? Have you used defenders or Smartbombs lately? Two small rocketlaunchers with defenders can neutralize two siege launchers, as defenders seems to be fireing at the last launched missile and not the closest one.
Than I must to fit 3-4 small rocket launchers with defenders for having a some protection from Raven? Is this battleship will have any use? :)
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.07.09 08:46:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kalarin on 09/07/2004 08:53:22
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
Fast: atm nope, sux really badly when they tag around at 1600ms, npcs can travel faster than that.
Is ANY large turret will hit at these situations? But are you can have ANY problems with NPC (crusers for example) at 10-30km from you?
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
Cheap? Hardly think so. I dont make any money killing frigs with Cruise Missiles, and taking out a NPC battleship, will cost me at least 100k isk,
May be you think what I make a profit with spending of 500 Phased Plasma L on 2 NPC crusers? I will run out of ammo very fast if I will try to hunt NPC with this sort of "guns". But you will kill these rats VERY quickly.
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
Hit all the time? Have you used defenders or Smartbombs lately? Two small rocketlaunchers with defenders can neutralize two siege launchers, as defenders seems to be fireing at the last launched missile and not the closest one.
Than I must to fit 3-4 small rocket launchers with defenders for having a some protection from Raven? Is this battleship will have any use? :)
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.07.09 14:36:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
I dont really know what you have fitted on your ship, cus with my Apoc at least I have no problems hitting cruisers down to 10km, I could even kill them at shorter distances than that with my Megabeams.
I use 800mm. I can kill them also, but spending so much bullets for 2 crusers seems very bad. And I think that I can't hunt NPC crusers with this hit ratio and DoT.
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
And if you manage to spend that many rounds killing a cruiser, then you need to look at the transverse speed you have towards the cruisers.
But for Raven you don't need to think about of "transverse speen" at all. Than you have for example a possibily point Raven to safe point and if you have a problems - very quickly warp out. For other BS - no.
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
And you actually could fit faster tracking guns, tracking enhancers etc on your ship, versus a Raven has no option of helping its missiles.
Raven don't need these options :). Missiles hit most of times :).
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
You can fit heavy missile launcher for use against the cruisers and frigs, Raven can not without lowering its main weapons versus you wont have to.
Can you explain me that? Are you think what fitting at another BS heavy missile launcher will not "lowering its main weapon versus"? Raven has a bonus for missiles, another BS - not. What BS will nerf more after fitting of heavy missile launcher? 
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.07.09 14:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
I dont really know what you have fitted on your ship, cus with my Apoc at least I have no problems hitting cruisers down to 10km, I could even kill them at shorter distances than that with my Megabeams.
I use 800mm. I can kill them also, but spending so much bullets for 2 crusers seems very bad. And I think that I can't hunt NPC crusers with this hit ratio and DoT.
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
And if you manage to spend that many rounds killing a cruiser, then you need to look at the transverse speed you have towards the cruisers.
But for Raven you don't need to think about of "transverse speen" at all. Than you have for example a possibily point Raven to safe point and if you have a problems - very quickly warp out. For other BS - no.
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
And you actually could fit faster tracking guns, tracking enhancers etc on your ship, versus a Raven has no option of helping its missiles.
Raven don't need these options :). Missiles hit most of times :).
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
You can fit heavy missile launcher for use against the cruisers and frigs, Raven can not without lowering its main weapons versus you wont have to.
Can you explain me that? Are you think what fitting at another BS heavy missile launcher will not "lowering its main weapon versus"? Raven has a bonus for missiles, another BS - not. What BS will nerf more after fitting of heavy missile launcher?
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.08.02 15:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Kalarin on 02/08/2004 15:48:24
A good idea for protecting of frigs - rearming time for a fast missiles (cruise). Torpedos and light\heavy missiles may not has a rearming time, for for cruise - it will be ok. All guns has a range of usebility (short-range, mid-range, long-range), but missiles - don't. I think it can be same. Rockets, light, heavy missiles and torpedoes must be short-middle range weapons only (0-30km) and cruise missiles - long range only (30km+).
And may be some nerfing for manevrability of fast missiles also will be good. A big missiles must miss a small or\and fast ships a much (similar with L guns).
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.08.02 15:46:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kalarin on 02/08/2004 15:48:24
A good idea for protecting of frigs - rearming time for a fast missiles (cruise). Torpedos and light\heavy missiles may not has a rearming time, for for cruise - it will be ok. All guns has a range of usebility (short-range, mid-range, long-range), but missiles - don't. I think it can be same. Rockets, light, heavy missiles and torpedoes must be short-middle range weapons only (0-30km) and cruise missiles - long range only (30km+).
And may be some nerfing for manevrability of fast missiles also will be good. A big missiles must miss a small or\and fast ships a much (similar with L guns).
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.08.02 17:19:00 -
[9]
Then may be do a simple thing - zero damage from torpedos and cruise on frigs (and may be 1\2 or 3\5 of damage to cruisers)?  All other BS must use S and M guns (and webifer) to hit a frigs at short range. If Raven pilotes will have to use Assault\Standard\Heavy Launchers (and web) for hit frigs - it will be OK (and VERY similar with other BS pilotes). And Raven will still be a good ship - it has a bonus to ALL missile launchers (not only for large versions, as all other BS).
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.08.02 17:19:00 -
[10]
Then may be do a simple thing - zero damage from torpedos and cruise on frigs (and may be 1\2 or 3\5 of damage to cruisers)? All other BS must use S and M guns (and webifer) to hit a frigs at short range. If Raven pilotes will have to use Assault\Standard\Heavy Launchers (and web) for hit frigs - it will be OK (and VERY similar with other BS pilotes). And Raven will still be a good ship - it has a bonus to ALL missile launchers (not only for large versions, as all other BS).
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.08.03 07:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Clan MacGregor
That would be a very Un-realistic method of modelling the effects of missiles and torpedos. Torpedo's hit frigates regardless.
Are you joking? Is laser (for example) can miss in real life? But I think - all BS pilotes can be in same position. If some BS must use S and M weapons for hit small and fast targets, then ALL BS with similar DoT MUST has the problems. And frigs\crusers must has a chance to survive from ALL BS. No BS can has ability to be effective against of all (with similar DoT), if some BS dosn't has the ability.
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.08.03 07:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Clan MacGregor
That would be a very Un-realistic method of modelling the effects of missiles and torpedos. Torpedo's hit frigates regardless.
Are you joking? Is laser (for example) can miss in real life? But I think - all BS pilotes can be in same position. If some BS must use S and M weapons for hit small and fast targets, then ALL BS with similar DoT MUST has the problems. And frigs\crusers must has a chance to survive from ALL BS. No BS can has ability to be effective against of all (with similar DoT), if some BS dosn't has the ability.
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