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Gosakumori Noh
Viziam Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 23:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Manwe Todako wrote:Those who brutalize their slaves should be immediately punished. Those who do not, should take next step and emancipate their slaves.
What would the poor things do? Drink themselves into pot bellies and lethargy? It would be a travesty! |
Manwe Todako
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
192
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 02:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
I find it very sad that so many people of the tribes, once they become capsuleers, feel so threatened when confronted by the truth of slavery. How do they manifest that fear? Usually name-calling. Worse, many capsuleers have grown so fat off of the status quo of continued war and continued slavery, that to give anything other than lip service to abolition is too great a threat
I have watched the discussion on this forum and on the com channels. Pilots seldom are willing to risk significant disagreement with their cherished social circles. Instead, the discussion goes on and on in the same circles and little is done other than a lot of hand wringing. Objection after objection is made as to the impracticality of pressing for abolition. "Oh, we can't free the slaves, some of them might be criminals." On it goes. Those who dare make the status-quo uncomfortable by regularly reminding the community of the evil of slavery are attacked and vilified. Where is the Vherokior, Brutor, Sebiestor, etc capsuleer pilot? If you are not offending someone by your anti-slavery efforts, your efforts are likely too small. Get off your dainty, ecto-plasm soaked butt and do something.
As for Ms. Farel's accusations; they are made in ignorance and fear. Ms. Farel is too afraid to lose her club status with those on both sides of the fence to take any kind of real stand. So what is left for her other than to vilify those who are actually doing something and not just talking. Is your social circle more important that your tribe brothers and sisters still in slavery, Ms. Farel of the Brutor tribe?
As for freeing criminals, you speak out of turn. The Disciples know the difference between the slave and the slaver and the militant and the soldier. Your criticism is false. SANKOFA |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
225
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 08:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
You move in the wrong circles, Todako.
Also, some of us care less about offending slavers in public than about liberating the slaves. Why should we provoke people who can and will make our operations that much harder? |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
245
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 11:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Manwe Todako wrote:Usually name-calling.
Petty slander. This was not about name-calling, or if you really want to consider it name-calling, so be it. But it remains a fact before all : you are an ignorant, Mr Ston.
And one things is worse than ignorance : to content oneself in ignorance.
Manwe Todako wrote:"Oh, we can't free the slaves, some of them might be criminals." On it goes.
Caricatures and hyperboles will not make your point any more valid.
Manwe Todako wrote:As for freeing criminals, you speak out of turn. The Disciples know the difference between the slave and the slaver and the militant and the soldier. Your criticism is false.
Irrelevant. You may know the difference between a slave and a slaver, but you obviously do not seem to know the differences between your slaves.
Manwe Todako wrote:As for Ms. Farel's accusations; they are made in ignorance and fear. Ms. Farel is too afraid to lose her club status with those on both sides of the fence to take any kind of real stand. So what is left for her other than to vilify those who are actually doing something and not just talking. Is your social circle more important that your tribe brothers and sisters still in slavery, Ms. Farel of the Brutor tribe?
Fear ? You speak again out of ignorance. You can ask PIE Inc and Ms Vitalia about my beliefs on the concept of God and how it turned out when I was still in the Amarr Militia. You can ask Ms Surionen that I consider part of my small social circle how I sometimes tell her how I disagree on a few things. Actually, you can ask that to almost anyone I know. I speak my mind when I have to.
You can also dig up in my old records and see that I freed exactly 713 slaves owned by my own House when I took up the sucession - Ms Sakura Imoru can testify for that. And it may not be to the scale of what your organisation deal with daily, but at least I triaged them before and made sure that all the ones enslaved for criminal acts in the Empire were kept enslaved and transfered elsewhere. Slavery abolition may not be my primary and daily occupation, but at least I know what I am dealing with. |
Manwe Todako
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
192
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 12:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote: Slavery abolition may not be my primary and daily occupation, .
Perhaps it should be. What are you presently doing that is more important?
SANKOFA |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
245
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 18:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
Manwe Todako wrote:Lyn Farel wrote: Slavery abolition may not be my primary and daily occupation, . Perhaps it should be. What are you presently doing that is more important?
Science. I also repel pirate threats and Sansha incursions, that are one of the source of the homeless and people you rescue as you may know. I look at the bigger picture. And, of course, to everyone their own field of expertise, where they are the most needed.
Also, thank you for having ignored all my points. |
Gosakumori Noh
Viziam Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 19:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Also, thank you for having ignored all my points.
I predict! .... he will do so again.
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Manwe Todako
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
192
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 19:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote: Also, thank you for having ignored all my points.
Start making points instead of excuses and you won't be ignored.
SANKOFA |
Gosakumori Noh
Viziam Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 20:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
Manwe Todako wrote:Lyn Farel wrote: Also, thank you for having ignored all my points.
Start making points instead of excuses and you won't be ignored.
My prescient powers are truly frightening. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
267
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 21:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Minmatar below the age of 30 shouldn't have freedom, as they are a brutish and warmongering people and must be taught proper ideals before they are allowed to become a full citizen within society. |
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
601
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 21:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Minmatar below the age of 30 shouldn't have freedom, as they are a brutish and warmongering people and must be taught proper ideals before they are allowed to become a full citizen within society. Are you saying that the Empress is wrong? |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
267
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 21:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote:Aranakas wrote:Minmatar below the age of 30 shouldn't have freedom, as they are a brutish and warmongering people and must be taught proper ideals before they are allowed to become a full citizen within society. Are you saying that the Empress is wrong?
I'm the emperor. My authority trumps the empress's. |
Jon Engel
Machete Carbide
23
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 04:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Manwe Todako wrote:There is no discussion, people. To enslave another human is an abomination to God. God has not nor needs to call any people to enslave another. Slavery is not Godly and those who enslave others are disobeying God. Those who oppose slavery need to stop the soft peddle arguments. Take for instance the whole point of this thread in dividing slave holders into two groups: those who mistreat their slaves and those who don't. The truth? Every slave is mistreated by virtue of being a slave. Slavery is mistreatment.
Those who brutalize their slaves should be immediately punished. Those who do not, should take next step and emancipate their slaves.
Those who accept either from fear or indoctrination, servitude to another. Deserve their fate. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
233
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 07:40:00 -
[44] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Arkady Sadik wrote:Aranakas wrote:Minmatar below the age of 30 shouldn't have freedom, as they are a brutish and warmongering people and must be taught proper ideals before they are allowed to become a full citizen within society. Are you saying that the Empress is wrong? I'm the emperor. My authority trumps the empress's. Certainly you Empire folks can burn this guy? |
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 10:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Aranakas wrote:Arkady Sadik wrote:Aranakas wrote:Minmatar below the age of 30 shouldn't have freedom, as they are a brutish and warmongering people and must be taught proper ideals before they are allowed to become a full citizen within society. Are you saying that the Empress is wrong? I'm the emperor. My authority trumps the empress's. Certainly you Empire folks can burn this guy?
That's twice in as many minutes this thread has made me laugh now. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
819
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 17:45:00 -
[46] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Aranakas wrote:Arkady Sadik wrote:Aranakas wrote:Minmatar below the age of 30 shouldn't have freedom, as they are a brutish and warmongering people and must be taught proper ideals before they are allowed to become a full citizen within society. Are you saying that the Empress is wrong? I'm the emperor. My authority trumps the empress's. Certainly you Empire folks can burn this guy?
I'll be sure to add him to my list.
However, there are are a lot of names above him. Your's for example.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
233
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 18:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aww, come on. How nice of you. I really do appreciate the compliment. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
269
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 19:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Aranakas wrote:Arkady Sadik wrote:Aranakas wrote:Minmatar below the age of 30 shouldn't have freedom, as they are a brutish and warmongering people and must be taught proper ideals before they are allowed to become a full citizen within society. Are you saying that the Empress is wrong? I'm the emperor. My authority trumps the empress's. Certainly you Empire folks can burn this guy?
Burning the Emperor is heresy, I advise against it. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Robotics Darkmatter Initiative
483
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Surely I'm not the only one who can see a slight resemblance between Arakanas and General Blake.
Not like Arakanas his equally bald heretical twin, but there's something.. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Merdaneth
Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
105
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 21:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
I think everyone agrees that irresponsible people shouldn't be given to much power over others. This applies to slave owners, parents, prison wardens and presidents.
I don't think an age limit will suffice. There are people under 30 who can act reponsibly, and people over 30 who don't. |
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
820
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 09:05:00 -
[51] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:Surely I'm not the only one who can see a slight resemblance between Arakanas and General Blake.
Not like I'm suggesting that Arakanas is Rodj's equally bald heretical twin, but there's something..
We look nothing like each other and many people consider the phrase "you all look alike" to be somewhat racist.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
235
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 09:41:00 -
[52] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:Surely I'm not the only one who can see a slight resemblance between Arakanas and General Blake.
Not like I'm suggesting that Arakanas is Rodj's equally bald heretical twin, but there's something.. Apart from them both being apparently high-class Amarrian, I have to say I do not see the resemblance. |
Ava Starfire
Skadi's Call
227
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 14:10:00 -
[53] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Surely I'm not the only one who can see a slight resemblance between Arakanas and General Blake.
Not like I'm suggesting that Arakanas is Rodj's equally bald heretical twin, but there's something.. Apart from them both being apparently high-class Amarrian, I have to say I do not see the resemblance.
Just close your eyes.
The resemblance becomes far more obvious. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Robotics Darkmatter Initiative
483
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 15:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Surely I'm not the only one who can see a slight resemblance between Arakanas and General Blake.
Not like I'm suggesting that Arakanas is Rodj's equally bald heretical twin, but there's something.. Apart from them both being apparently high-class Amarrian, I have to say I do not see the resemblance.
Probably just the stern look, flabby hanging cheeks and pointy nose.
Oh and the really shiny heads.
I did say it was slight.
Rodj Blake wrote:We look nothing like each other and many people consider the phrase "you all look alike" to be somewhat racist.
Good job I never made such a comment then isn't it Admiral. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
235
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 18:37:00 -
[55] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Surely I'm not the only one who can see a slight resemblance between Arakanas and General Blake.
Not like I'm suggesting that Arakanas is Rodj's equally bald heretical twin, but there's something.. Apart from them both being apparently high-class Amarrian, I have to say I do not see the resemblance. Probably just the stern look, flabby hanging cheeks and pointy nose. Oh and the really shiny heads. That's the high-class Amarrian part. Since Captain Blake probably already considers me a racist and thinks it's a bad thing, and so I have no reputation to lose here, I'll venture to add that they all do look a little same that way. |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
246
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 22:27:00 -
[56] - Quote
That is not really nice. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
237
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 06:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
What's the not nice part? You can tell most Amarrians to be Amarrians by one glance on docksides, just like you can recognize most Sebs to be Sebs or Civire to be Civire. That's just how things are. Pretending something else would be just silly. Of course you have to understand that you can make a mistake and not presume without confirming in the case of an unknown individual, but beyond that, I do not really get what it "not nice" saying that a high-class Amarrian looks like a high-class Amarrian. Or are they so ashamed of being what they are that this is an insult?
(Maybe they should be. But somehow I don't think this is the case.) |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Robotics Darkmatter Initiative
483
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 11:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: That's the high-class Amarrian part.
Ah, I thought you were making reference to their gold on black with gold trim clothing. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
246
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 12:14:00 -
[59] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:What's the not nice part? You can tell most Amarrians to be Amarrians by one glance on docksides, just like you can recognize most Sebs to be Sebs or Civire to be Civire. That's just how things are. Pretending something else would be just silly. Of course you have to understand that you can make a mistake and not presume without confirming in the case of an unknown individual, but beyond that, I do not really get what it "not nice" saying that a high-class Amarrian looks like a high-class Amarrian. Or are they so ashamed of being what they are that this is an insult?
(Maybe they should be. But somehow I don't think this is the case.)
If this is so obvious, then why stating it ? |
Diana Kim
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
44
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 14:32:00 -
[60] - Quote
This is wrong. This is completely wrong. Why this age discrimination? Maybe this all concept of slavery is a bit alien for me, but as I understand it, it is a mere combination of property, management and leadership skills. You can tell the same way, that people below 30 or 40 shouldn't be able to fly spaceships. Or shouldn't be allowed to take head positions. Or shouldn't have children.//gra
This is simply wrong. No one was born equal, no one was born the same. One peoples are smart at very young age, others can't handle situations at proper age.
If you want to propose some limitations, please make them more reasonable, for example, "gallente shouldn't have slaves", or "gallente shouldn't fly spaceships", or "gallente shouldn't be allowed to take head positions", etc... |
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