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CornerStoner
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Posted - 2008.11.07 06:10:00 -
[1]
After reading and considering the thread by Cosmoray (Raising capital in 2008) I decided to launch a project I have considered for a while.
Eve Securities and Exchange Bureau (ESEXB)
This is NOT an IPO, but another tool that I hope can enhance and stimulate the secondary market. ItÆs intended purpose:
 Gather and organize historical, current and future data of IPOs and Bonds.
Make information like Cosmoray collected available without the searching.
Serve as a central location for CEOs to post reports and maths.
Act as an index of IPO threads in the MD forums.
Make it easier to conduct research on trends and statistics.
I have created an alt and a corp to help manage the in-game content to be used. He will not be trading, selling, buying, running missions, PVP, renting offices or anything else. His sole purpose is to hold a share of each member corporation.
The site is in its infancy and needs some refining on the layout and content. To give it a kick start I have transferred to ESEXB 1 share of each public corp that I own shares in. These corps will be the initial member corporations. What little data I have or can find will be listed on these corps as I gather it. I would appreciate it if these corps would assist me by submitting data that can be used in a spreadsheet format. (Google documents)
IÆd like some input (or flames) on this from regular MD posters & lurkers.
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ESEXB
EVE Securities and Exchange Bureau
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Posted - 2008.11.07 06:11:00 -
[2]
This is the CEO of the corp that holds the shares.
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Cheopis
Ardishapur Ammunition and More
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Posted - 2008.11.07 06:32:00 -
[3]
This seems as if it is going to be a great deal of effort, and yet you are not indicating how you will benefit from it.
You may wish to indicate how you expect to be compensated for your time and effort, as it is better for you to tell us how you plan to be compensated rather than let us try to figure it out for ourselves, and speculate 
I am guessing that even though your alt will not be buying and selling shares, your main will be allowed to do so. Is this how you plan on compensating yourself for the huge workload that you might pick up if this idea takes off?
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CornerStoner
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Posted - 2008.11.07 07:19:00 -
[4]
I see your point. Thats why I'd like input on it. At present I was considering the 10% of dividends received as compensation. I picked 10% because I'm not sure what would be acceptable. 50%? 80%?
In addition to my "cut" my compensation is the learning experience. I know...I'm supposed to have some kind of angle to go along with this whole idea, but it's really because I'm interested in knowing why some IPOs flourish and some fail. If I can expand my own operations based on observing the performance of others that would be compensation enough. I dont expect CEOs to post their secrets and tactics, but I'm fairly new around here and if I can benefit by observing others, while performing a service, I'd be happy.
I wont lie and say I don't plan on buying and selling shares if this does take off, but I wont have any more information than what regular shareholders have. What I hope to acheive is a more active market where buying and selling shares on the 2 stock exchanges can be profitable.
I could type a whole wall of text about it, but I think you get my point. I'm just testing the waters to see if there is any interest in a service like this.
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Cheopis
Ardishapur Ammunition and More
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Posted - 2008.11.07 07:42:00 -
[5]
Ah so what you are looking to do then is create a public information warehouse, where you, along with others, would be able to compare data on different companies in order to analyze the effectiveness of different approaches to working the market.
The only thing you would want above and beyond what others would also have access to would be a % of the dividends of the tracking shares that the holding corp collects.
In essence, you want to create a tool to help you learn how the EVE market works, and you want to make it public and available so that others will willingly share data that might otherwise never be available to you.
I can see the attraction of this, and it still seems to be a lot of work you might be setting yourself up for. The biggest problem I can see you having is that many corps are going to be skittish about giving you hard numbers if you are going to be making those numbers public. Being audited is one thing, but publicly putting your numbers out there is another, as lots of people will be doing exactly what you want the tool for - looking for how to make isks. A corp that is actually doing very well will normally not want to broadcast this to the world, as it will encourage others to horn in on their business. What you are more likely to get is an index of poor to moderate profitable corps, which could give you a good idea of how NOT to make isks at worst, and how to make moderate isks at best. 
Now this might not be a bad thing, but I'm not sure it's what you are looking for.
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Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
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Posted - 2008.11.07 08:37:00 -
[6]
I like the concept so far. I will look into it more later (I be sleepy) and get back to you with some feedback. Otherwise good luck on the idea I hope you stick with it and this becomes a vital service for the secondary market.
Dynasty Banking |
CornerStoner
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Posted - 2008.11.07 12:33:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Cheopis
I can see the attraction of this, and it still seems to be a lot of work you might be setting yourself up for. The biggest problem I can see you having is that many corps are going to be skittish about giving you hard numbers if you are going to be making those numbers public. Being audited is one thing, but publicly putting your numbers out there is another, as lots of people will be doing exactly what you want the tool for - looking for how to make isks. A corp that is actually doing very well will normally not want to broadcast this to the world, as it will encourage others to horn in on their business. What you are more likely to get is an index of poor to moderate profitable corps, which could give you a good idea of how NOT to make isks at worst, and how to make moderate isks at best.
This issue is the one that will either make or break my idea. Again, by holding one share I wont have any more data than anyone else owning shares. I'll just be making it available to everyone. Publishing the dividend per share, ROI, and the IPO thread isn't going to expose member corps to any extra competition. It will be up to each CEO if they want to make anything available above and beyond that. Hopefully a full range of corps will be willing to participate.
I had concerns about the workload also. I have spent about 4 hours over a period of a few days to layout the site and change things around a few times. I was suprised how simple Google Sites was to use and how Easily Google Documents integrated with it. Look at the slick forms Block Ukx used for his Orca bond auction. They take all of 5 minutes to edit and publish.
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Block Ukx
Block Ships and Ammunitions
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Posted - 2008.11.07 13:54:00 -
[8]
WOW, I missed google launched google sites. IÆm definitely moving BSAC's website over to google.
CornerStoner,
Excellent idea to motivate the secondary market! My only concern is that you might get tired of it and give up on the project. Other than that, I will encourage you to continue. What about shares that don't pay dividends and bonds recorded ellectronically?
Links you might find useful:
BSAC Financial Reports
IPOÆs and Bonds
BSAC Corporate Bonds
Recorded electronically
Block Mineral Reserve prospectus and Information Desk
Tickers: BSAMR and BSAMT
BSAC Mineral Reserve
Ticker: BSACC
BSAC Capital Ships Fund
Ticker: BSAC
This one needs a revised prospectus.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Cheopis
Ardishapur Ammunition and More
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Posted - 2008.11.07 16:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CornerStoner
Originally by: Cheopis
I can see the attraction of this, and it still seems to be a lot of work you might be setting yourself up for. The biggest problem I can see you having is that many corps are going to be skittish about giving you hard numbers if you are going to be making those numbers public. Being audited is one thing, but publicly putting your numbers out there is another, as lots of people will be doing exactly what you want the tool for - looking for how to make isks. A corp that is actually doing very well will normally not want to broadcast this to the world, as it will encourage others to horn in on their business. What you are more likely to get is an index of poor to moderate profitable corps, which could give you a good idea of how NOT to make isks at worst, and how to make moderate isks at best.
This issue is the one that will either make or break my idea. Again, by holding one share I wont have any more data than anyone else owning shares. I'll just be making it available to everyone. Publishing the dividend per share, ROI, and the IPO thread isn't going to expose member corps to any extra competition. It will be up to each CEO if they want to make anything available above and beyond that. Hopefully a full range of corps will be willing to participate.
I had concerns about the workload also. I have spent about 4 hours over a period of a few days to layout the site and change things around a few times. I was suprised how simple Google Sites was to use and how Easily Google Documents integrated with it. Look at the slick forms Block Ukx used for his Orca bond auction. They take all of 5 minutes to edit and publish.
What I brought up need not make or break your idea, it might just redirect it. And it might not even do that.
Even if most of the corps that participate and give information are failing corps, or barely profitable ones, there is information there that is useful. You can learn as much about running a business by studying failure or mediocrity as you can by studying success.
It appears as if at least one successful corp is prepared to show you their data, which means you have one good comparison point to measure corps against already.
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TheVad
Amarr
Metalworks
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Posted - 2008.11.07 16:27:00 -
[10]
Cornerstoner,
It is nice to see someone (who has time) stepping up to the plate trying to create a tool to capture initial IPO information and monthly data. I have a couple of suggestions as you launch this that you may or may not already be considering.
1) Create a form that a CEO can fill out monthly to capture 7-12 critical pieces of information (dividend payout, gross revenue, etc). It is critical that we come up with a list and get general CEO buy-in on the granularity & type of information you want them to provide/ collect. We need to clearly communicate the benefit to them and the community for each of these.
2) Come up with the initial set of data/information you want when registering the IPO. Again make sure we get buy in on these critical pieces of data form the CEO community (Corp name, launch date, etc).
I believe that the CEO community at large as well as the investment community can benefit form this a great deal. We need to remember that while a company is now providing more visibility into their corporation, they are also getting viability into other corporations. This ôhealth trackingö of IPOÆs will also contribute to the long tem reputation of a corporation and the trust of the secondary market investors. When a corp. has been running for 3 years and makes its minimum dividend commitments to its shareholders, this viability will boots the corporations/CEO reputation and trust level.
The reputation benefit alone to me is worth sharing some information on my corporation.
I hope that a CEO is willing to spend 3-5 minutes a month filling out 7-12 pieces of data (which they should already have) for their corp.
TheVad
Project Manager & Chief Editor| www.eve-bank.net
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Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
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Posted - 2008.11.07 17:58:00 -
[11]
I really like the idea and the Google Site works really nicely. It terms of the current concerns I would look at publishing Cash Flow numbers much like Google Finance does. It give you the break down of what the total costs were per department and where money came in based on activity and gives a profitability break down based on those numbers. This would allow you to still maintain some level of confidentiality in terms of the specifics of a corps operations (like what they specifically sold rather than just a 150M sales revenue as I am suggesting).
Its just an idea to address the concerns that have been risen.
Dynasty Banking |
CornerStoner
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Posted - 2008.11.07 22:28:00 -
[12]
Block,
Shares that don't pay dividends, bonds recorded electronically and zero coupon bonds are instuments that I hadn't considered, but I will now! I do have a section in the Policies & Procedures that attempts to cover those. It would basically be dependant on the CEO submitting performance data via Eve-mail or Email. A share/bond holder can declare a challenge if they believe the info has been misrepresented.
And thanks for the links, I'll be adding them tonight hopefully.
TheVad,
A form is a great idea. My only concern is the ability of anyone submitting data for a corp, or the form being spammed by greifers. My only solution for now is data being sent by EVE-mail or Email as I can only get a certain amount from owning a share.
I have considered how granular to go with this, but have made no decisions. Afterall, I can only extract so much information from a dividend. I wanted a little more input from the community on layout and content before I finalize the way things will work. If you look at Cosmoray Construction you can see what my starting line looks like.
My initial set of data so far is outlined in the Policies & procedures. I know this section needs work as some of the requirements might seem overly intrusive.
Manalapan,
Cash flow, gross revenue, current NAV, etc.. would definetly make the project more of a success. Like TheVad said, getting CEOs onboard as to what level of exposure they are willing to release. Some CEO's already publish such numbers in regular update threads. If the others could be convinced that the benefits of doing so outweigh the risks it would be a real kick start to the secondary market.
I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. (keep them coming!!!) I wanted the content to be a collaberative effort from everyone who could benefit from it.
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TheVad
Amarr
Metalworks
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Posted - 2008.11.07 23:04:00 -
[13]
Edited by: TheVad on 07/11/2008 23:06:57
Originally by: CornerStoner
Block,
TheVad,
A form is a great idea. My only concern is the ability of anyone submitting data for a corp, or the form being spammed by greifers. My only solution for now is data being sent by EVE-mail or Email as I can only get a certain amount from owning a share.
I do not know what google sites offer but if you can have a mechanism for control over approving a form or giving only "approved CEOs" access to the form, it should cut out the spam. Anyways yes data quality is something that needs to be maintained and thats why I was looking at a form with perhaps drop downs when appropriate for an attribute." Even a form template that CEO's fill out and then send via email is decent.
Actually EBANK uses 2 open source tools (they integrate) and beleive one of these should support your needs since it has role based access control as well. Free hosting as well. Checm them out.
http://www.assembla.com/
http://trac.edgewall.org/about
TheVad
Project Manager & Chief Editor| www.eve-bank.net
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ESEXB
EVE Securities and Exchange Bureau
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:53:00 -
[14]
I have decided to leave the ESEXB site as is and develop tools and additions as activity/participation increases. Hopefully posting invitations to join ESEXB in IPO threads will be seen as a gesture of goodwill to the entire community.
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Xabier
THE SORORITY
CODE RED ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2008.11.12 07:39:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Xabier on 12/11/2008 07:39:22
Out of curiosity as you are one of my bond holders will my operation feature on the site ;)
Xabiers Capital Bond #1
Xabiers Capital Bond #2
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CornerStoner
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Posted - 2008.11.12 12:40:00 -
[16]
I dont see why not as I receive dividends.
Added.
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Block Ukx
Block Ships and Ammunitions
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Posted - 2008.11.19 14:11:00 -
[17]
Could you add the BSAC Exchange to your ESEXB links page?
BSAC Exchange
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pQ4y6NTzk252ExXN4fDnnFw&gid=0
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