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How do you counter T3 ships in pvp?

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Lana Lanee Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.08 23:52:00 - [31] Originally by: Kala'Sindra Edited by: Kala''Sindra on 08/11/2008 23:50:23 Edited by: Kala''Sindra on 08/11/2008 23:49:54 Originally by: sg3s Originally by: Nikita Alterana the number mentioned was 3125 combination's per race, with 5 sections of five choices each per ship so 3125/25= 125, I think I'm doing something wrong, cause thats a LOT of new ships. You're doing it wrong... It has 5 interchangeable sections and ofcourse of each section there will be several versions having different traits, I believe I saw like 6-8 versions on a screenshot... so that would be your miscalculation, those 125 would just be the different parts that allow you to make the ships, per race. Nikita & sg3s your maths is wrong. If there are 5 sections per ship, and 5 possible section options, then there are 5^5 possible total combinations. 5^5 = 3125 Edit: My spelling was wrong IT'S GONNA BE ALMOST THE SAME THING. IMMAGINE THE COMBINATIONS WITH MODULES. NOW IMMAGINE WITH RIGS. NOW IMMAGINE WITH SHIP MODIFICATIONS. it's still gonna be balanced and it won't be THAT different. if a ship will look less fat it won't be another ship, just another version of ship x or y... IT IS not THE END!
Nicholas Barker Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.08 23:53:00 - [32] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn People will throw ships at these without knowing how to counter them. It's a strange gameplay decision... in the beginning, people will learn what all the different stuff does eventually. can pretty much name any ship and i can tell you how it'll be fitted roughly and how it's likely to perform. will just take a little longer, and the first guys to get these who are smart enough to know what their strengths and weaknesses are will have a ball, or get totally ganked. new and unusual stuff is interesting, and frightening, adds more flavour ;) --------- I JUST FOUND THE GAME!
Darth Sith Industrials Gone Wild Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.11.08 23:54:00 - [33] I call dibs on naming my first T3 bastardized class of ship "ROFLCOPTERWTFPWNMOBILE" It will be blue and purple and have brass poles installed throughout the hull specifically to address ship based embulation when CCP makes that available too :) On serious note, I think the concept is great and the unpredictability will be welcome, it is the execution of how players will get the parts and how this will effect existing t1 / t2 production that will dictate wether it is "good or bad" to be included. In my view, having T3 as a replacement or addition to faction ships would be awesome. Having them become the new T2 in quantity would be a mess. Faction type rarity would make them an exellent item for older players who have 'tried everything" .
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.11.08 23:58:00 - [34] Show Info will be your best friend. ---------------------------
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:07:00 - [35] I hear mining lasers can be used to cut tech III ships apart. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Winterblink Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:07:00 - [36] All of this leads to the ship itself being a double-edged sword, really. My prediction is, the balance of the whole concept is that you will probably only excel at a specific task, and be totally pathetic at anything else. Making a ship that's more general purpose will cause it to be less than other classes of T1 and T2 ships. That's just my own guess of course. Tournaments are going to get awfully interesting, I bet :) warp drive active \| nature vraie
Rramar Claime Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:09:00 - [37] Triple DD blob? "I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes."
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:12:00 - [38] Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 09/11/2008 00:11:51 Perhaps a few people will consider fitting ship scanners to easily identify the specialization of customized ships _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:19:00 - [39] Originally by: Nicholas Barker Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn People will throw ships at these without knowing how to counter them. It's a strange gameplay decision... in the beginning, people will learn what all the different stuff does eventually. can pretty much name any ship and i can tell you how it'll be fitted roughly and how it's likely to perform. Well, yeah - but you also often get ***ed when you run into someone skilled and thinking out of the box. Most setups will be, of course, cookie-cutter fits - stuff that someone said on the forums was good, was generally approved, and people fly with it. It can mess you up and get you killed (solo, individual ship performance typically means fck all in gangs) - particularly vs ships which have versatile fitting options. Think about the following situation - you're in a Hurricane (plate/gank fit for instance), scan a Myrmidon. There's three/four realistic options (on TQ). It might be a dual-rep Myrmidon with blasters or ACs. Ok, no big deal, you can burn down its tank with Hail M before you die if you've got slaves. It might be a triple rep Myrmidon with small guns of some sort. This means you're ***ed if you go for a point blank face-melting approach, because it can handily tank everything you throw at it (including some battleships with a exile booster) while doing some quite decent DPS. It might be a blaster-gank fit with shield buffer with 850+ DPS which is going to absolutely melt your face in a horrible way when you come close. ... so assuming it's cookie cutter and going for the correct approach vs cookie cutter is going to get you horribly* slaughtered if you prove to be wrong (admittedly, it is one horribly versatile ship). Which is one of the interesting parts about EVE - but still, you do know its rough capabilities. There is a handful of awesome fits for the ship - you know you're not going to warp in only to find yourself vs a, say, ECM bonused ship which will permajam you and kill you slowly. So on one hand we have some certainity - as you know the ship bonuses and you know what it is generally capable of - but also with uncertainity regarding actual fit which can make a world of difference. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:21:00 - [40] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/11/2008 00:21:26 Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 09/11/2008 00:11:51 Perhaps a few people will consider fitting ship scanners to easily identify the specialization of customized ships No, you'll just make armour tanked droneboats with ECM str bonuses and not care. Seriously, lol. If you need to take ship scanners, and given you already have a huge midslot problem post SISI for PVP, why not just outblob or avoid combat? Wins every time. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Lord Zoran House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:24:00 - [41] everything dies, if you have enough lazors
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:26:00 - [42] give it 2 months, then people will adapt XD Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:26:00 - [43] Originally by: Kala'Sindra If there are 5 sections per ship, and 5 possible section options, then there are 5^5 possible total combinations. 5^5 = 3125 And with the typical eve balance maybe 5-10 of those will be good enough to justify the cost.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Cpt Branko No, you'll just make armour tanked droneboats with ECM str bonuses and not care. Seriously, lol. If you need to take ship scanners, and given you already have a huge midslot problem post SISI for PVP, why not just outblob or avoid combat? Wins every time. The return of the nosdomi! Whee! _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Zaknussem Caldari The Ironbreakers	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:39:00 - [45] Everyone PUT DOWN THE CRYSTAL BALL NOW. As is, if you want to kill T3 ships, you're just gonna have to memorize every possible configuration. 4 times, for each Empire faction. Can I watch when your brains melt out through your nose?
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.09 01:00:00 - [46] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Cpt Branko No, you'll just make armour tanked droneboats with ECM str bonuses and not care. Seriously, lol. If you need to take ship scanners, and given you already have a huge midslot problem post SISI for PVP, why not just outblob or avoid combat? Wins every time. The return of the nosdomi! Whee! Omg! The nosdomi, it's back! Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2008.11.09 01:08:00 - [47] Edited by: Dex Nederland on 09/11/2008 01:08:53 Originally by: Cpt Branko No, you'll just make armour tanked droneboats with ECM str bonuses and not care. Simple solution, you have to use a Caldari hull for ECM str Bonus. Caldari hull forces you to shield tank. The large drone bay reduces your number of mid slots, making ECM ineffective. T3 will still be racially themed, although we will probably see specialized ships that are not common to the race fx Caldari Drone BS. Winterblink makes an excellent point that there will be T3 ships that are awesome at one thing, but a T2 ship setup to counter it will ruin its day. I suspect T3 'generalist' ships will be a bit better than a T1 counterpart. Founder Heiian Society
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.11.09 13:17:00 - [48] Edited by: Tippia on 09/11/2008 13:18:18 Originally by: Lana Lanee IT'S GONNA BE ALMOST THE SAME THING. IMMAGINE THE COMBINATIONS WITH MODULES. NOW IMMAGINE WITH RIGS. NOW IMMAGINE WITH SHIP MODIFICATIONS. Modules and rigs don't give you extra slots and don't modify your base attributes. As for the question "how do you counter it?", it depends on what you mean by counter. Do you want to know what it does and what its weak spots are? Fit a scanner. Do you want to kill it? I've heard that guns, drones and missiles will help…
sg3s Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.09 13:33:00 - [49] Originally by: Kala'Sindra Edited by: Kala''Sindra on 08/11/2008 23:50:23 Edited by: Kala''Sindra on 08/11/2008 23:49:54 Originally by: sg3s Originally by: Nikita Alterana the number mentioned was 3125 combination's per race, with 5 sections of five choices each per ship so 3125/25= 125, I think I'm doing something wrong, cause thats a LOT of new ships. You're doing it wrong... It has 5 interchangeable sections and ofcourse of each section there will be several versions having different traits, I believe I saw like 6-8 versions on a screenshot... so that would be your miscalculation, those 125 would just be the different parts that allow you to make the ships, per race. I realised this shortly after posting but meh... effort. Nikita & sg3s your maths is wrong. If there are 5 sections per ship, and 5 possible section options, then there are 5^5 possible total combinations. 5^5 = 3125 Edit: My spelling was wrong It's about time I put something sensible in here, but I couldn't really come up with something so you'l have to do with this. Are you like really bored, or did you not notice this is my sig?
TimGascoigne The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.11.09 13:37:00 - [50] T3 is not over powered. All we need to do is release T4 and if T4 gets out of hand then unleash the T5. speaking a little bit more productively for a second (gasp)I don't really see the point of T3 then to give noobs justification is saying that the mountains to scale in this game are unreasonably steep. With the introduction of T2 BS and T2 freighters I think we have plenty of advanced ships and I don't see the purpose in having additional. If it is possible to constantly elevate to more ober ships then you will eventually end up with a large population in game that cannot be matched by young players for a ridiculously long period of time.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2008.11.09 13:57:00 - [51] Originally by: TimGascoigne T3 is not over powered. All we need to do is release T4 and if T4 gets out of hand then unleash the T5. speaking a little bit more productively for a second (gasp)I don't really see the point of T3 then to give noobs justification is saying that the mountains to scale in this game are unreasonably steep. With the introduction of T2 BS and T2 freighters I think we have plenty of advanced ships and I don't see the purpose in having additional. If it is possible to constantly elevate to more ober ships then you will eventually end up with a large population in game that cannot be matched by young players for a ridiculously long period of time. I remember seeing someone from CCP saying that it would not be just better, but different. I don't think he meant just the building ships from different components part. They might not require T2 ship skills to fly, so new players don't have to train any longer to get to fly T3 ships than T2 ships. Creating alternative training paths instead of just deepening the current ones. And until we see some actual stats, prices and mechanics it's a bit early to say they even replace T1 or T2 in other than in some very specific situations and roles.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.11.09 15:06:00 - [52] Originally by: Roy Batty68 1) What the hell is the scanner going to return for ship type? To answer my own question, I predict them doing something like this: Each variety of hull will have a base unit it's built off of. So for Caldari it might go something like this for cruiser sized hulls; Harrier - Missile focused Owl - Sensors / ECM focused Kite - Agility focused, split weapon Albatross - Industry something something Goshawk - Speedy (for caldari) rail focused Then the rest of the legos tweek the hull one way or another. More cargo space for less tank, etc. So in essence just five new ships of the class when it comes to what the scanner reports. OR They could do something totally unimaginitive dev like, and call it out has CaldariCruiser22351. Then you have to remember which position is the important one like second digit indicates it's primary purpose, digit four it's tank properties, etc. CCP wouldn't do that though. or would they? ----
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2008.11.09 15:27:00 - [53] An additional reason to create T3 is that industrial corps will be able to create 'unique' products and sell them via storefronts. A LDIS Pelican might be a Caldari Drone Cruiser which is slightly different than say the MM Caldari Drone Cruiser. LDIS's might be a bit cheaper, but less effective than the MM type (say sensor components are different and that takes a lot of something LDIS has a limited supply of). So T3 is about more than just the PewPew; it also provides variety in manufacturing and the market - that whole industrial complex that keeps the pewpewers shooting at each other. Founder Heiian Society
jst tstng	Posted - 2008.11.09 15:45:00 - [54] First T3 == Awasome Thx ccp for ops question: you look at it As I understand it, you put different modules on and the look changes
Adaera	Posted - 2008.11.09 15:46:00 - [55] Originally by: Illwill Bill Warp core stabilizers. Lots of them. Not if my heavy interdictor Ibis has anything to say about it!
Illwill Bill Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.11.09 15:48:00 - [56] Originally by: Adaera Originally by: Illwill Bill Warp core stabilizers. Lots of them. Not if my heavy interdictor Ibis has anything to say about it! WIN!
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden	Posted - 2008.11.09 15:50:00 - [57] Originally by: Roy Batty68 Originally by: Stigmatias Any opinions? 1) What the hell is the scanner going to return for ship type? Name Type Frankenstein VexStabExeqCaraOmen 2) Guess we'll have to zoom cameras in for a change to have a look at the bits? "Ah, he has the phat-azz backend so he can probably scoot pretty fast. His midsection is pretty small which means less mid slots... armor tanker? Front end has all those antenna and pointy things, which means ewar is likely. No foredeck area to speak of, so drones are very limited to none". Maybe? 3) They will probably NOT allow us to mix and match between racial lego parts, keeping things limited to the current overall racial flavors. @ point 2 : Great. I though "breaking the blobs" were their motto. It means we'll have fleets of T3 ships which purposes will be unkown --> ppl will try to outblob the blob Fetchez la vache !
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.11.09 16:56:00 - [58] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn @ point 2 : Great. I though "breaking the blobs" were their motto. It means we'll have fleets of T3 ships which purposes will be unkown --> ppl will try to outblob the blob Well, it's all just conjecture anyway. None of us really know anything besides they are thinking of giving us lego ships with five choices for five sections of the ship. They were also thinking of giving us storefront whatever the hecks this tuesday. That didn't pan out (yet?). So, I'll believe it when I see it in patch notes. But playing forum crystal ball is slightly amusing, so... /shrug ----
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.09 17:18:00 - [59] Originally by: Stigmatias In this day and age with T1 and T2's defined ship types and classes you pretty much know what your up against and use that information to construct a way to defeat the ship. But how are we going to be able to even know what it is that we are fighting? Could this thing have the capabilities to launch 5 Ogre 2s or have 7 medium lasers? At least now you know that these are the fittings of a domi and harbinger. I'm not saying T3 is a bad idea, far from it. But there's gotta be a streamline way to determine what a ship does. Any opinions? How do you shoot down anything in PvP? That harbinger might be fitting small guns! Like any system, its going to produce a small set of optimal setups for various things. These setups are going to be broadcast to the rest of us in the form of visual identification as well as simply the type of gang they are flying with. Even if they aren't easily identifiable they are going to be following a set of expectations which can be narrowed down quickly as the battle progresses.
Cozmik R5 Minmatar Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate	Posted - 2008.11.09 18:18:00 - [60] With that much ship building possibility, I'm sure there will be a new abundance of fail-fits and fail-mails. Can't wait to see 'em :D ____________________ Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.

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