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wth did you do to my missiles?

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Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:15:00 - [1] Originally by: Raigir Edited by: Raigir on 12/11/2008 03:02:11 Missles are already getting some bad dps at times than compared to some turrents. Why nerf them further. They need more of a buff just to keep up with turrents. Sure blasters are very limited in range but pack a crap load of dps and sure missles are more versitle and have no such thing as tracking.(maybe explo velocity and sig radius) But what good is it if it can't do squat to anything. The reason I switched to guns early on is because missiles sucked. That was before all of this. Missiles, except for torpedoes after a certain expansion, have always sucked. They hit for less DPS, they take too long to arrive at their target, they are easily avoided or outrun...so on and so forth. They were only really useful in PvE, or special circumstances. Guns were almost always better. Obviously, this led CCP to decide that they were far too useful.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:35:00 - [2] Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 03:35:57 Originally by: Demonic Sentiment Originally by: Anonymous Troll Originally by: Demonic Sentiment umm.. when your weapons cant do enough dmg to break a frigs tank.. come back and talk to me about whining... I think you need to train more skills and check your ship setup. Either that or you are terrible and should quit Eve. have u tried to use heavy missiles on a cerb yet? not like i can use hams.. now that there range has been nerfed to **** Also, fitting HAMS on a Cerb is pretty much suicide by stupidity, since they die so easily.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:39:00 - [3] Originally by: Megan Maynard Lawl. Seriously, I love all the crying from people who really haven't tried this patch out at all yet. Have you ever actually flown a Cerberus in combat? For that matter, have you used Caldari ships for anything besides ratting?
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:42:00 - [4] Originally by: Demonic Sentiment explain.. the cerb gets a descent range bonus so u could shot em out to a decent range.. and get some actual dps Simple. Cerberus has very weak shields and can't nano effectively, especially now. It either needs its mids to hold a target down (if using HAMS), or is better employed sniping at range. If you are going to go up close, use a Drake or a Caracal. At least the Drake is insurable. The whole role of the Cerb was as a sniping ship. using it up close is throwing good ISK after bad.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:46:00 - [5] Originally by: HankMurphy i'm going to go out on a limb here and say it wasn't mission runners that did that. it was incompetent pvpers No kidding. I just never saw the need to argue for more than a reduction to HAC speeds. I don't understand why it was necessary to re-invent the wheel, and less why the new wheel should be a square.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Bohoba Originally by: Dirk Magnum I dunno if Bohoba is EBay'd or bought legitimately, but the fact that at 70 million SPs his owner is ready to biomass and start fresh with Amarr instead of cross-training just SCREAMS purchased character. The inanity of it all makes me want to think EBay'd character but I'd hate to accuse someone openly of that nope ccp can confirm OEM here :) almost 5 years of cald. sp training adapting after nerf after nerf after nerf for 12 straight patches. easier to train a noob up rather than look at all them wasted skill points.... I am adapting all new :) well if I can get the game to work patch didn't take lol had to head to work so somthing to do when I get off work I still wouldn't do that. The shield skills aren't wasted, even if you armor tank (they give you a significant edge), and the learning skills sure aren't.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:48:00 - [7] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/11/2008 03:47:02 Originally by: Mattk50 oh, so gallente get to keep their drones, but we lose the advantage our missels give us huh? this is crap. gallente should have bad dps period but their drones should make up for it. Well, now turret tracking has been nerfed by 400% in webrange, what do you want? Free lunch? It's not like they didn't nerf medium drones too. And I honestly don't understand the logic behind that.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: Vikarion Originally by: Megan Maynard Lawl. Seriously, I love all the crying from people who really haven't tried this patch out at all yet. Have you ever actually flown a Cerberus in combat? For that matter, have you used Caldari ships for anything besides ratting? I've fought my fair share with the current patch and know you are all full of crap. Missiles hit for good damage against a MWD'ing pilot unless that missile is in a class above the ship. IE: cruises against cruisers. Even still they hit well as a MWD'ing pilot's sig will be HUGE. The bigger the sig the harder they fall. And I use missiles on all my ships and no they are not caldari. You aren't the only ones who use them after all. In addition, the cerb is now faster, can hit any ship fit with a MWD pretty damn well, and with the addition of a target painter can make a AB'ing ships life miserable. I think you missed the part where: 1. They don't hit anyone else nearly as hard. 2. The Cerb isn't THAT much faster. 3. An AB reduces already reduced DPS further. 4. You don't fly the Cerb., so your opinions about it aren't really relevant, are they, unless you can state numbers. With the reduction to the effectiveness of many missiles' sniping abilities (precision, anyone?) why not just use a Drake?
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 04:03:00 - [9] Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 04:03:21 Originally by: Nifan Originally by: Allora Lyn Amarr, train'em what? i just lost a paladin All battleships have been nerfed. Not really worth it to fly them except in fleet fights now, IMO. Unless you have gangmates and drones. EDIT: Agility, speed, ability to hit, drones, etc.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 04:11:00 - [10] Originally by: Cpt Branko That's because Caldari don't know jack about game mechanics. No, it's because it was a stupid decision. And I have about 15 million SP in Amarr, about 1.8 in Caldari. What does that tell you?
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 04:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Pedro Snachez 1. Use drones. Kronos drone bay: 125 m3 Raven drone bay: 75 m3 Originally by: Pedro Snachez 2. Use Target painters. Shield tank. Originally by: Pedro Snachez 3. Go a little lighter on the unnecessary perma-run booster setups. That's a Dominix you're thinking of. Ravens don't perma-tank well without really expensive dead-space/officer gear. Originally by: Pedro Snachez 4. Profit. Not anymore. Originally by: Pedro Snachez Sorry you can't do missions on braindead afk mode anymore. Again, you are thinking of a Dominix. In a Raven, it's literally impossible to AFK mission. Someone has to fire the missiles.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 04:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/11/2008 04:14:47 Originally by: Vikarion Originally by: Cpt Branko That's because Caldari don't know jack about game mechanics. No, it's because it was a stupid decision. And I have about 15 million SP in Amarr, about 1.8 in Caldari. What does that tell you? You know how badly Amarr with 1.8M SP suck? Oh, wait you want easymode without any SP, or fitting challenges? Ohwait. That said, the patch, as a whole, sucks. But pretending like missiles are the broken thing is laughable. You're missing the point. I don't have a huge personal stake in this, and it's my opinion that the whole system is now practically destroyed.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 04:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Vikarion Kronos drone bay: 125 m3 Raven drone bay: 75 m3 Turns out five light drones only take up 25m3. Which conveniently leaves 50m3 for a flight of five medium drones. It's amazing how that works. Did you read the patch notes? Drones got nerfed. And, unless you're packing drone links, good luck getting Guristas to get close enough to hit. Also, many players are complaining that their missiles aren't doing very much damage to BS, either.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 04:22:00 - [14] Originally by: GO MaZ I have a claymore. It goes 8k/sec with an oversized mwd on, after the patch. Cruise from a manticore STILL hit it for 200 a pop (even though they're too slow to catch it haha). I severely doubt they suck that ****ing bad against cruisers, and you should be using drones against frigs anyway. As with any major balancing patch, you have to work around the new issues that the balancing creates. Missile users have to find new ways of achieving the same damage, nano users have to find new ways of achieving the same damage avoidance / tanking ability. Adapt or die! Try using an AB. Should cut down that incoming damage a bit.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 04:30:00 - [15] Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn OK, correct me if im wrong, But they nerfed missles so you do less damage to speeding ships( speed tanks) but they nerfed ship speeds so you could actually hit them with missles. This is how i am understanding it. So they nerfed one thing( speed tanking) so missles were useable against speed tanks( amoung other reasons) then they nerfed missles so speed tanking was once again viable tanking for missles. So in short the actual change is they ****ed twice as many people off yet everything in a fight will play out exactly the same way between a missleboat and speed tank.... It's a little more complex than that... Missiles were generally nerfed - less DPS, less ability to hit smaller ships. MWDs were nerfed. Missiles are still good against MWD-using ships. Net result? Missiles suck against anything not using an MWD or a size catergory larger (in which case they still suck, because they don't do enough DPS).
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 04:58:00 - [16] Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 04:59:34 Originally by: Aeo IV And again, I don't care, all I know is somehow between Nanos broken, and Nanos fixed, someone broke my Raven. And my Abaddon. And my SB. And probably a good host of other things I haven't realized. This. THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS. Why should everything I enjoy flying be penalized because I didn't pay much attention to what other players were politicking about? Oh, right, because CCP uses a sledgehammer to swat gnats.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 05:02:00 - [17] Originally by: Khamal Jolstien Yes. It's also true that players feel they shouldnt pay for the right to do QA's job on SiSi just so they'll have a working game. QA should have done their job, balancing should have done their job. They failed. Come to think of it, they seem to fail a rather large percentage of the time. See, here I understood the Nano-nerf to be a mild scaling-down of MWD speeds and snake bonuses. Somehow that morphed into a draconian campaign against all speed mods, battleship tracking, drones, and missiles. I think I can be forgiven for being unpleasantly surprised.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 07:43:00 - [18] Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 07:43:39 Originally by: apock21 Originally by: Vikarion Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 04:59:34 Originally by: Aeo IV And again, I don't care, all I know is somehow between Nanos broken, and Nanos fixed, someone broke my Raven. And my Abaddon. And my SB. And probably a good host of other things I haven't realized. This. THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS. Why should everything I enjoy flying be penalized because I didn't pay much attention to what other players were politicking about? Oh, right, because CCP uses a sledgehammer to swat gnats. THIS made me chuckle. Completely correct, this patch was an absolute epic fail. I love how half the people screaming "adapt or die" dont use ravens. Its funny to think that a ship type can influence the market, however i predict inflated prices on everything for the next couple of months, until they fix the patch or mission runners cross train a competent level 4 boat. I have no interest in saving up for a golem and spending 1bil plus to run missions, and I doubt very many other people will either. I'm not even majorly specced for Caldari. I fly Amarr. I'm unhappy about EVERY large ship getting nerfed. -400% close range tracking is bad. Very bad. That missiles are worth less than the pixels they use is also bad. But frankly, I'm more concerned about the fact that battleships have basically been turned into miniature capital ships - unable to hit anything, too slow to be dangerous, and generally about as fun to fly as scrubbing your dishes. Apparently the only people who deserve to have fun in Eve are those who fly cruisers or smaller. What really bugs me is that I keep almost quitting, then I find something fun to do, and then CCP nerfs it.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 07:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Lucas Avignon It sounds like CCP didn't nerf them enough, turret bs's can't hit frigates, why should cruise ravens? Maybe because it's the only thing that cruise missiles are good for? Oops...were good for.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 08:01:00 - [20] Originally by: Muad' Dib Your post is very badly thought, the fact that i said 'the solo bs', could mean anything from mission runner to pvp-er, but i guess this never crossed your mind. Solo BS PvPers needed a nerf like low-sec needs a nerf.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 08:14:00 - [21] Originally by: Lexx Phoebus Originally by: Vikarion Originally by: Muad' Dib Your post is very badly thought, the fact that i said 'the solo bs', could mean anything from mission runner to pvp-er, but i guess this never crossed your mind. Solo BS PvPers needed a nerf like low-sec needs a nerf. solo bs pvpers need a nerf? My god you are stupid - do you have any idea how hard it is to solo and even break even these days? Especially in a BS. I weep for the human race. ... It's called sarcasm. Low-sec badly needs a buff. Solo-PvP needs a buff. Neither needed a nerf.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 08:16:00 - [22] I guess there is such a thing as being too subtle.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 08:20:00 - [23] Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 08:20:18 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Dirtee Girl um wait there was this great quote that kept comming up what was it ....? oh yeah adapt or die right ? I seem to remember a few mission runners saying something along those lines on this forum yes... It's relatively easy for the mission-runners to adapt to this. The effect it is going to have on PvP and PvPing BS pilots will be pretty nasty. Oh, and I don't see Caldari PvP pilots being really happy either.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 08:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Malcanis Hey, it would have been even easier for these people to have warped to 0Km but they still whined and cried and wailed for suicide gank nerfs. Asking them to fit a module as well - that's way over the line, mister. You're insane, why would anyone do that when they can just cancel their account? Beats me. Still, I think in the whining over missiles, everyone is missing the fact that CCP JUST PUT ANOTHER NAIL IN THE COFFIN OF SOLO PVP! Oh, and that they effectively ruined another weapons system, nerfed a whole class of ships, and etc. All because HACs were too fast.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.12 08:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Oftherocks So yeah, missile users are screwed.... time to train rails or lasers. Now that webs have been nerfed, you'll be lucky to hit a battleship with guns.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.14 01:29:00 - [26] Originally by: Blastil You realize that the entire reason why Nanos were made were to KITE missles right? Right? Why would you create a counter to a threat that is NON-EXISTANT? Short answer: you DON'T. WTF missle pwn blobs were the mainstays of EVERY 0.0 alliance before trinity and empyrian age when the finally started nerfing the things. Why are they still popular? BECAUSE THEY WERE SO DAMN FLEXIBLE. And weren't half bad too boot. Fail Post is Fail. This is, frankly, bull. Nano's were used because they had the ability to escape all damage, and escape dangerous situations. Missiles were far less effective than guns against nanos, because guns could still hit a nano approaching straight on - missiles would hit for truly pathetic amounts of damage. Also, stating that missile ships were the core of 0.0 operations before Trinity isn't just wrong, it's so insane and stupid that I don't think anyone can ever trust another one of your posts again. Missile ships have never been considered good for PvP in fleets, and only rarely in gangs - mostly for the torp raven. They simply do far less damage, and take too long to hit. That's why I stopped training Caldari ships - except for the Falcon, they're almost always sub-par for PvP. As for your vaunted "flexibility", what's the point of having different damage types when everyone omni-tanks? And when it takes 10 seconds in perfect conditions to load a different type of missile? FoFs? Please. No one even packs them, because they do so little DPS and are worthless. "Always hit?"...sure, for pathetic damage - and that was before the patch. Whatever you want to think about the patch, the facts are that missiles sucked for PvP before, much less now.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:58:00 - [27] Originally by: Kransthow adapt or die Shut up, spammer.

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