EVE Search - Is it just me, or the "certificates" are a bit too generic?

All Channels

Skill Discussions

Is it just me, or the "certificates" are a bit too generic?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.11.12 02:48:00 - [1] What I mean is this.... Why in order for a player to be "ELITE" at something, he has to be specialized in ALL 4 Races? Isn't EVE the game of specialization? The 'CORE Certificates' for example, require specialization in all 4 races in order to show as "Elite" - and if one, god forbid, is only specialized in just two, or even worse, one, then it shows as 'BASIC.' I was hoping for CCP to put more thought into this, and I for one was very excited about the idea of certificates. Now, that I am actually looking at them, they are just a gimmick! Something that would confuse the new players even more, because they will think they need to train ALL races in order to have an "ELITE" certificate. Some rethinking is required, I think that certificates should be made racial, and not generic. I think they should focus on compartmentalization, and quality, rather than sweeping quantities of crap they tried to fit into it. I am a bit disappointed. I have allot of "BASIC" and "STANDARD" Certificates, even though I am narrowly specialized in 3 races Small-Medium Ships/Guns. Oh, and I am at 60 Mill SP now... CCP, this has been a huge Pig @#$%K guys, you need to rework the system to reflect specialization, and not generalize. ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
Avalira Caldari Tau Ceti Green Card Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:01:00 - [2] From reading a dev reply it seems that they don't have much freedom in what certificates they can create. Their tools cannot use IF... or something like that. In other words: limited base programming means limited certificate options. I know, it's silly to put it this way but unfortunately CCP didn't go the full length in having really well-thought out certificates. Some are missing too, for instance I have maximum jump skills yet no certificate in them. My gunnery skills are all level 5 except for specialization skills yet I only have "standard" certificates in gunnery. Level 5 in the specialization is required to get improved... which is silly imo as it is the last thing you train when everything else is at level 5. Anyways I could go on and on with other certificates, but I think what would help is if we compile a list of problematic certificates and tell CCP what is wrong. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Its been fixed. All in all its one of the more embarrassing mistakes I made, but it made game design laugh. Now lets never speak of this again.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:12:00 - [3] Yeah I feel ashamed to only have 2 Elites and loads of basics and standards.
General Sadistis Minmatar Isk Fiends	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:15:00 - [4] Edited by: General Sadistis on 12/11/2008 03:15:27 heres an idea leave them private lol u can only show the elite ones if u want but i know me personally idont want to show people what skills i got that gives them the advantage over me in combat knowing what i am capible of and likewize i think this perticular feature was a bad idea .: Brits Have No Sence Of Humor :.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.12 05:44:00 - [5] caps are missing too. .. my carrier 5 is totally wasted according to the system - which would be a problem if I cared - forr now they stay private. And because I only fly Amarr - Elite is out of reach for most things. . .yet I have 57 mil sp all combat. . .go figure. ----
Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.11.12 06:43:00 - [6] I have all of my uber mining skills displayed.. maybe someone will attack me? Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.11.12 07:03:00 - [7] "Passive Shield Tanking - BASIC" No comment _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.12 07:41:00 - [8] Edited by: Pottsey on 12/11/2008 07:42:03 Its crazy 90mill skillpoints and maxed out at passive shield tanking yet I am not an Elite passive tanker. In fact it says I am just as good at active amour and shield tanking as I am at passive which is a load of rubbish. 11 million in drones with max lvl 5 specialization, yet only a standard drone pilot. 12mill in gunny all lvl 5 includeing specialization in the weapons I use and its standard, standard, standard. EDIT: Elite hull tanker, perhaps I should swap from passive to hull tanking. Certs make it look better. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.11.12 09:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Feng Schui I have all of my uber mining skills displayed.. maybe someone will attack me? I sense a new form of trapping in the making Diary of a pod pilot
RedeyeAce Caldari Demogorgon's Army	Posted - 2008.11.12 18:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 12/11/2008 07:42:03 EDIT: Elite hull tanker, perhaps I should swap from passive to hull tanking. Certs make it look better. Yeh i had already spotted the hull tanking Elite :), one of the only skills im actually showing for the stoopid factor
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:13:00 - [11] I agree. Certificates are kind of messed up. I was sure I'd have nice drone certs, since I have most drone skills maxed out (but only Gallente specialization), but nope, I only have standard. I also have armor tanking pretty much maxed out, but only standard in that also. It looks like basic and standard are fine, and would be useful for recruiting or giving newbies a guide, but beyond standard most of them get kind of silly in their requirements. Oh well, they're still cool. I can see myself wanting to collect them. Plus they also help me find skills I've let fall behind that are still helpful.
Patrice Macmahon Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:28:00 - [12] I for one like the cert system. It points out the missing 'gaps' in your skill tree and looking them over, when I start moving towards those certifications Ill have a better overall character. The certs seem to based on overall synergy principals. When you combine certain skill levels and modules, you get solid results. Thats what I think they are for. The system is aimed at new players to show what one would need to be able to be competent at a specific level. The advanced player certificates are in the works (thats what they said in the dev blog, that more were comming). It is a great start. Needs some work and tweaking, but it is a solid sytem. The Intakis have an obligatin to defend the Federation, but not to assult others on its behalf.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Patrice Macmahon The certs seem to based on overall synergy principals. When you combine certain skill levels and modules, you get solid results. Thats what I think they are for. The system is aimed at new players to show what one would need to be able to be competent at a specific level. Except, as noted above, that synergistic concept fails dramatically in execution once a mite of realism is added to the equation. ----
LC Sulla Caldari House Mekarae	Posted - 2008.11.12 21:19:00 - [14] Yeah. I've got pretty heavy shield skills but only get 'standard' certs. My personal favourite is Improved 'Active Shield Tanking' requires 'Shield Reinforcement' which requires all types of Compensation... These have nothing to do with ACTIVE tanking because you only get the bonuses to your hardners are turned off!! lol... ------------------
Jelosavich	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:27:00 - [15] Originally by: LC Sulla Yeah. I've got pretty heavy shield skills but only get 'standard' certs. My personal favourite is Improved 'Active Shield Tanking' requires 'Shield Reinforcement' which requires all types of Compensation... These have nothing to do with ACTIVE tanking because you only get the bonuses to your hardners are turned off!! lol... What makes you think "active tanking" doesn't include shield boosters with passive hardeners? I know a lot of "active armor tanks" use passive resist modules. (Of course that's because our omni is passive)
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:32:00 - [16] What about the refinery manager (basic) which requires Refinery Efficiency 1, but Scrap Metal Processing 2? Scrap Metal Processing requires Metallurgy 5! You'd be better served boosting Refinery Efficiency to 5 before even starting on Metallurgy, if the only reason you wanted Metallurgy was to satisfy the prerequisite for Scrap Metal Processing. IMHO, most people would be better served with Refinery Efficiency 4 and the 4% waste reduction implant, before they start training Metallurgy. Sure, it's only a week or so training, but that time could be invested in RE5 for returns on all refining. Yes, the 4% reduction implant requires Cybernetics 5, my feeling is that Cybernetics 5 is far more useful than Scrapmetal Processing 1.
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:43:00 - [17] Edited by: Mara Rinn on 12/11/2008 22:44:57 Originally by: Patrice Macmahon The certs seem to based on overall synergy principals. When you combine certain skill levels and modules, you get solid results. Thats what I think they are for. The system is aimed at new players to show what one would need to be able to be competent at a specific level. Being able to fly Amarr cruisers has no impact on one's ability to fly any other race cruiser (faction specials notwithstanding). Being specialised in Amarr drones doesn't impact upon your ability to launch a flight of terrifyingly powerful Gallente drones. Having EM/Thermic/Explosive/Kinetic Shield Compensation skills has no impact upon your active shield tanking capability. edit: Correction: apparently some folks use shield boosters with shield resistance amplifiers. I was under the impression that hardeners always give you better resistances, can someone set me straight on this? Being able to fly industrial ships has no impact on one's ability to make a profit through trade. Flying industrial ships implies that one is hauling, which is a different profession to trading. The tools that a trader needs to do their work come with the graduation certificate - you have a rookie ship with some cargo capacity. That's all you really need. These are not synergies, they are distractions. The certificates themselves appear to have been designed by people who haven't played the game. The certificate system is - in my opinion - a great idea to help neophytes get oriented in the game. It's just lacking a little in execution.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:51:00 - [18] The certs do need work. I laugh at the Elite Drone certs; I'm as specced in Drones as most people would find practical (I.E., Specs IV, EWAR IV, Durability IV, most everything else V) and I don't have a single Elite cert. I'll never get one either, you need all Specs to V as prereq for Elite Drone Control, which is needed for the rest of them. In that time I could have another race's BS V and T2 large guns. -------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
Kaatje Thaxathinadin	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:43:00 - [19] Edited by: Kaatje Thaxathinadin on 12/11/2008 23:43:13 Originally by: Avalira From reading a dev reply it seems that they don't have much freedom in what certificates they can create. Their tools cannot use IF... or something like that. In other words: limited base programming means limited certificate options. Since when can Python not use If statements?
Mrs Boffin	Posted - 2008.11.13 01:08:00 - [20] OK, so certs dont quite work yet We can bag them all we like, so why dont we offer some positive and useful criticism. I do believe if we say it in the right way CCP will listen. So what is OK: They exist They can be public or private They offer some guidance What is bad: elite may not be useful for elite skills in game, more an accolade than practical reflection some of the skill balance isn't in there (like scrap refining... my main is a better R&D industry pilot than combat, odd when you tank level 4's on your own...) Some skill paths are missing (gunnery) What is good: It's a positive step in the right direction (being recruited for low sec this could offer a big help) It can help give some guidance to new players Easy to manage and navigate So what would I like to see? Elite is more inline with elite players within the game itself (talk to the players and get better guides from them) better skill balance (refinement) linked to EVEmon Another switch added to the private/public option, certs can be viewed by corp members, or maybe e-mailed in game to prospective employers Its a positive start, lets make it better Lets use our knowledge to offer some positive advice What would you like to see done/fixed?
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.11.13 03:39:00 - [21] All I am saying is that they should be something like this: Caldari Command Ships Basic/Standard/Specialist Caldari HAC Basic/Standard/Specialist Hybrid Weaponry Basic/Standard/Specialist Laser Weaponry Basic/Standard/Specialist So on and so forth. The way Certifications stand now they are actually adding to the confusion a new player will experience upon first entering the game. They will need even more help in defining their roles within the game, and as such I am afraid this creates another barrier, especially for the introverted pilots, who would not necessarily find a group of people who can help them straight away, and will go full speed ahead generalizing their characters, rather than specializing them - only to discover that the supposedly helpful certificate system was rather misleading in its application. Needs work the way it stands now. Needs to be narrowed, and aimed at specific/racial specialization. Other than that, I still think the idea has great promise, too bad it came broken out of the box. ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.11.13 04:08:00 - [22] Multitasking Look at multitaskings significance in certs and your realize how whacked they are. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.11.13 05:45:00 - [23] A good example is that one needs shield management V for high-end armor tanking certificates. Core integrity is basically about having the maximum shield, armor and hull HP, which is probably a good thing, but it's required for armor tanking, which is slightly silly. Having the most shield HP possible isn't a bad thing even for an armor tanker (passive buffer HP are always good), it's just that if someone wanted to be a armor-tanking specialist, shield management probably wouldn't be high on their list of priorities.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:37:00 - [24] People with a clue wont give much on certificates be it for recruiting or own training, so it doesn't concern them and well, misguiding new players leads to more comedy killmails, I dont see the problem :P (ok, apart from the resources used to develop this "feature" not being applied to things that are really needed/useful but hey ...)
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Jurgen Cartis The certs do need work. I laugh at the Elite Drone certs; I'm as specced in Drones as most people would find practical (I.E., Specs IV, EWAR IV, Durability IV, most everything else V) and I don't have a single Elite cert. I'll never get one either, you need all Specs to V as prereq for Elite Drone Control, which is needed for the rest of them. In that time I could have another race's BS V and T2 large guns. Got to agree here. Certainly since Gallente and Minmattar drones pretty much are all you will be using. Diary of a pod pilot
Mashie Saldana Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:07:00 - [26] Originally by: Jinx Barker What I mean is this.... Why in order for a player to be "ELITE" at something, he has to be specialized in ALL 4 Races? Isn't EVE the game of specialization? Just specialize in Minmatar and you will have it all covered
Lockefox Caldari Darkmatter Conglomerate Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.13 15:42:00 - [27] I am with most of the whines out there as far as certificates. I think they are incredibly useful for newer players but a lot of the requirements are still way out of whack. Core targeting: Targeting 4 is good enough for 99% of cases, unless you're logistic. I understand why ELITE wants multitasking, but otherwise it's a waste of time/ Capital Certs? How many times do we see the post "what do I need to fly X capital?" I would like to see some expansion to cover capital trees as well. AND/OR in trees. Personally I'd like to see a 3 of 4 kind of requirement on some certs. Help get some of the more intermediate certs as a stepping point. That's my 2 isk. I like them, but they are going to drive me slightly crazy. With 45m sp and a Jack-of-all-trades mentality, I really want to have as many certs as I can get. I know that's like saying I want ALL the skills, but leave me to my crazy goals. ~Locke
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.13 16:15:00 - [28] Originally by: General Sadistis Edited by: General Sadistis on 12/11/2008 03:15:27 heres an idea leave them private lol u can only show the elite ones if u want but i know me personally idont want to show people what skills i got that gives them the advantage over me in combat knowing what i am capible of and likewize i think this perticular feature was a bad idea QFT... OR... you can do the Counter Intel thing and just show that you have COUNTLESS certs for industry and yet only TWO for combat ;). Then come out with a ton of different tricks that they didnt know you were capable of imo if they honsetly believe the cert system, they are going to get killed anyway >.>. Why not fool around with them a bit? =----------= Semper Fi

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.