Hey guys,

I've witnessed (via Youtube) 20 or so Rifters mobbing a carrier and within minutes podding it's pilot.

But the other racial frigates... nary a word is spoken about them. Do they genuinely suck, or have they fallen victim to "numbers optimization"?

If "mixed fleets" are a viable option, then what sort of frigate force would it take to overwhelm and destroy a lone pilot flying in, say, a Hurricane or a Vagabond at a gate camp?

Two examples of Rifter fits.

[Rifter, Passive shield tank, AB, no web]
Local Power Plant Manager: Reaction Shield Power Relay I
Local Power Plant Manager: Reaction Shield Power Relay I
Local Power Plant Manager: Reaction Shield Power Relay I

Medium Subordinate Screen Stabilizer I
Limited 1MN Afterburner I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

150mm Light Carbine Repeating Cannon I,Fusion S
150mm Light Carbine Repeating Cannon I,Fusion S
150mm Light Carbine Repeating Cannon I,Fusion S
Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher,Mjolnir Light Missile

Small Core Defense Field Purger I
Small Core Defense Field Purger I
Small Core Defense Field Purger I

In the following armor tanked fit, you could put a 400mm plate instead of the 200mm and replace the armor rep with a hardner or reactor control unit, and put some projectile weapon rigs instead of the meh ones here, which would probably be better for PvP, as tank hardly matters in fleet battles.

Also note that 200mm autocannons may also be fit.

With the 3-3 mid-low slots architecture, you can play around a lot with this ship's fitting.

[Rifter, Armor tank, MWD]
Damage Control I
Small I-a Polarized Armor Regenerator
200mm Reinforced Steel Plates I

Upgraded 1MN Microwarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I

150mm Light AutoCannon I,Fusion S
150mm Light AutoCannon I,Fusion S
150mm Light AutoCannon I,Fusion S
Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher,Nova Light Missile

Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I

I for one won't be in any standard tech 1 gallente frigates. Well, unless I want to haul something quickly. The incursus has only two low slots but three mid slots. The others are a bit blah. Now, the federation navy comet is certainly appealing. I'll fly it once I get gallente frigate five. Pirate frigates are amazing and tech 2 frigates seem to be godly and makes for a fantastic tackler of just about anything. I like the tough frigates, but not the simple tech 1 frigates. It doesn't take much more training to get into a much better frigate. Yes, there is pilot skill involved, but the ship makes a difference, too.

Besides Tank and DPS, Speed is an important element of t1 frig combat, it control who dictates the pace and range of combat and the Rifter being Minmatar, holds the natural advantage. However, since the Gallente hull buff, I have seen Incursus fits that are on par with Rifter speed/combat capabilities.

Alot depends on the pilot, but assuming all pilots are equal and all fits are correct, I would rate t1 frigs thusly:

1. Cookie Cutter Rifter - Pros: Fast, Versatile, Standard DPS Cons: Less Tank than most
2. Shield Kestrel - Pros: Highest DPS t1 Frigate, Solid buffer Tank, Rockets Cons: Lack of speed, Lack of Dictation
3. Railgun Incursus (scram range) - Pros: Fast, Good DPS, Good Range Cons: Tracking, Only 2 lows
4. Cookie Cutter Tristan - Pros: Versatile, Good DPS, Nice Tank Cons: Slow, Skill Intense, Can be Kited
5. Cookie Cutter Merlin - Pros: Versatile, Good DPS, Very Nice Tank Cons: Slow, Can be Kited
6. AC Punisher - Pros: Amazing Tank Cons: Less DPS than most, Slow, Only 2 Mids
7. Blaster Incursus - Pros: Good DPS Cons: Can by Kited, Only 2 Lows

If "mixed fleets" are a viable option, then what sort of frigate force would it take to overwhelm and destroy a lone pilot flying in, say, a Hurricane or a Vagabond at a gate camp?

Anyone have any ideas on what the fittings would be for them?

Goal: Take down a Vagabond or a Hurricane without letting them warp away

So I've been reading lately about how a certain now prominent alliance rose to power through the might of the Rifter. Chiefly, their pilots were all low SP with very little game experience, but they were able to overwhelming capital fleets with sheer numbers of cheaply fitted Rifters.

4. Cookie Cutter Tristan - Pros: Versatile, Good DPS, Nice Tank Cons: Slow, Skill Intense, Can be Kited

Anyone have any ideas on what the fittings would be for them?

Goal: Take down a Vagabond or a Hurricane without letting them warp away

Anyone have any ideas on what the fittings would be for them?

Goal: Take down a Vagabond or a Hurricane without letting them warp away

Neut tristan is more effective than any tristan that offers "good DPS"

It's difficult to say one frigate is better than another, because it depends on the circumstances. For instance, the best frigate for 1v1 frigate fights might be an MWD frigate with Warp Disruptor and Standard Missiles (eg. Kestrel or Breacher), whereas the best frigate for "real" PvP is probably going to be the Rifter even though in 1v1s they can be beaten, especially if they've fitted an MWD. In 1v1 you also have a scissors/paper/stone thing going on so there's no overall 100% winner as there is always a ship & fitting providing a counter to your ship & fitting.

Here's the T1 frig with the best overall dps and ehp.

[Merlin, Solo MSE]

Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I


114dps (Slightly higher than cookie Rifter)
10.4k ehp (More than double cookie Rifter!!)

Untested. I need to get myself some ISK and rejoin RVB.

The weakness of this fit is that it is slow and has no web. Could it even solo most other frigates, because of this?

I have flown that fit on my frigate alt with maxed skills. It cannot dictate range effectively. It is possible that the person I was fighting had gang booster bonuses, but he was able to kite me. He did the same to my Kestrel. When I fought him with my Rifter, he won with about 10% hull left (I think the gang booster probably made the difference for him here).

In my experience (not on this character), the key to success with a T1 AB frigate is what range the fight starts at. If you start inside web/scram range, just overheat your mods and pray. One of you is dying in under a minute. Outside that range, you're toast - unless you can hit effectively all the way out to 24km - in which case you can either fight at that range or warp out at will.

Hey guys,

So I've been reading lately about how a certain now prominent alliance rose to power through the might of the Rifter. Chiefly, their pilots were all low SP with very little game experience, but they were able to overwhelming capital fleets with sheer numbers of cheaply fitted Rifters. Volumes have been written on the beauty, power, and utility of the Rifter. I've witnessed (via Youtube) 20 or so Rifters mobbing a carrier and within minutes podding it's pilot.

But the other racial frigates... nary a word is spoken about them. Do they genuinely suck, or have they fallen victim to "numbers optimization"?

If "mixed fleets" are a viable option, then what sort of frigate force would it take to overwhelm and destroy a lone pilot flying in, say, a Hurricane or a Vagabond at a gate camp?

BUT - that doesn't mean that it's the only decent frigate for PvP. Not by a long shot. The kestrel, merlin, punisher and executioner are all excellent choices for T1 PvP frigates. I have never been fond of Gallente ships - thus, I don't know much about them - but I presume that there's at least one decent PvP frigate choice there.

[Merlin, New Setup 1]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Light Ion Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Gremlin Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I

I have been using this fit for great success. It mops up the floor with your usual Rifter and can be modified as you like it to be, exchange the MWD for AB for example or the web for an invufield for even more tank. With an anc router you can even exchange the auxiliary power core for a damage control. Has well over 100 DPS in all configurations and way more EHP than a Rifter. With Null ammo even quite enough range for a frig fight.

If you can't fit the above, just downgrade guns, this works only with perfect fitting skills and some implants.

Haven't tested the Gallente ones yet thoroughly but they seem to be good as well.

Meta 4 Medium Shield Extenders on a tech 1 frigate.

Seriously? You're going to spend 5 million isk on a module for a 300k isk hull?

Balmer Series Tracking Disruptors? Aren't those like 5 million isk too?

If you're going to use tech 2 and meta 4 mods, use a bloody tech 2 ship. It's not much more expensive but AT LEAST twice as powerful.

Why did this turn into a discussion of 1v1s? Not to be rude, but I'm asking about how a gang of newbies and semi-newbies with limited funds and skills can take what they can fly (Frigates, maybe some Cruisers) and take down a larger opponent - such as a Hurricane or a Vagabond or any of the other popular gankships.

I appreciate the input about how Hurricanes and Vagabonds are effective anti-frigate boats. This was helpful, important information that will help me decide how to proceed. "Merlin beats Rifter 1v1" is completely unhelpful, but thanks anyway.

Yea, true. Apologies for derailing the thread a bit.

This is the standard SAR Rifter:

[Rifter, New Setup 1]

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
Small Nosferatu II

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
[Empty Rig slot]

You can swap the T2 nos and mids out for meta 3/4 and not lose much effect if needed, but the T2 guns are a necessity -- 5-6 of these (flown by new but competent pilots) should be able to handle a single Cane with ease as long as you're communicating to manage CAP and maintain point while being neuted.

Really, the same applies for the any other T1 hull fit.

Step one: Get under guns (500m orbit at top speed).
Step two: Get point (web and scram).
Step three: Kill drones (most important thing to do before even firing on the Cane -- use web if you have to).
Step four: Kill Cane (from this point it's just managing his neuting).

Can you swap the armor repper out for a gryo and a webber for a tracking disruptor (at least on 1 or 2 of the frigates?)

You're right. Let's defer to your vast PvP knowledge. Please, share some more...I'm excited to see what else we can learn from you.

T2/Meta 4 fit rifter: 20 mil

T2/Meta 4 fit Wolf: 50 mil

And it's ******* 3 times as powerful as a Rifter. If you use expensive mods on a throwaway ship, you deserve to lose your money.

Here's the T1 frig with the best overall dps and ehp.

[Merlin, Solo MSE]

Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I


114dps (Slightly higher than cookie Rifter)
10.4k ehp (More than double cookie Rifter!!)

Untested. I need to get myself some ISK and rejoin RVB.

The weakness of this fit is that it is slow and has no web. Could it even solo most other frigates, because of this?

Keep dropping those gems. I can feel myself becoming a master of PvP just reading your wisdom.

You do realize that the difference between a cheap Rifter an an expensive Rifter is some 15 million + isk; and a mere 1000 tank/20 DPS, right?

Any Rifter fitted with more than 10 mil isk is a failfit. I bet you PVP in faction gear too.

In fleets, you can get away with cheaper fits, but don't expect to come out as a winner from 1vs1s with less than perfect fits. In frigate fights with extremely tight margins, every damage and hitpoint counts.

Says he who posts on his alt. Crawl back under your rock troll...

On the other hand, I'm learning so much about PvP from you...this really is a pickle.

This here is an example of someone who is mad that his 10 million fit on a 300 thousand isk hull was questioned, so he resorts to ad-hominem attacks.

Keep the fight alive, man. You're winning.

You keep repeating yourself. You know repetition is one of the signs of autism.

This here is an example of someone who is mad that his 10 million fit on a 300 thousand isk hull was questioned, so he resorts to ad-hominem attacks.

If you're going to use tech 2 and meta 4 mods, use a bloody tech 2 ship. It's not much more expensive but AT LEAST twice as powerful.

I'll drop an exorbitant 5mil if it helps me win a fight.

If a 15mil fit is breaking your wallet you can use a meta 3 MSE and keep it under 10mil; but pop 2 SAR Rifters in that Merlin and you've won the ISK war by 5mil.

You can drop the TD and save 4mil on your 12mil kiting Merlin too, and give up your tankless ship's only defence beside speed; but that's counterproductive to winning fights imo.

The "cookie cutter" Rifter comes in at around 10mil -- as do most decently fit solo T1 hulls. If you want to nitpick about 2-5 mil, I guess that's your prerogative. Meanwhile, I'll be throwing that 2-5 mil ISK at my T1 hulls to lavishly fit them for the purpose of winning fights.

Versus a standard MSE Rifter using Barrage this fit should theoretically pop the Rifter in 33.3s, weapons overheated whereas the Rifter would take 41.4s to pop the Merlin. However, the Rifter is still faster and could potentially pull range and escape if the pilot realized he was losing in time.

Rifters are like... 1/2 the power of a faction frigate or a t2 frigate but are 1/10 the price.

They've got enough mid-slots to have prop+full tackle
They've got good dps
They have an okayish tank
They have naturally good speed

The other T1 frigates all have some downfall that make them lousy. The Punisher can't fit prop+full tackle, for example, so nobody uses it since it can't catch anything. But a Punisher could kick a Rifter's ass if, for some reason, the rifter couldn't get away.

How would a MSE rifter outrun a merlin with web?

instead of going for rofters, i would pay slightly more and go for destroyers, Thrashers.

They can deal with frig class ships, including interceptors etc.

And honestly, a fitted Thrasher, with t1/meta 2-3 modules can come to 2.5-3 mil if you do good.

A fleet of 20 of these could easily overwhelm opponents.

For those of you arguing that committing ISK to a tech 1 frigate is a bad thing to do:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14007423

Say what you want, but the fact is, 1v1 with no links and no logi, no cheaply fitted Rifter can outperform a faction fit daredevil. However, commit ISK to the essential elements of the Rifters combat style, such as a cheap faction afterburner+rep combo, and there are suddenly no limits as to what you can take on 1v1.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14903768
This is how I fit my Rifter, alot of people may scoff and say what a waste of ISK, but the fact remains that ISK is mine to do as I please with, if I want to spend it on frigates and maintain a 12:1 Killboard efficiency, I will.
Flown correctly, a fit like this is more than a match for ships like Thrashers, Taranis, Jaguars, Dramiels, Daredevils and all of the Navy Faction Frigates. (1v1)

...and yeh, sorry to derail the thread with even more 1v1 talk, but people are raising an interesting argument as to whether one should commit ISK to a cheap hull. I say, if you can competently fly the hull and know how to capitalize on its advantages, there is no reason to not commit ISK to the ship.

Two examples of Rifter fits.

[Rifter, Passive shield tank, AB, no web]
Local Power Plant Manager: Reaction Shield Power Relay I
Local Power Plant Manager: Reaction Shield Power Relay I
Local Power Plant Manager: Reaction Shield Power Relay I

Medium Subordinate Screen Stabilizer I
Limited 1MN Afterburner I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

150mm Light Carbine Repeating Cannon I,Fusion S
150mm Light Carbine Repeating Cannon I,Fusion S
150mm Light Carbine Repeating Cannon I,Fusion S
Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher,Mjolnir Light Missile

Small Core Defense Field Purger I
Small Core Defense Field Purger I
Small Core Defense Field Purger I

In the following armor tanked fit, you could put a 400mm plate instead of the 200mm and replace the armor rep with a hardner or reactor control unit, and put some projectile weapon rigs instead of the meh ones here, which would probably be better for PvP, as tank hardly matters in fleet battles.

Also note that 200mm autocannons may also be fit.

With the 3-3 mid-low slots architecture, you can play around a lot with this ship's fitting.

[Rifter, Armor tank, MWD]
Damage Control I
Small I-a Polarized Armor Regenerator
200mm Reinforced Steel Plates I

Upgraded 1MN Microwarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I

150mm Light AutoCannon I,Fusion S
150mm Light AutoCannon I,Fusion S
150mm Light AutoCannon I,Fusion S
Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher,Nova Light Missile

Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I