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Hope Troja Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:04:00 - [1] Edited by: Hope Troja on 14/11/2008 04:04:17 CCP's one of the few Developers that actually listen to their players, this can be a good or bad thing but if CCP listen and act on the whines that have permeated all forum sections since QR it will definitely be the latter. IÆm writing this as its inevitable that if the whining gets load enough CCP will roll back. CCP- A small minority may well leave but the majority will adapt. Stand your ground; what you did you did for the good of the game.
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:07:00 - [2] Edited by: Jim Hazard on 14/11/2008 04:07:12 Originally by: Hope Troja Edited by: Hope Troja on 14/11/2008 04:04:17 CCP's one of the few Developers that actually listen to their players, this can be a good or bad thing but if CCP listen and act on the whines that have permeated all forum sections since QR it will definitely be the latter. IÆm writing this as its inevitable that if the whining gets load enough CCP will roll back. CCP- A small minority may well leave but the majority will adapt. Stand your ground; what you did you did for the good of the game. 1st and signed
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:09:00 - [3] Yes, making all missile ships utterly useless for PvP was good for the game. I believe you because you're completely unbia-wait a second. You're Gallente. Might want to check the usefulness (haha) of blasters if you think it's just Caldari getting nerfed,
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:11:00 - [4] The missile nerf and nano nerf were both handled inappropriately. I don't want a rollback. I want a do-over. And this time they need to get it right. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. Made a reality by speed and missile nerf.
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:13:00 - [5] Originally by: Vikarion Yes, making all missile ships utterly useless for PvP was good for the game. I believe you because you're completely unbia-wait a second. You're Gallente. Might want to check the usefulness (haha) of blasters if you think it's just Caldari getting nerfed, For people like you i would wish that ccp would do a rollback for a week.. but not a rollback to 1 week ago but one back to 2003 (just for a week) maybe then all you whiners would finally stop the crying... Eve has become so easy, far too easy and still all the people can only whine...
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:40:00 - [6] All of the devs responsible for making EVE a great game have since moved on to bigger and better things.
Mikhale Romanov Black Hats Delta	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Hope Troja Edited by: Hope Troja on 14/11/2008 04:04:17 CCP's one of the few Developers that actually listen to their players, this can be a good or bad thing but if CCP listen and act on the whines that have permeated all forum sections since QR it will definitely be the latter. IÆm writing this as its inevitable that if the whining gets load enough CCP will roll back. CCP- A small minority may well leave but the majority will adapt. Stand your ground; what you did you did for the good of the game. Um.. did you see the 33+ page post about blasters? or the 28ish about missiles? CCP did not listen and just went ahead with it. The adaption factor was not difficult .. few painters and webs and the problem is solved (for torps) but the range reduction AGAIN kinda sucks.. since my Torp boat can not AB up like it used to. While I gained nothing (my torp raven and widow, both cruise and torp, need atleast 2 tacks and 2 painters) the game is still fun. ZOMG Communism!
Flightcrow	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:12:00 - [8] Can i have your stuff?
Infinity Ziona Extortive	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:13:00 - [9] I bit of forethought and consideration by CCP towards its players would be nice. I have a lot of skillpoints so Im not really affected by the nerf that much but how hard would it have been for CCP to refund all the missile related skill points and allow people to reallocate them. These guys have been doing this for some many years, you build up your character and they in some cases completely reinvent the game and then expect the players to adapt without reallocating skill points affected by the changes. If people want to put them back into the nerfed areas they could but the people who feel badly would be a lot happier then they are now. This is a sandbox game but quite regularly CCP comes along and kicks your sandcastle down without giving you any of the sand back to build it into something else. Ganking Buddhist Nun
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Hope Troja CCP- A small minority may well leave Doubtful. They will just come to the forums in a disposible alt and emoragequit then keep on playing with their main. Hell I've done it a few times for the lulz at the crowd of indignate poasters it always attracts. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Bohoba Caldari HolyKnights	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Hope Troja CCP- A small minority may well leave Doubtful. They will just come to the forums in a disposible alt and emoragequit then keep on playing with their main. Hell I've done it a few times for the lulz at the crowd of indignate poasters it always attracts. I plead the 5th and I will drink one too :) but the game has gon to ****s here latly; I just stick to mining getting and getting rich I use to hate these guys making money of my loses now I will sit back and make money off your losses I plead the 5th and I will drink one too :) 10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:22:00 - [12] Originally by: Infinity Ziona I bit of forethought and consideration by CCP towards its players would be nice. I have a lot of skillpoints so Im not really affected by the nerf that much but how hard would it have been for CCP to refund all the missile related skill points and allow people to reallocate them. These guys have been doing this for some many years, you build up your character and they in some cases completely reinvent the game and then expect the players to adapt without reallocating skill points affected by the changes. If people want to put them back into the nerfed areas they could but the people who feel badly would be a lot happier then they are now. This is a sandbox game but quite regularly CCP comes along and kicks your sandcastle down without giving you any of the sand back to build it into something else. reallocation of SP is a terrible idea and one that CCP will never implement. What on earth is the point of nerfing something if you then give players the means to stop using it and switch to something else that will then need to be nerfed. A bit of forethought by players about the dangers of overspecialisation would be a good idea. All MMOs suffer from the nerf/buff cycle and if you put every second of training into a single skilltree then you can hardly be surprised when the inevitable nerf hits you harder than anyone else.
Infinity Ziona Extortive	Posted - 2008.11.14 06:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: Infinity Ziona I bit of forethought and consideration by CCP towards its players would be nice. I have a lot of skillpoints so Im not really affected by the nerf that much but how hard would it have been for CCP to refund all the missile related skill points and allow people to reallocate them. These guys have been doing this for some many years, you build up your character and they in some cases completely reinvent the game and then expect the players to adapt without reallocating skill points affected by the changes. If people want to put them back into the nerfed areas they could but the people who feel badly would be a lot happier then they are now. This is a sandbox game but quite regularly CCP comes along and kicks your sandcastle down without giving you any of the sand back to build it into something else. reallocation of SP is a terrible idea and one that CCP will never implement. What on earth is the point of nerfing something if you then give players the means to stop using it and switch to something else that will then need to be nerfed. A bit of forethought by players about the dangers of overspecialisation would be a good idea. All MMOs suffer from the nerf/buff cycle and if you put every second of training into a single skilltree then you can hardly be surprised when the inevitable nerf hits you harder than anyone else. Your post is non-sensical. Firstly. Missiles are not overpowered or underpowered. They're fine. Second. Unless you are a CCP dev, you have no idea whether CCP will ever implement a suggested change or not. Do a search and see how many thousands of posts exist saying local will never be removed from 0.0 / low-sec for an example. 3rd. If CCP does nerf something into extinction, you will invariably get almost EVERYONE except die hard role-players training over to the next FOTM - its happened many times before. Thank you. Next. Ganking Buddhist Nun
Pliauga Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.11.14 06:13:00 - [14] Originally by: Hope Troja Edited by: Hope Troja on 14/11/2008 04:04:17 CCP's one of the few Developers that actually listen to their players, this can be a good or bad thing but if CCP listen and act on the whines that have permeated all forum sections since QR it will definitely be the latter. IÆm writing this as its inevitable that if the whining gets load enough CCP will roll back. CCP- A small minority may well leave but the majority will adapt. Stand your ground; what you did you did for the good of the game. I approve this message/statement. ---------- DRONE love rulez!! 'mkay?! .
Mutabae	Posted - 2008.11.14 06:15:00 - [15] Originally by: Vikarion Yes, making all missile ships utterly useless for PvP was good for the game. I believe you because you're completely unbia-wait a second. You're Gallente. Might want to check the usefulness (haha) of blasters if you think it's just Caldari getting nerfed, Oh look. Ignorance. Please biomass your character. Eve is not for you.
SharpMango 14th Legion	Posted - 2008.11.14 06:23:00 - [16] signed.
Cat Molina Minmatar Psychotic Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:10:00 - [17] I'm loving the new changes.
John Hollow Minmatar Afterisk	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:17:00 - [18] Seriously though, only time will tell. No one can jump in the game, try their old setup to find it better/worse and come to a conclusion on the patch. I'm sure CCP will keep a close eye on things in the next couple months and then see if it worked or not. No way to tell if it is better just yet.
geomatica Infusion. G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Jim Hazard Originally by: Vikarion Yes, making all missile ships utterly useless for PvP was good for the game. I believe you because you're completely unbia-wait a second. You're Gallente. Might want to check the usefulness (haha) of blasters if you think it's just Caldari getting nerfed, For people like you i would wish that ccp would do a rollback for a week.. but not a rollback to 1 week ago but one back to 2003 (just for a week) maybe then all you whiners would finally stop the crying... Eve has become so easy, far too easy and still all the people can only whine... Frankly this. And I started playing Oct 04. I'd like to go back JUST TO SEE it, plus to watch the hordes of whiners leave because they can't hack actually having to think about things in EVE. Sig Coming Soon(TM)
Schultze Caldari 0rigins EVESpace	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:26:00 - [20] signed
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:42:00 - [21] Originally by: Mutabae Originally by: Vikarion Yes, making all missile ships utterly useless for PvP was good for the game. I believe you because you're completely unbia-wait a second. You're Gallente. Might want to check the usefulness (haha) of blasters if you think it's just Caldari getting nerfed, Oh look. Ignorance. Please biomass your character. Eve is not for you. I suspect that you haven't tried hitting cruisers with heavy missiles then? Or considered the effect that negatives to web and MWD will have on the Thorax and Megathron, to say nothing of the Deimos. I fly Amarr, and have for almost a year. I'm not hurting. I'm just worried about the direction of the game.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Allen Ramses The missile nerf and nano nerf were both handled inappropriately. I don't want a rollback. I want a do-over. And this time they need to get it right. this is better, CCP keep working, make things better, let player base be happy... missiles that don't hit the same ship class **** me off? Who ever would produce them in space? Unless the target maneuvers there is no way that fat missile won't get the target. Missiles are lighter than spaceships, they are hitters, not fire show rockets.
Djan Anaplian Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:50:00 - [23] These posts are useless to be honest, the players posted in their thousands AGAINST the nano - nerf, CCP ignored them - get on with your lives and adapt.
Kransthow The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:50:00 - [24] adapt or die
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:58:00 - [25] I have to agree with the OP. From my own experience and what I've seen in-game and on the boards, there seems to be two kinds of pilots with this patch. Pilot A: "ZOMGALLMYSTUFFISNERFEDIRAGEQUITRAAAAAAAWR!" ... and... Pilot B: "Well this sucks.. no wait, I just have to re-do my fits a bit... hmm I seem to have a lot more strategy options... this patch isn't so bad after all." ---
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:59:00 - [26] Originally by: Mankirks Wife I have to agree with the OP. From my own experience and what I've seen in-game and on the boards, there seems to be two kinds of pilots with this patch. Pilot A: "ZOMGALLMYSTUFFISNERFEDIRAGEQUITRAAAAAAAWR!" ... and... Pilot B: "Well this sucks.. no wait, I just have to re-do my fits a bit... hmm I seem to have a lot more strategy options... this patch isn't so bad after all." You forget: Pilot C: Hey, I use lasers! That's me. But I think that this nerf was very bad for the game.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Vikarion I suspect that you haven't tried hitting cruisers with heavy missiles then? Or considered the effect that negatives to web and MWD will have on the Thorax and Megathron, to say nothing of the Deimos. I fly Amarr, and have for almost a year. I'm not hurting. I'm just worried about the direction of the game. Well i fly Gallente and i would like you to enlighten me on what will happen to Thorax Megathron and Deimos with the Web changes and the MWD. Please do enlighten the masses. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:17:00 - [28] Edited by: Vikarion on 14/11/2008 08:17:41 Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Well i fly Gallente and i would like you to enlighten me on what will happen to Thorax Megathron and Deimos with the Web changes and the MWD. Please do enlighten the masses. Simple. The nerf to webs comes out to about a 400% decrease in close-range gun tracking. (Check the Ships forum for some threads discussing this.) In addition, the nerf to MWD speeds means that the favored tactic of Gallente blaster boats - i.e., rush in and kill or die - is much less viable, especially when you consider the effect of 7.5 km scramblers. Thus, Gallente got majorly nerfed. I suppose they can still use railguns.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Vikarion Edited by: Vikarion on 14/11/2008 08:17:41 Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Well i fly Gallente and i would like you to enlighten me on what will happen to Thorax Megathron and Deimos with the Web changes and the MWD. Please do enlighten the masses. Simple. The nerf to webs comes out to about a 400% decrease in close-range gun tracking. (Check the Ships forum for some threads discussing this.) In addition, the nerf to MWD speeds means that the favored tactic of Gallente blaster boats - i.e., rush in and kill or die - is much less viable, especially when you consider the effect of 7.5 km scramblers. Thus, Gallente got majorly nerfed. I suppose they can still use railguns. First the problem with the webs can be solved if one chooses to work in a group than alone. Also this made AFs a lot more viable for solo hunt, enyo has a tracking bonus and if you want to use a cruiser and above well you have to use your head and do some planning on what you want to achieve, than using a cookie cutter setup that was handed to you. There are ways to counter this. Secondly there was a speed decrease across the board for all, not for Gallente specifically. Which means that everyone is affected about the same. If you are warping with a blaster boat 20Km away from your target, then it's you who is doing it wrong. The use of MWD was a risk even before the patch due to signature increase and the capacitor use. The warp scramblers can easily be fitted on blaster boats too, so there goes and the opponents MWD. Overreacting was never a good choice. Bellum did have some valid points but then again adaptation is the key. We will adapt and except from a few threads i haven't encountered the panic that Caldari are spewing all over the forums. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.11.14 09:13:00 - [30] /me snickers at the people who think a 30% nerf to webs equates to a 400% nerf to tracking . ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. Made a reality by speed and missile nerf.
Kransthow The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 09:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Allen Ramses /me snickers at the people who think a 30% nerf to webs equates to a 400% nerf to tracking . look at how dumb you are
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.14 09:37:00 - [32] Edited by: The Djego on 14/11/2008 09:39:47 Actualy they did not listen, to many players that spend hours after hours on Sissi and Forums during the devolopment of the Patch, testing with stop watches, spreadsheeds and calculations(based on EFT, correct Fittings, Trackingformula, Missleformula etc) to back them up. There is a 33+ Pages Blaster Thread you can read if you doubt my word about it, you will be impressed how prizse a lot of stuff got tested, compared and talked about with possible solutions that would be mutch smother that the current QR approch in game design. Instead they build a new System of ballance that is fare worse than the last(as all new systems are compared to longer running ones) and removed the biggest imbalences with bulky general changes instead of paticular on ship or on modul ballances. This "BALLANCE" Patch is far far away from beeing perfect, also far away from what It might could be if the Devs actualy let the Players Test with 70 and 75% Webs, 550% MWDs, faster ABs, diffrent Ship speed/mass, redone Tracking Formula and other adjustments to get clear Data on it with Testing(since this is why we where on sissi). But well we are back at CCP listen to players again eh? If you stat CCP done the Patch and listen to players you are wrong in multiply ways and could not beeing in the testing stage on Sissi and the Dev Forums a lot in the last 3 month. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Djan Anaplian Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.14 10:10:00 - [33] Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 14/11/2008 09:39:47 Actualy they did not listen, to many players that spend hours after hours on Sissi and Forums during the devolopment of the Patch, testing with stop watches, spreadsheeds and calculations(based on EFT, correct Fittings, Trackingformula, Missleformula etc) to back them up. There is a 33+ Pages Blaster Thread you can read if you doubt my word about it, you will be impressed how prizse a lot of stuff got tested, compared and talked about with possible solutions that would be mutch smother that the current QR approch in game design. Instead they build a new System of ballance that is fare worse than the last(as all new systems are compared to longer running ones) and removed the biggest imbalences with bulky general changes instead of paticular on ship or on modul ballances. This "BALLANCE" Patch is far far away from beeing perfect, also far away from what It might could be if the Devs actualy let the Players Test with 70 and 75% Webs, 550% MWDs, faster ABs, diffrent Ship speed/mass, redone Tracking Formula and other adjustments to get clear Data on it with Testing(since this is why we where on sissi). But well we are back at CCP listen to players again eh? If you stat CCP done the Patch and listen to players you are wrong in multiply ways and could not beeing in the testing stage on Sissi and the Dev Forums a lot in the last 3 month. Whilst i agree with you, the thread against the nano-nerf went to 70 pages, to be honest i think that is about as clear as it gets as to what direction the players think the game should be going
Lana Lanee Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.14 10:15:00 - [34] adapt or die
Paola DiLivio	Posted - 2008.11.14 10:19:00 - [35] Originally by: Allen Ramses /me snickers at the people who think a 30% nerf to webs equates to a 400% nerf to tracking . Investment banker spotted
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.14 10:55:00 - [36] Edited by: The Djego on 14/11/2008 10:57:43 Originally by: Djan Anaplian Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 14/11/2008 09:39:47 Actualy they did not listen, to many players that spend hours after hours on Sissi and Forums during the devolopment of the Patch, testing with stop watches, spreadsheeds and calculations(based on EFT, correct Fittings, Trackingformula, Missleformula etc) to back them up. There is a 33+ Pages Blaster Thread you can read if you doubt my word about it, you will be impressed how prizse a lot of stuff got tested, compared and talked about with possible solutions that would be mutch smother that the current QR approch in game design. Instead they build a new System of ballance that is fare worse than the last(as all new systems are compared to longer running ones) and removed the biggest imbalences with bulky general changes instead of paticular on ship or on modul ballances. This "BALLANCE" Patch is far far away from beeing perfect, also far away from what It might could be if the Devs actualy let the Players Test with 70 and 75% Webs, 550% MWDs, faster ABs, diffrent Ship speed/mass, redone Tracking Formula and other adjustments to get clear Data on it with Testing(since this is why we where on sissi). But well we are back at CCP listen to players again eh? If you stat CCP done the Patch and listen to players you are wrong in multiply ways and could not beeing in the testing stage on Sissi and the Dev Forums a lot in the last 3 month. Whilst i agree with you, the thread against the nano-nerf went to 70 pages, to be honest i think that is about as clear as it gets as to what direction the players think the game should be going I for myself was for a ballance change at Nano ships, I flown some(would not class myself as a bad Nano Pilote but still wasn¦t realy my thing) but would not call me a paticular Nano Pilote since I had more fun with Blasters and mostly not that big Problems with the single Nano ship here and there or small Nano gangs(I know ofc that the game was diffrent in 0.0 at this time). The Ballance change was needet because Nano did not only offer a very good chance to disengage but also a very effective Fighting style in bigger Gangs against mostly anything that it became the actual gamestlye that dominated. As for a Nano Nerf the patch was overdone to the Nano concept, but it did not only affect Nano ships but mostly all others to(this is why I was talking about a more general change instead of a Nano Nerf) in multiply ways, causing lots of new problems, especialy in my gamestyle(what is small Gang and solo Low Sec action). The new system is not that "bad" at all in my opinion but require a lot more tweaking to make all(or more likly most) of the People realy happy with it and not creating so many new problems that can¦t be realy sloved on the Module basis atm. Web, solo/small Gang Tackle, stoping power to ship that fight on Gates under Sentry aggro, 1o1 style engagements between Cruisers and Frigs like it is not to uncommon in classical piracy or solo BS style PVP, that was actual not that strange in Low Sec because of the Low Sec PVP mechanics. There was and is a lot feedback on the Dev Forum, some in preaty good style with solid testing, explaining the math behind it and simulating more or less "standard" TQ situations, where many good points where made that could have leadet to a better game ballance patch than this one that we got now TQ with QR in my opinion. tl;dr Im not realy a Nano Pilote myself, I didn¦t had the extrem isssues with them(because in Low Sec the game is/was diffrent) and the patch didn¦t only affect Nanos but the hole game ballance in very many ways, where many parts are still done porly atm. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:06:00 - [37] Edited by: The Djego on 14/11/2008 11:06:43 double post ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
DrefsabZN Caldari Butterfly Effect Corp.	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:11:00 - [38] Theres a very good reason most player's only play games and don't design them. They dont have the faintest clue whats good for the game as a whole. Now eve does have a hell of a lot of players that know whats good and whats not. But normally these players are getting on with their game so the people crying their little hearts out on the forums dont represent the bulk of the player base. Keep up the good work CCP, you arnt perfect but you do a damned good job.
Chucky Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:20:00 - [39] Originally by: Hope Troja Edited by: Hope Troja on 14/11/2008 04:04:17 CCP's one of the few Developers that actually listen to their players, this can be a good or bad thing but if CCP listen and act on the whines that have permeated all forum sections since QR it will definitely be the latter. IÆm writing this as its inevitable that if the whining gets load enough CCP will roll back. CCP- A small minority may well leave but the majority will adapt. Stand your ground; what you did you did for the good of the game. Oh they listen to their players, but ****ing ignore them. Webber nerf went too far, F everyone who doesn't see that. ... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture.
SCHLAMPEvomDIENST	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:25:00 - [40] Originally by: Mikhale Romanov Originally by: Hope Troja Edited by: Hope Troja on 14/11/2008 04:04:17 CCP's one of the few Developers that actually listen to their players, this can be a good or bad thing but if CCP listen and act on the whines that have permeated all forum sections since QR it will definitely be the latter. IÆm writing this as its inevitable that if the whining gets load enough CCP will roll back. CCP- A small minority may well leave but the majority will adapt. Stand your ground; what you did you did for the good of the game. Hmmm but u need to think about the people ingame who have still the *** disconnects and the system restarts because CCP cant fix the realtek or other problems. they are invinting ** instead of fixing old problems!!! in my case i have problems with my realtek drivers. so i need a permatank for missions. if i put target painter or / and a webber in the med slots my tank is ruined and i cant do anymore missions, coz on a disconnect i lose my ship Um.. did you see the 33+ page post about blasters? or the 28ish about missiles? CCP did not listen and just went ahead with it. The adaption factor was not difficult .. few painters and webs and the problem is solved (for torps) but the range reduction AGAIN kinda sucks.. since my Torp boat can not AB up like it used to. While I gained nothing (my torp raven and widow, both cruise and torp, need atleast 2 tacks and 2 painters) the game is still fun.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:35:00 - [41] While there are huge whines on specific topics, I have seen huge amounts of anti-whine wrath appear in some threads. This patch has numerous supporters, who occasionally eat whiners alive. CCP should start a thread mentioning the possibility of a rollback, just to see the resulting forumpocalyse. - DesuSigs
Jonny Lumi Gallente Beasts of Burden	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:37:00 - [42] The rule #1 regarding the player base in all MMO's: What ever you change in-game, there will always be people who go emo and cry on the forums about it. If you don't change it, some people will still whine. Come on guys, we've been here only few days, no one can say that CCP won't fine tune these things later. (And yes, I used to fly blaster boats, and I'm bit sad atm. But at least I have a reason to start tweaking things now, and not fly the same boats/fits all the time.)
Zitus	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:39:00 - [43] My Name is Zitus and I approve this Topic
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:44:00 - [44] Originally by: DrefsabZN Theres a very good reason most player's only play games and don't design them. They dont have the faintest clue whats good for the game as a whole. Now eve does have a hell of a lot of players that know whats good and whats not. But normally these players are getting on with their game so the people crying their little hearts out on the forums dont represent the bulk of the player base. Keep up the good work CCP, you arnt perfect but you do a damned good job. Many of the players that where very active in the sissi Testing have done a very good job in testing, comparing and comming up with very good solutions. They spend a very big amount of her time on sissi and forums, even without getting paied for it because they love the game and wanted to help to get it improved and better in the end. Many of them(like me) can fly fare more that only one race and one ship at a very good level and tested not only with one ship and for her "own" needs but tested on everything to get a better picture of the hole situation. And after the post of Nozhs solution to Blaster BS I would give game ballancing in the hands of some paticular players any day of the week without any kind of doubt they would bring a better solution to ballance things up. It is quite a pitty CCP mostly ignored so many testers and her opinion to general and paticular game ballance, that I for myself would not do this kind of testing stunt again. The results where quite good, covering a very large amout of the the game changes but get mostly ignored. Zulus PR Tread was only a PR thing, we where on sissi for so long bringing up so many things that realy deserved a real awnser and review on how the Devs think about it and how they did intendet it and a real comunication in the end. Any Topic about the Patch(minus the Missle PVE thing that did not get tested that heavy and was only aplyied a couple of dayes before it gone live) that is now on the Forums here was covered long ago before QR was released on TQ in the testing stage on sissi, im reading zero new stuff here guyes, mostly things I know that have worked not so good on sissi now get unchanged on TQ and anybody now see them(there is not a single thread now by the active Sissi testers about it because we know about this stuff for a longe time allready and given up on talking about it because we got this kind of poor Dev responses or simply got ignored). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:46:00 - [45] Zeyendd!
Sha'ara Sha'amashira Minmatar StoneDogS	Posted - 2008.11.14 13:33:00 - [46] examples #1) Kestrel Nerf - we suddenly got missile launchers that could only hold the specific type of ammo of the size of launcher (lots of ***ing ensues about the fact that torp volley kestrels with light missile launchers go away. Slowly these complaints die away and we get on with life) #2) Drone Bandwidth - pre drone bandwidth Myrmidon had an equal damage output with its drones to that of a dominix plus in most cases a nastier tank seeing as it got a specific bonus to it and a smaller sig rad (once again lots of *ing ensues from all of those players previously abusing the living hell out of the Myrmi. Slowly those complaints also die away and we continue on with out lives) #3) Mines - we used to actually have mines in game a LLLLLOOONNNGGGGG time ago. They caused massive lag issues, made 0.0 space almost completely inaccessible without being part of an established alliance due to massive mine spam problems (These complaints also went away when CCP nerfed mines by making them completely undeployable) #4) Stackable MWDs - such a shame that once upon a time before the wonderous days of warp to 0 MWDs used to be a single module (that's right no 1mn - 100mn variants just a flat out MWD) and that you could stack them on a single ship. CCP removed this ability and gave use the current variants thereof...sorry to everybody used to flying their itty 5 at 26km/sec but you definitely weren't supposed to be doing that (Whining ensues and then rapidly goes away) #5) Warp to 0 (since i mentioned it above) - Prior to warp to 0 getting anywhere took veritable ages or people to sell you player made bookmark sets of warp to 0 points for specific regions to aid in rapid travel, or heaven forbid you had to make your own. CCP then adds warp to 0. Everybody who was previously *ed about the fact that regardless of what you do if you haven't purchased one of these somewhat mechanic exploiting BM sets you are at a disadvantage and killed many many times by pirates if your oving through low sec. Pirates begin to whine like living hell about it since it suddenly becomes harder for them to catch people in low sec now. tactics adapt and while the act of catching becomes more difficult pirates enjoy a modest boost to the numbers of people traveling through low sec space (the pirates whining slowly goes away) end of examples* Prediction #6) Nano-nerf - after some potential minor tweaking of the current weapon changes to make everybody a bit more happy (but not too much :P) tactics will adapt. People will learn to use these new systems and within 6 to 8 months everybody will think this is how the game always was and should be. (the whining will have gone away, but for sporadic people mainly afflicted with a bad case of nostalgia) CCP will then release new content or make some balanced changes to something else and everybody and every one of the pet slaver hounds will be hollering and screaming that once again this is horrible, I'm going to quit, CCP this cannot stand, Change it back or I'll throw a temper tantrum bull** will all be focused on that now. On a slight side note I would like to point out to everybody that yes lots of people *ed about the nano-nerf but i would then like to return back to farther and farther into the Game Development forum and the Features and Ideas forum months back where the beginning of a large number of please nerf nanos threads begins. Nit picking your info just because your unhappy makes it politics not fact. I whole heartedly agree with the OP. We have adventurous devs on this game who actually are willing to roll that dice and take a risk on stuff compared to the very conservative releases that most other MMOs make when even coming close to a nerf. They aren't going to be able to make everyone happy, unlike real-life EVE has the capacity to make everyone equal with a similar investment of time in a character, when you are brought down from on high to be equal quit your ***in.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:52:00 - [47] Originally by: Djan Anaplian Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 14/11/2008 09:39:47 Actualy they did not listen, to many players that spend hours after hours on Sissi and Forums during the devolopment of the Patch, testing with stop watches, spreadsheeds and calculations(based on EFT, correct Fittings, Trackingformula, Missleformula etc) to back them up. There is a 33+ Pages Blaster Thread you can read if you doubt my word about it, you will be impressed how prizse a lot of stuff got tested, compared and talked about with possible solutions that would be mutch smother that the current QR approch in game design. Instead they build a new System of ballance that is fare worse than the last(as all new systems are compared to longer running ones) and removed the biggest imbalences with bulky general changes instead of paticular on ship or on modul ballances. This "BALLANCE" Patch is far far away from beeing perfect, also far away from what It might could be if the Devs actualy let the Players Test with 70 and 75% Webs, 550% MWDs, faster ABs, diffrent Ship speed/mass, redone Tracking Formula and other adjustments to get clear Data on it with Testing(since this is why we where on sissi). But well we are back at CCP listen to players again eh? If you stat CCP done the Patch and listen to players you are wrong in multiply ways and could not beeing in the testing stage on Sissi and the Dev Forums a lot in the last 3 month. Whilst i agree with you, the thread against the nano-nerf went to 70 pages, to be honest i think that is about as clear as it gets as to what direction the players think the game should be going Yeah, thier direction.. 20ish odd vocal forum members with a ton of alts to back up thier opinion ranting about how the billions in implants and mods they ponied up the isk for are now useless =/= the ingame population. Or do you guys fancy yourselves the Voice of Eve? inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Juicy Fruits Empyrean Age	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:15:00 - [48] yes stand firm. Really heavy shoes may help with that. Originally by: DHB WildCat The raven is a useless POS now. /me cries a tear. WildCat If BE are telling you its broken, its broken!
ramification	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:35:00 - [49] Signed.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:16:00 - [50] Originally by: Vikarion Yes, making all missile ships utterly useless for PvP was good for the game. I believe you because you're completely unbia-wait a second. You're Gallente. Might want to check the usefulness (haha) of blasters if you think it's just Caldari getting nerfed, I only fly Caldari ships and I PVP with missiles just fine. If anything I'd be biased against the changes but I feel they don't make ANY ship "utterly useless". Now with modules fit on my ship and gangmates I can mitigate damage reduction caused by speedy ships with sig radius and do it for the whole gang (TPs etc.). If things are "utterly useless" why am I and many others still having success? I wouldn't even consider myself especially skilled or ingenious in EVE compared to many others. Just another melodramatic over exaggerated knee jerk response to things people don't like. There may be decent arguments that things could be further tweaked for balance sake. I've seen fair sane unbiased posts regarding the changes (both for and against various aspects of it), yours isn't one of them. There are shades of Grey. Just because something is different or slightly less effective in some situations doesn't make it useless. Something many people who post on these forums can't seem to grasp. How many times have people made the "we may as well all be flying shuttles blah blah" "argument". Being completely unrealistic about the status of the game and performance of the ships in it isn't helping your cause one bit. It's one thing to have differing opinions about the effects and their impact of the recent patch, stating bold face lies about it is quite another. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus

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