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quigibow	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:52:00 - [1] Edited by: quigibow on 14/11/2008 04:52:21 This whole missle nerf thing gave me an idea... How about making a Mid Slot mod that increases missile velocity and explosion velocity... That way you can get simular effects of pre-nerf missles but you are forced to give up a mid slot which then gives you less slots to play with for tank.... IF there are mid slot enhancing mods for guns there should be some for missles too...
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:53:00 - [2] You mean like a target painter?
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:56:00 - [3] Guns are not missiles, the more ways they are the different, the better it is for gameplay. Both webs and target painters will help your missiles greatly. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
MenanceWhite Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
quigibow	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:00:00 - [5] Edited by: quigibow on 14/11/2008 05:00:40 Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? no.. target painter is: A targeting subsystem that projects an electronic "Tag" on the target thus making it easier to target and Hit. 25 % to sig radius of target ship.. This is like the missle missile precision skill... IF set ship is going fast then it does not matter if your missles can "catch" up it the explosion velocity of the missle is too slow and you cant hit it... plus caldari are supposed to be the uber long range people... unless you make a mod that can use webbers and target painters at extream range then you need to change thier navy montra...
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:03:00 - [6] Originally by: quigibow Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? no.. target painter is: A targeting subsystem that projects an electronic "Tag" on the target thus making it easier to target and Hit. 25 % to sig radius of target ship.. This is like the missle missile precision skill... IF set ship is going fast then it does not matter if your missles can "catch" up it the explosion velocity of the missle is too slow and you cant hit it... plus caldari are supposed to be the uber long range people... unless you make a mode that can use webbers and target painters at extream range then you need to change thier navy montra... I think you need to research the speed nerf, and the effect sig radius plays with target velocity in increasing missile damage in regards to the new missile damage formula. In short- you mean like a target painter? (also note the 60km range of target painters, that's plenty far for everything except cruise missiles at their max range)
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:03:00 - [7] Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 14/11/2008 05:06:05 Originally by: quigibow Edited by: quigibow on 14/11/2008 04:52:21 This whole missle nerf thing gave me an idea... How about ... No. And it sounds like you've never fitted a target painter. You'll be pleasantly surprised. And yes, it actually does exactly what you want it to do. If you fail to understand what an increased signature radius does, you're doing it wrong. As I said elsewhere, if anything make the BCU scripted (not that i really think it needs any change). Either: A) Unscripted has existing bonuses B) Scripted reduces damage, increases explosion velocity and explosion radius. In english, A) Increased DPS and ROF vs large targets, inefficient vs small targets. B) Reduced DPS and ROF vs large targets, more efficient (read: does more alpha) versus smaller targets. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:09:00 - [8] Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? stop throwing out useful information! You should charge them for it!
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:12:00 - [9] Don't need a fix for something that's not broken.
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:13:00 - [10] Originally by: ShardowRhino Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? stop throwing out useful information! You should charge them for it! man, will the bellicose will finally become a flyable ship? i have one, you know. -- Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:14:00 - [11] It occurred to me that there already is a module that you can put in a mid slot that has the same effect as drastically increasing the missile's explosion velocity and reducing the explosion radius. That module is called the "Target Painter". Check it out, or it's FOTM variant, "PWNAGE".
MeBiatch	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? stupid question... but dont target painters help guns too? or are they not affected by sig radius? By your logic... the explosion velocity bonus on the golem is pointless... why on g-ds green earth would the devs give a bonus to a ship that already has a bonus to target painters... I guess you "get" this game better then them
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Tiirae Don't need a fix for something that's not broken. What about things that are broken? Such as a close range weapon hitting for only 40% against his equally sized opponent? ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. Made a reality by speed and missile nerf.
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:22:00 - [14] Edited by: Gojyu on 14/11/2008 05:23:05 Quote: By your logic... the explosion velocity bonus on the golem is pointless... why on g-ds green earth would the devs give a bonus to a ship that already has a bonus to target painters I guess you "get" this game better then them :Rolling Eyes: No, but I have a feeling I might get this game a little better than you. See the thing about tech II ships is that they generally receive two sets of bonuses, one from the base class of ship that you need level 5 in order to fly, and one from the specialisation (eg marauder, interdictor). Now, sometimes, these bonuses are in different areas to make the ship able to perform two separate roles (eg, most force recons), however sometimes, such as in the case of the golem, the bonuses combine to allow the ship to be really good at a single thing (in the golem's case, hitting smaller ships with large missiles)
Nebulous Minmatar Thukker Insurgents	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:23:00 - [15] Originally by: quigibow Edited by: quigibow on 14/11/2008 05:03:03 This whole missle nerf thing gave me an idea... How about making a Mid Slot mod that increases missile velocity and explosion velocity... That way you can get simular effects of pre-nerf missles but you are forced to give up a mid slot which then gives you less slots to play with for tank.... IF there are mid slot enhancing mods for guns there should be some for missles too... You must not have noticed, they got fixed in the QR patch.
Nebulous Minmatar Thukker Insurgents	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:27:00 - [16] Originally by: Allen Ramses Originally by: Tiirae Don't need a fix for something that's not broken. What about things that are broken? Such as a close range weapon hitting for only 40% against his equally sized opponent? Hoe bout close range blasters that hit for close to 0% because webs have been changed? And thats if you can get in range at all because the speed has been changed also, I've said it once and i'll say it again it's not only missiles that have been "balanced" if they roll back one thing then they would have to roll back everything else and this would make the last patch pointles. Time to adapt people.
MeBiatch	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Gojyu Edited by: Gojyu on 14/11/2008 05:23:05 Quote: By your logic... the explosion velocity bonus on the golem is pointless... why on g-ds green earth would the devs give a bonus to a ship that already has a bonus to target painters I guess you "get" this game better then them :Rolling Eyes: No, but I have a feeling I might get this game a little better than you. See the thing about tech II ships is that they generally receive two sets of bonuses, one from the base class of ship that you need level 5 in order to fly, and one from the specialisation (eg marauder, interdictor). Now, sometimes, these bonuses are in different areas to make the ship able to perform two separate roles (eg, most force recons), however sometimes, such as in the case of the golem, the bonuses combine to allow the ship to be really good at a single thing (in the golem's case, hitting smaller ships with large missiles) i agree you are way more expreiance in internet spaceships but! aint that the problem now... big missles cant hit small **? i use rails at long range and i hit small things just fine.. 100 km + with missles you could hit ** at 220 + i dont know of a target painter that works at that range....
Yuri VanKaer	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:55:00 - [18] There is absolutely no problem with missles in EVE, due to the fact that there aren't any. There are however miss I les...
Mutabae	Posted - 2008.11.14 06:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? Nah, that would be too easy and straightforward. Couldn't possibly work! I won't believe you....
Lady Aja Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.14 06:41:00 - [20] Originally by: quigibow Edited by: quigibow on 14/11/2008 05:03:03 This whole missle nerf thing gave me an idea... How about making a Mid Slot mod that increases missile velocity and explosion velocity... That way you can get simular effects of pre-nerf missles but you are forced to give up a mid slot which then gives you less slots to play with for tank.... IF there are mid slot enhancing mods for guns there should be some for missles too... Heres a fix for you. GIVE ME ALL YOURE STUFF AND SOD OFF! Many kudos to Foulque for my sig..
Sileam Caldari NosferaTech	Posted - 2008.11.14 06:46:00 - [21] Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? How many Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar battleships REQUIRE "target painter" to be able to deal atleast 60-70% of their DPS against the target of the EQUAL size? How many of them uses MED SLOT SHIELD TANK that uses "target painter" slot?
motomysz Militek Industries Integrity Respect Selflessness	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:07:00 - [22] Edited by: motomysz on 14/11/2008 08:07:42 Originally by: Sileam Edited by: Sileam on 14/11/2008 06:46:31 How many of them uses MED SLOT SHIELD TANK that occupies "target painter" slot? How about low slots and armor tanks, you ignorant whiny ass?
Kransthow The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:11:00 - [23] How about a target painter
Tratis Sykes Gallente Heavy Industry Technology and Logistics	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Sileam Edited by: Sileam on 14/11/2008 06:46:31 Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? How many Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar battleships REQUIRE "target painter" to be able to deal atleast 60-70% of their DPS against the target of the EQUAL size? How many of them uses MED SLOT SHIELD TANK that occupies "target painter" slot? Yeah.. I can't fit Tank and DMG Boosting Modules at once cos both are low slot modules. Only Caldari can fit tank + BCU's the same time. Med slots? Cap Recharger for missions. Something you Caldari boons have also no clue about. Ever fired a laser and keep your repper running for 10 minutes? So shut up, dumbass Sir! Sir! .. We are completly surrounded!! - Excelent! Then we can attack in every direction!
Gonada Priory Of The Lemon	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:21:00 - [25] Posting to confirm that there are multiple idiots in the post. Please, jump into traffic
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:23:00 - [26] How about not doing that, and leave as-(wonderful)-is
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:26:00 - [27] Originally by: Sileam How many of them uses MED SLOT SHIELD TANK that occupies "target painter" slot? Heretics, traitors and future biomass My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Gonk Vangler	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:35:00 - [28] Edited by: Gonk Vangler on 14/11/2008 08:38:14 Originally by: Tratis Sykes Yeah.. I can't fit Tank and DMG Boosting Modules at once cos both are low slot modules. Only Caldari can fit tank + BCU's the same time. Med slots? Cap Recharger for missions. Something you Caldari boons have also no clue about. Ever fired a laser and keep your repper running for 10 minutes? So shut up, dumbass Ever wonder why that is? The BCU/tank thing I mean. Ever see any missile ship but a fully passive drake without BCU's in the low's? No? care to maybe speculate on why that is? 1: Missiles have the lowest damage of any weapon class 2: Active shieldtanking eats cap like nobody's business All the drawbacks of pre-QR missiles are still here. And I'll remind you, Caldari are not the only missile users, but they were hit the hardest due to their reliance on the weapon type. If they'd done to your pulse lasers what they've done to my missiles, you'd be ****ed too
Kerfira	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:46:00 - [29] Edited by: Kerfira on 14/11/2008 08:45:49 Missiles don't need fixing (my main is 12m SP in missiles, and 300k in guns). They're perfectly well balanced now where before they were insanely unbalanced! The only thing that need fixing is that the majority of missile whiners need to realise it now takes skill to fly a missile boat, just as it's always required skill to fly a gun boat. You can no longer jump your 2 month character into a raven and earn loads of ISK on L4's. This is how it SHOULD be! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Kransthow The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:51:00 - [30] I found another fix
Chienka Viziam	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Kransthow I found another fix Sorry mate, couldn't find that in the "Launchers and Bays" catagory. What is it per chance?
Kransthow The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Chienka Originally by: Kransthow I found another fix Sorry mate, couldn't find that in the "Launchers and Bays" catagory. What is it per chance? Large target painter
Lana Lanee Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.14 09:24:00 - [33] adapt or die
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.14 09:30:00 - [34] Originally by: quigibow Edited by: quigibow on 14/11/2008 05:03:03 This whole missle nerf thing gave me an idea... How about making a Mid Slot mod that increases missile velocity and explosion velocity... That way you can get simular effects of pre-nerf missles but you are forced to give up a mid slot which then gives you less slots to play with for tank.... IF there are mid slot enhancing mods for guns there should be some for missles too... You mean like adding missile velocity/explosion velocity scripts to tracking computers? That would be the simplest option, and one I advocated instead of the nano-nerf. The people crying about nanos seemed to prefer to whine for nerfs rather than ask for a better too to combat them though :(
Zeta Starg	Posted - 2008.11.14 09:36:00 - [35] OK quick question.... People are saying use Target Painters as a soulution to the missile issue, which is a fair point. The only problem i can see is that Target Painters, as far as i know this is the question part, dont have a very long optimal range and how effective are they when you start using them in fall off. Does the sig increase decrease the further into fall off that you go or doesnt it matter? Just a thought. Zeta
Kransthow The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 09:38:00 - [36] Originally by: Zeta Starg OK quick question.... People are saying use Target Painters as a soulution to the missile issue, which is a fair point. The only problem i can see is that Target Painters, as far as i know this is the question part, dont have a very long optimal range and how effective are they when you start using them in fall off. Does the sig increase decrease the further into fall off that you go or doesnt it matter? Just a thought. Zeta If they work anything like damps they become chance based out of optimal, but optimal on them is fine enough Wait what am I doing... STFU NOOB
Zeta Starg	Posted - 2008.11.14 09:43:00 - [37] If they work anything like damps they become chance based out of optimal, but optimal on them is fine enough Wait what am I doing... STFU NOOB Thank you for that wonderfully usefull input, so basicly u dont know any more than i do. can you tell me optimals with lvl4 / 5 skills do u know if they become chance based or not? thanks
Kransthow The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 09:51:00 - [38] Originally by: Zeta Starg Thank you for that wonderfully usefull input, so basicly u dont know any more than i do. can you tell me optimals with lvl4 / 5 skills do u know if they become chance based or not? thanks 42/45 optimal with l 4/5 with about another 90 for falloff, They are almost certainly chance based going at 100% at optimal, 50% at optimal + falloff and 0% at optimal + 2xfalloff
Zeta Starg	Posted - 2008.11.14 09:55:00 - [39] Originally by: Kransthow Originally by: Zeta Starg Thank you for that wonderfully usefull input, so basicly u dont know any more than i do. can you tell me optimals with lvl4 / 5 skills do u know if they become chance based or not? thanks 42/45 optimal with l 4/5 with about another 90 for falloff, They are almost certainly chance based going at 100% at optimal, 50% at optimal + falloff and 0% at optimal + 2xfalloff Thats Great Thank you very much, Zeta
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.14 10:02:00 - [40] Originally by: Gonk Vangler Edited by: Gonk Vangler on 14/11/2008 08:38:14 Originally by: Tratis Sykes Yeah.. I can't fit Tank and DMG Boosting Modules at once cos both are low slot modules. Only Caldari can fit tank + BCU's the same time. Med slots? Cap Recharger for missions. Something you Caldari boons have also no clue about. Ever fired a laser and keep your repper running for 10 minutes? So shut up, dumbass Ever wonder why that is? The BCU/tank thing I mean. Ever see any missile ship but a fully passive drake without BCU's in the low's? No? care to maybe speculate on why that is? 1: Missiles have the lowest damage of any weapon class 2: Active shieldtanking eats cap like nobody's business All the drawbacks of pre-QR missiles are still here. And I'll remind you, Caldari are not the only missile users, but they were hit the hardest due to their reliance on the weapon type. If they'd done to your pulse lasers what they've done to my missiles, you'd be ****ed too I'm sorry what? Missiles have the lowest damage in any weapon class? Really? So you're trying to say torps have the lower damage than pulses and autocannons? Or how about heavies? Do they have lower damage than rails/arty/beams? And active armor tanking doesn't eat cap?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.14 10:29:00 - [41] Originally by: Sileam Edited by: Sileam on 14/11/2008 06:46:31 Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? How many Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar battleships REQUIRE "target painter" to be able to deal atleast 60-70% of their DPS against the target of the EQUAL size? How many of them uses MED SLOT SHIELD TANK that occupies "target painter" slot? You mean how many gun ship need one or more tracking computer to hit? And how many armor tanking gun ship use low slots to increase the guns damage? Y·Now missile ships are exactly in the same situation of gun ships: to get full DPS you need to use both low and middle slots.
white kight SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs	Posted - 2008.11.14 10:45:00 - [42] Edited by: white kight on 14/11/2008 10:45:16 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Gonk Vangler Edited by: Gonk Vangler on 14/11/2008 08:38:14 Originally by: Tratis Sykes Yeah.. I can't fit Tank and DMG Boosting Modules at once cos both are low slot modules. Only Caldari can fit tank + BCU's the same time. Med slots? Cap Recharger for missions. Something you Caldari boons have also no clue about. Ever fired a laser and keep your repper running for 10 minutes? So shut up, dumbass Ever wonder why that is? The BCU/tank thing I mean. Ever see any missile ship but a fully passive drake without BCU's in the low's? No? care to maybe speculate on why that is? 1: Missiles have the lowest damage of any weapon class 2: Active shieldtanking eats cap like nobody's business All the drawbacks of pre-QR missiles are still here. And I'll remind you, Caldari are not the only missile users, but they were hit the hardest due to their reliance on the weapon type. If they'd done to your pulse lasers what they've done to my missiles, you'd be **ed too I'm sorry what? Missiles have the lowest damage in any weapon class? Really? So you're trying to say torps have the lower damage than pulses and autocannons? Or how about heavies? Do they have lower damage than rails/arty/beams? And active armor tanking doesn't eat cap? Signed. I am a caldari pilot and i am happy with this "nerf". My cerb is now fking awesome short range against larger targets than itself. Caldari now have been brought into line with every other race in terms of dps, tank etc. Grats CCP on a very good expansion (other than stealth bombers are a bi crappy now RIP my poor manticore ) Originally by:** CCP Navigator Thread Locked. Please note that the General Discussion area is not.... Oh who am I kidding - Continue
Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:51:00 - [43] Edited by: Demonic Sentiment on 14/11/2008 11:52:16 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=922401 u gotta read through the thread some but we do finnally get to a mid slot mod.. im not so worried bout my missiles velocity anymoree... but my explosion velocity is REALlY low.. though i have still managed to kill peps lol.. some of them just sit there edit: i am useing cerberus to.. it does to fairly well still... though a explosion velocity mod would help against other hacs : )
Zitus	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:27:00 - [44] BTW, if you are reading this post then you've missed the point of this topic. Read post one then two. </thread>
Karille Gallente Lordless	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:55:00 - [45] This is a target painter, a module used by missile boat pilots with a brain.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.11.14 13:01:00 - [46] Originally by: Kerfira The only thing that need fixing is that the majority of missile whiners need to realise it now takes skill to fly a missile boat, just as it's always required skill to fly a gun boat. Amen. If you have as much invested in missile skills as turrets need, they work just fine (in some cases slightly better, in some cases slightly worse). They are pretty much balanced now. The fact that they were totally out of whack before was the problem, which resulted in low-skill people soloing lvl4s in Ravens. Try the same with a gunboat with the same amount of skill points and see how well you do. Missiles now need skills, and also some thought into fittings. Like all other weapon systems. My missiles seem to be working just fine. Funny that.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.11.14 13:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Gonk Vangler 1: Missiles have the lowest damage of any weapon class In what universe? In practice, a torp Raven does equivalent damage to a blaster Megathron, ffs, with totally superior range, switchable damage types and no cap use. "lowest damage" my ass.
quigibow	Posted - 2008.11.14 23:16:00 - [48] A Target painter helps drones/guns/missles... tracking computer helps guns.... Now that Missles are Brought inline with guns... There should be some mod that is used only for boosting missles on the mid slot to help with long range combat.. IF not then why have missles that can shoot up to 200km+? Guns can shoot 200km+ (on certain ships) and dont need a alt in a Huginn just to hit the small ships...
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2008.11.15 12:36:00 - [49] Originally by: quigibow Edited by: quigibow on 14/11/2008 05:03:03 This whole missle nerf thing gave me an idea... How about making a Mid Slot mod that increases missile velocity and explosion velocity... That way you can get simular effects of pre-nerf missles but you are forced to give up a mid slot which then gives you less slots to play with for tank.... IF there are mid slot enhancing mods for guns there should be some for missles too... Or they could just make missles more realistic instead of oversized bottle rockets. then again people would actually have a choice of what weapons to use in PVP and might get confused.. so nvm. Wouldnt want to expand the options to builds any, would we CCP?
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.11.15 13:15:00 - [50] Edited by: Jim Hazard on 15/11/2008 13:19:13 Originally by: Sileam Edited by: Sileam on 14/11/2008 06:46:31 Originally by: Gojyu You mean like a target painter? How many Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar battleships REQUIRE "target painter" to be able to deal atleast 60-70% of their DPS against the target of the EQUAL size? How many of them uses MED SLOT SHIELD TANK that occupies "target painter" slot? How many shield tanked battleships need their medslots to increase the dps? (edit: by using damage mods) Originally by: quigibow A Target painter helps drones/guns/missles... tracking computer helps guns.... Now that Missles are Brought inline with guns... There should be some mod that is used only for boosting missles on the mid slot to help with long range combat.. IF not then why have missles that can shoot up to 200km+? Guns can shoot 200km+ (on certain ships) and dont need a alt in a Huginn just to hit the small ships... In return there is no ew to lower the explosion velocity and speed, while there are those evil things which are called tracking disruptors which are pretty nasty.

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