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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.14 23:31:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Akita T
By the gods, she's on to me 
You can't just pull the wool over my eyes, Akita!  |
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 23:35:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Akita T
By the gods, she's on to me
You can't just pull the wool over my eyes, Akita!
(S)he should try cotton instead. |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.14 23:37:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 14/11/2008 23:38:08
The problem here is that after reading the whole thread there are two very good points of view. I vote to not talk of "renerfs" and let things fall where they might for a few weeks. I mean it has only been 2 days. Lets see how things work when people start mixing up their gangs EDIT: and fits.
Slade
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.14 23:40:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
And hitting for 40-60% of max damage is different then turrets how?
Let's see... you CAN make your turrets hit for nearly 100% damage even if your target is sporting an AB in a similarly fit ship by simply matching velocities, but you can't do the same with missiles (no, not even dual/triple bonused painters plus expradius or expvelo rigs will do that, while same TP but tracking rigs WILL nearly do that even if you barely have half speed for transversal negation with turrets)... and also turret max damage is usually noticeably higher than missile max damage (and no, switching ammo is really not much of an option for a lot of missile boats, and even if it is for some, there's usually little point in doing that since most people try to have no big resists holes for PvP).
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 23:46:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Akita T
Lack of "TQ PVP experience" is not a disqualifier for an informed opinion on a "hot topic" issue.
Except that it is. |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.11.14 23:47:00 -
[66]
or if you could pass me the old formula
'cause lets face it, there's no 3500m/s AB cruiser, not even the scythe fleet issue -.-
so... while AB cruisers crawl around with their <1000m/s, waiting for that huge cycle to end in order to start the mwd, even caldari BS can overrun them with theirs. and then it's at least one -60% web while still having the signature penalty? |
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 23:51:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
or if you could pass me the old formula
'cause lets face it, there's no 3500m/s AB cruiser, not even the scythe fleet issue -.-
Sure, but how many 3500m/s AB frigates are there? |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.11.14 23:52:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Megan Maynard
And hitting for 40-60% of max damage is different then turrets how?
Let's see... you CAN make your turrets hit for nearly 100% damage even if your target is sporting an AB in a similarly fit ship by simply matching velocities, but you can't do the same with missiles (no, not even dual/triple bonused painters plus expradius or expvelo rigs will do that, while same TP but tracking rigs WILL nearly do that even if you barely have half speed for transversal negation with turrets)... and also turret max damage is usually noticeably higher than missile max damage (and no, switching ammo is really not much of an option for a lot of missile boats, and even if it is for some, there's usually little point in doing that since most people try to have no big resists holes for PvP).
So you, the mighty AKita T are telling me that I can attain wrecking hit status on nearly every hit? The same hits that do *Gasp 40% more damage then a typical hit?
Try again.
In addition, missles are:
A. Capless, something that us minny pilots live with everyday as a reason for lower damage and fall off rather then optimal bonuses.
B. Able to strike any targets, locked or not locked in the missiles range.
C. Shortest skill path to use effectively.
D. Do all damage types.
E. Have the capability of the highest alpha as well as the highest DPS in game.
F. Have an excellent ROF and Clip size.
G. Have no counter from any ECM for their attributes.
Finally, until you apply all these facts to a pvp situation and actaully inflict damage in game you are no more then a "what if" troll.
Making things bold and trying to make other posters that disagree with you seem stupid to invalidate their arguements is petty.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 23:55:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Pohbis on 14/11/2008 23:55:35
Originally by: Megan Maynard
That is a trade off. That is fair.
Can missiles then have the same base damage as guns now, since it's all equal and now?
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.11.14 23:57:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Pohbis
Edited by: Pohbis on 14/11/2008 23:55:35
Originally by: Megan Maynard
That is a trade off. That is fair.
Can missiles then have the same base damage as guns now, since it's all equal and now?
See above post.
And I believe that's what the short range High damage missiles are for.....
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.11.15 00:06:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Akita T
Can you slap a target painter on that chart? 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.15 00:06:00 -
[72]
Quote:
So you, the mighty AKita T are telling me that I can attain wrecking hit status on nearly every hit?
You'd get 300% of base DPS that way, with all shots wrecking.
The AVERAGE DPS against a stationary target in optimal is 102% of base DPS, not 100%.
Yeah, sure, you DON'T get anywhere close to 50% DPS if you have a high transversal or you're out of optimal, but if you DO have a speed comparable to the enemy ship's speed, you CAN get close to the base 100% DPS with not that much effort.
Quote:
A. Capless, something that us minny pilots live with everyday as a reason for lower damage and fall off rather then optimal bonuses.
And still, projectile boats outdamage missile boats at point-blank range.
Quote:
B. Able to strike any targets, locked or not locked in the missiles range.
You haven't been using FOFs much, have you ?
Quote:
C. Shortest skill path to use effectively.
Not much of an advantage.
Quote:
D. Do all damage types.
And with the exception of the Raven, Khanid and a handfull of minnie ships, you're pretty much forced to only use kinetic most of the time anyway.
Quote:
E. Have the capability of the highest alpha as well as the highest DPS in game.
High alpha against stationary or nigh-motionless targets, sure. And about DPS, only if you're talking torp Raven, because other than that... not even close.
Quote:
F. Have an excellent ROF and Clip size.
Compared to what ?
Quote:
G. Have no counter from any ECM for their attributes.
Have no low/mid slot module to boost the attributes either.
And no, a TP is not a booster to missile attributes. Even if it does help, indirectly. But other than the Golem, hmm, what race DOES have TP bonuses on their ships, I wonder...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.15 00:44:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Akita T on 15/11/2008 00:45:45
Originally by: Pohbis
Can you slap a target painter on that chart?
Let me "zoom in" on the "up to 2km/sec" area and add not just one TP, but several variations of TP.
There you go:
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Linkage
P.S. The OLD chart has the "pre-qr" line WRONG.
I was mistakingly using the QR expvelo with the old formula.
Corrected to include OLD pre-QR expvelo of HMs in the QR damage curve.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.15 00:54:00 -
[74]
Oh, hey, what, no more "just fit a TP and it's fine" replies ?
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.15 00:57:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 15/11/2008 00:57:52
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 14/11/2008 20:21:31
Solution : +100% sigradius penalty to T1 afterburners 
P.S. Less for higher metalevels, of course.
How about: boost ABs to 200% speed boost, un-nerf MWD - read: remove the ******ed mandatory scrambler, fix web back up to 80%.
Small ship (with AB) viability solved, solo tackle problems solved, death is not a certainity for non-frigate hulls in a gatecamp, EVE stops feeling like a slow-down version of grab the soap.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.15 01:00:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
How about: boost ABs to 200% speed boost[...]
Post #56 in this thread...
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Miss Artica
Gallente
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.15 01:01:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 14/11/2008 20:21:31
Solution : +100% sigradius penalty to T1 afterburners
P.S. Less for higher metalevels, of course.
Everyone should stop with the "This is overpowered... that is overpowered..." Lets just see how things go for more than 1 week. |
Voicelessly
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Posted - 2008.11.15 01:03:00 -
[78]
don't mess with Akita, he's king of eft warriors. for some reason it doesn't help his actual skills though |
Voicelessly
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Posted - 2008.11.15 01:04:00 -
[79]
don't mess with Akita, he's king of eft warriors. for some reason it doesn't help his actual skills though |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.15 01:05:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Miss Artica
Everyone should stop with the "This is overpowered... that is overpowered..." Lets just see how things go for more than 1 week.
"Things" have been going like this for MONTHS on the test server.
Do you think bringing it almost unchanged on TQ will be any better ?
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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
L8L8L8
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Posted - 2008.11.15 01:05:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Neth'Rae
lol, btw..
Am I the only one who thinks Akita's portrait looks like 60 year old lady on the forums? (but not when you see the larger version)
I think he is a 60 year old lady, IRL... |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.15 01:06:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov
I think he is a 60 year old lady, IRL...
You're sort of half-right in a weird way
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Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.11.15 02:32:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov
I think he is a 60 year old lady, IRL...
You're sort of half-right...
30 year old?
Originally by: Akita T
...in a weird way
She-male?
Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
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Miss Artica
Gallente
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.15 03:55:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Miss Artica
Everyone should stop with the "This is overpowered... that is overpowered..." Lets just see how things go for more than 1 week.
"Things" have been going like this for MONTHS on the test server.
Do you think bringing it almost unchanged on TQ will be any better ?
There were lots of bugs that were not on sisi occurred on TQ.... but im just saying, the whole face of combat has changed..... let more than just the hard core sisi guys figure out some fits, and see what works, what doesn't... just cause someones pwn mobile raven. *lol* does not work anymore does not mean they cant adapt... |
Zora
Gallente
Concealed Intentions
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Posted - 2008.11.15 06:38:00 -
[85]
Well, as I was fitting my retribution today I wondering about the same thing... fitting an AB will give me more of a speed tanking boost (against missiles, at least) than a MWD ever would, but at much lower absolute speeds. That does seem kinda counter-intuitive...
No sig penalty, no cap penalty, and less cap need overall combined with the new advantages does indeed make a very good argument for ABs, but I didn't think as far as Akita did now and see them as overpowered 
Increasing the speed of the ABs and adding a sig penalty does seem like a good overall way to balance them. But: I don't want a bastard child of a MWD, there has to be a clear distinction between the two. No Mini-Microwarpdrive.
All maths and formulas aside, I'm not sure introducing the same kind of penalty the MWD has to ABs would be a good thing...
Btw Akita, really nice to see you extending your positive influence to GD now. It's rare to see a sensible discussion here in this day and age.
You don't flame Akita... she makes you flame yourself by delivering a perfectly logical reason for yourself to do so |
Zapsus
Amarr
Tritanium Transportations
Pack of the Forgotten
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Posted - 2008.11.15 06:55:00 -
[86]
Good evening Akita T,
the title "Afterburners are overpowered (and also underpowered) :)" is contradictory. Afterburners are either overpowered or underpowered. The following posts of Akita T will be disregarded. See [Alliance] BoB Capital Ship Fleet.
Yours sincerely,
Zapsus
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Zora
Gallente
Concealed Intentions
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Posted - 2008.11.15 07:09:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Zapsus
Good evening Akita T,
the title "Afterburners are overpowered (and also underpowered) :)" is contradictory. Afterburners are either overpowered or underpowered. The following posts of Akita T will be disregarded. See [Alliance] BoB Capital Ship Fleet.
Yours sincerely,
Zapsus
It doesn't always have to be black or white. If you had bothered to actually read the arguments presented in this thread, you would know that it is about being overpowered in one aspect, while being underpowered in another. 
Also, how does this relate to any COAD thread?  |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.15 07:19:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Akita T
[
Quote:
C. Shortest skill path to use effectively.
Not much of an advantage.
Looking the number of 2 millions SP raven pilots crying in forum that they can't complete level 4 missions now, it was.
Most fun thing is that at least some were PvPers alts used to make money.
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2008.11.15 07:39:00 -
[89]
they should make them work more like this as well.
like they should of made it that AB turn faster and sharper then mwd's. the faster you go the wider the turn right?
it only makes sence.  |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.11.15 11:20:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 15/11/2008 11:21:46
with MWD included
but this is about the afterburner
well, since heavy missle boats with MWD will always catch you and your AB, let's see what happens with webs. the x-axis shows your "max speed" and the graphs indicate how your damages changes if at those settings 1 or two webs were applied
and you want to add more signature...?
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putting the gist back into logistics |
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