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Null/void ammo?

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4THELULZ	Posted - 2008.11.15 12:57:00 - [1] Hey, I've just recently got tech 2 blasters and was wondering about the t2 ammo, both look pretty good on paper but in practice what are the pros and cons of both? Do they work well? Or should I just stick with antimatter ammo? I've seen a few setups around for bigger ships that were using null, but don't know much about it myself. Thanks!
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.15 13:01:00 - [2] Never used void. Null is usefull sometimes in large and small ships. My blaster BS always carry null, especially a rokh should have it, but also for a mega it is very handy. Then my taranis uses null also to have more than 500m range. With cruisers and AFs i dont bother carrying null.
Shotar Aronia Intaki Mining and Exploration.	Posted - 2008.11.15 13:05:00 - [3] The temptation is to go for the Void as it is the higher damage ammo. However, it comes with a Range penalty, a tracking speed penalty, a falloff range penalty AND a capacitor need penalty....all of which is pretty harsh. Fit your ship and take a look at what kind of range you can get using Void (use EFT or simply purchase and fit one round of ammo to get the hard numbers). Generally its not used though. Most of the harder hitting tech two ammo is crippled by its drawbacks (Void or otherwise).
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2008.11.15 13:18:00 - [4] My usual word against Void is always the same, the bonuses are way too harsh to be of any use in comparison to Faction Antimatter, especially the tracking penalty it has, which is just made even more severe post-patch. Why have such a high dps bonus if you can barely use it? Never used Null though so can't comment on that. I personally just stick with Federate Antimatter.
4THELULZ	Posted - 2008.11.15 13:32:00 - [5] Thanks for the feedback. So void is right out - any opinions on null?
El Dracula	Posted - 2008.11.15 13:48:00 - [6] People always slate Void, which is fair enough considering Faction Antimatter is a lot better, but for some reason I always use Void in my gank Mega in gangs, and have never had a problem yet. It is also cheap like the budgie.
Adaera	Posted - 2008.11.15 13:57:00 - [7] Edited by: Adaera on 15/11/2008 13:58:44 One question; what kind of tracking speed is "enough" in a typical frigate vs frigate fight? I'm looking at about 4.1ish with antimatter and 3.1 with null; the range on null is pretty nice but is that tracking speed too poor for it to be worth it? (sorry to hijack your thread but I'd like to know this as well) Oh and to answer OP; the tracking on void I've found is appallingly bad and as someone else said faction antimatter is generally better there Edit: typo
Elias Modron Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat	Posted - 2008.11.15 16:04:00 - [8] Basic rule with blasters is to always use Federation Navy or Caldari Navy Antimatter. Void is only worth using in large blasters when you're fighting other battleships. Best used with the Megathron, because the Mega's tracking bonus goes someway to cancelling out the penalty on the Void. Don't bother using it in any other size. Null is useful in large blasters as well, especially in a Rokh. With weapon grouping it's a lot easier now to switch between Null and Antimatter. If you warp into a fight and your target is at 20km or so, switch your Megathron's blasters over to Null and close the range. Once you get to about 12-14km switch to Antimatter and pile on the damage.
Sean Faust Gallente Point of No Return Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.15 16:51:00 - [9] If youre a Taranis pilot or a Blaster BS pilot you'll probably find yourself using null more than anything else. And even in cruiser sized ships (especially ones that get falloff bonuses like the Deimos/Astarte) you'll want to keep it handy. But aside from that, stick with Caldari Navy/Federation Navy Antimatter. The tracking, range, and cap use penalties associated with void make it practically unusable in many situations. With t2 turret ammo, the long range ones are ALWAYS useful. For short range, however, Void (the blaster one) and conflag (the pulse laser one) completely suck compared to faction ammo because the damage you get from it is only a very slight increase over faction, while the penalties are very severe. Hail (the autocannon one) also has severe penalties but the damage increase is much greater, somewhat making it viable.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.15 16:52:00 - [10] Null is essensional when you can¦t dedicate Range or have to fight out of Web Range(on BS Blasters and Falloffbonused Med Neutrons). It was the basic line of defense when it comes to BS vs old Nano Fittings and now it¦s mostly the better choice in Web Range against a Cruiser with Med Guns to find a spot where you can hit and still do damage in your web Range(that is mostly not in the common Antimatter Range).

Krystal Demishy	Posted - 2008.11.15 19:35:00 - [11] Originally by: Furb Killer Never used void. Null is usefull sometimes in large and small ships. My blaster BS always carry null, especially a rokh should have it, but also for a mega it is very handy. Then my taranis uses null also to have more than 500m range. With cruisers and AFs i dont bother carrying null. This is what i do too.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.11.15 22:05:00 - [12] Never under any circumstances use Void (or any other short-range T2 ammo). Faction short-range ammo (CNAM, in this case) will do 99.9999% of the damage with none of the penalties. For example, on a full-gank Megathron, you gain a whole 13 dps over CNAM at the cost of crippled tracking. BTW, when did Void get a range increase over CNAM? Not that it's enough to make it good, but when was this? ----------- Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
Thercon Jair Minmatar InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.15 23:50:00 - [13] As pointed out by some people: T2 short range ammo is currently dirt cheap, and it has its uses, although limited. If you're shooting a very big target the tracking malus is not going to really affect you, but you'll notice the slight increase in DPS. And as said with the long range T2 short range weapon ammo, it's useful when you chose to stay out of webrange (barrage for minmatar ships), or are sure you're fighting a target that you're not going to get close enough (null for gallente blaster boats). Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar!
Mag's MASS	Posted - 2008.11.16 00:45:00 - [14] Void sucks, but even though we know it was nerfed to a pointless waste, the devs don't think so. If the devs have there way the only decent ammo (faction) will be even more expensive. The only way to do this ofc, is to reduce the availability of faction ammo. Originally by: CCP Zulupark T2 vs faction ammo: I think the balance is fine but I think that faction ammo is just way too common and cheap.
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.11.16 04:47:00 - [15] Null can be proper win on a blaster-rokh or Gallente BS. If the target is out of range of normal ammo, he might be in range of Null, so it's better than nothing at that range, especially when you consider a full skilled Rokh pilot will be scoring hits at around 32km. Which is none too shabby for a blaster! Of course, it helps if you're target is large and immobile but I surprised a few complacent rapier pilots who thought it was safe to sit still 22km away before. Also, as already stated, Null is very good on the Taranis and Void is horrible under all situations always. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.11.16 06:44:00 - [16] All T2 ammo is useful if you can find the right circumstance for it. Unfortunately for null ammo, the extreme short range coupled with the extreme lack of tracking combined with the new web nerf means actually hitting a target will require target painters and a half dozen webs. If you think about it, both null and void are words that essentially mean "noting" or "zero" and that's a rough approximation of their actual damage in game most of the time.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.16 08:24:00 - [17] I gotta agree with everyone posting... Faction Antimatter is better than Void in almost all situations (in a BS fight or going up against a carrier/dread Void will do in a pinch). I have a new found love for Null after logging in the other day and managing wrecking shots of 900-1300 damage at 22km or so on a BS. I just wish it was more available
Ka Jolo The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.11.16 08:55:00 - [18] With small turrets, I've used Void to get hundreds of solo kills. When tracking appears to be an issue (generally only against T2 frigates), I simply slow down or hit "approach." The idea in many of my fits is to use overwhelming DPS and kill my target before my own tank (or lack thereof) becomes an issue.
nakKEDK Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.16 09:32:00 - [19] the reason i use void(bfore patch): antimatter -50% range void -25% rage and when you got a bs webbed it doesnt matter with the extra tracking. just pop it faster :) works for me :P
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2008.11.16 09:37:00 - [20] Void, the drawbacks are pretty extreme and faction antimatter does pretty much the same damage with no drawbacks. Void is cheaper if I remember correctly however... Null is important to have if you can't get within antimatter range. Its nice to carry around in addition to antimatter.

Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.11.16 11:00:00 - [21] Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 16/11/2008 11:01:23 Null is great stuff, especially on range-bonused ships. You're not going to get Pulse Laser or even AC range, but you'll be doing better than stabbing range. Void is pretty much crap, given all its penalties. 90% of situations where Void would be good, Faction Antimatter will work just as well (and 90% of the other 10% it's not worth the 10 seconds you lose to swap out ammo), and most of those situations it'll work better due to better tracking and cap use. Void is good for bashing on offlined POS towers though, if for some reason you can't get Dreads out there. It's not like it'll be going anywhere fast.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.11.16 11:07:00 - [22] Before the patch I used to use Void L as it gave me 5km range instead of 3.375km that with the slight damage increase over faction AM and the higher proportion of thermal damage, gave you an edge over other Blasterthrons. With 60% webs though, there's too much scope for the tracking penalty to really hit. -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
arbiter reformed Minmatar Systematic Chaos.	Posted - 2008.11.16 11:12:00 - [23] i must say its worth carrying around t2 closerange on bc's/ cruisers for quick bs take downs imo. traking doesnt really matter then this is coming from a amarr pilot tho. conflag i think is more used cant see why tho
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.16 11:28:00 - [24] Originally by: arbiter reformed i must say its worth carrying around t2 closerange on bc's/ cruisers for quick bs take downs imo. traking doesnt really matter then same, only use it for fighting a size above, like in a brutix attacking a bs Originally by: arbiter reformed this is coming from a amarr pilot tho. conflag i think is more used cant see why tho much much cheaper, sucks paying 10 mil for 7 amarr navy multi's for throwaway geddons
Mutabae	Posted - 2008.11.16 13:25:00 - [25] Originally by: Mag's Void sucks, but even though we know it was nerfed to a pointless waste, the devs don't think so. If the devs have there way the only decent ammo (faction) will be even more expensive. The only way to do this ofc, is to reduce the availability of faction ammo. Originally by: CCP Zulupark T2 vs faction ammo: I think the balance is fine but I think that faction ammo is just way too common and cheap. I keep forgetting what an idiot that man is, and how far he should be kept from any job involving balance. Thanks for reminding me of the terrible truth. On topic, I can't think of a use for void. Null's handy though and I have it in my cargohold for occasional use. I've yet to see how it works 'in the wild' post patch though.


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