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Is the Zealot really that good?

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Warrio Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:13:00 - [1] SO I hear ranting both ingame and on the forums from time to time about the Zealot being this fantastic HAC that is loved and feared by all or some such. I myself fly only Amarr with alot of SP invested into the ships and weapons which I love though the awe striking power of the Zealot has always eluded me. It seems to do less DPS than the Harbinger, be more expensive and not really that fast. Its Range is good but only as a pure DPS ship since not being in point range makes things a little "pointless" (hahaha) unless you have a significant sized gang in which case things usually get ganked back to the stone age regardless of what I'm flying. It's cheaper and more agile than the Absolution but has significantly less tank and damage. On top of this the complete lack of a drone bay seems to make it a little rigid in its combat role. So what gives? Is there a way to make this ship actually cost effective against, say, the Harbinger?
Deschenus Maximus Amarr The Grim Reapers	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:33:00 - [2] Fit it with beams. Mobile sniper platform.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:45:00 - [3] Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 16/11/2008 14:47:00 Its always been good, but now the tracking, the range and the high damage on an armor plated machine of devine justice is really fantastic. Deschenus here went from Amarr to Minmatar and is probably back in his Amarr ships. . .I'm sure Ruah of PIE is rolling on the floor with pleasure (they argued a lot about Amarr vs. Minmatar).
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.11.16 14:53:00 - [4] Edited by: BiggestT on 16/11/2008 14:55:13 I see what you mean, i know sisi != tq but it was an interesting result. I was in a cerb, 150km out just harrassing the public in ffa3 in fd-h. A zealot comes in and i target it and let the volleys start flying. I notice him burn towards me, so i burn in the opposite direction to gain more time. He gets to about 50km and is already down to about 30% armour, so i thought "hehe ill suprise him!" I burn towards him to get to point range at which time hes almost in structure. Then i watch in horror as my shield goes down to 60%, 30% etc to the dismay of my booster (yeah i had no grid for an LSE so i had a booster :p, my cap was fine). I sat there open mouthed as i went into armour and he was about 50% structure. I just managed to pop him when i as at 13% armour, so yeah i was stoked. Point of the story: Close range zealot melts faces! A harby cld never have caught up to me and i wlda just burned outta range if i saw that same event occur against a harbinger (the zealot and i never got within web range, only disrupt range so that wld never stop me getting away if he was slower).
Deschenus Maximus Amarr The Grim Reapers	Posted - 2008.11.16 15:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Atius Tirawa Deschenus here went from Amarr to Minmatar and is probably back in his Amarr ships. . .I'm sure Ruah of PIE is rolling on the floor with pleasure (they argued a lot about Amarr vs. Minmatar). That is correct. The time of Minmatar is over. Amarr Victor! (though actually, I'm only starting to play Eve again, after a month of playing WAR)
Pac SubCom A.W.M	Posted - 2008.11.16 15:31:00 - [6] Originally by: BiggestT Point of the story: Close range zealot melts faces! Your resists?
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.16 16:34:00 - [7] Its a good ship, only prob is it can't tank very well. That makes it hard to use when sentries are shooting you. Also, due its good DPS output and the light tank, should make it toward the top of the list for primary's for most FCs. I haven't flown it since the speed nerf, but I'd like to see how well it can track now. I know the Geddon can't track ** inside of 10k, even webbed. ------ // This is by design. When a ship jumps through a gate, it clears all aggression. // - BH ****** Pew on gate, if it gets hot, jump through and Ctrl-Q. Game mechanic endorsed by CCP.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.11.17 01:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Pac SubCom Originally by: BiggestT Point of the story: Close range zealot melts faces! Your resists? Only in 35-40 on em, but in the high 70's/low 80's for therm, so it still had to tear up a bit of ehp..
Lady Aja Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.17 04:53:00 - [9] Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Pac SubCom Originally by: BiggestT Point of the story: Close range zealot melts faces! Your resists? Only in 35-40 on em, but in the high 70's/low 80's for therm, so it still had to tear up a bit of ehp.. Hey BT... even a good pilot ina devoter will take down a ill prepared drake.. but.. yeah zealots rock. more so at 40m a pop :) for pvp i use harbies tho...
Jodie Amille Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.11.17 05:35:00 - [10] If you fit it the same as a harb, then just use the harb. If you toss a few TE's in lows, then suddenly you have a ship that does things the harb will never be able to do as effectively. ;)
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.11.17 06:41:00 - [11] Until last Tuesday, I literally never had any reason to fly any zealot fitting other than the 3 HS, 3 TE, 2 locus rig, 61km, 490 dps pulse fitting, which was by far my favorite fitting of my favorite ship. Since QR I can only get 50km optimal, which actually pushes me dangerously close to gates in order to be able to cover them - I have to be about 35km off the gate, which means theoretically something could jump through and be less than 20k away from me; or alternatively I end up only being able to cover about half the gate. The loss of 10km of range actually hurt a lot :( Nowadays I'm trying to figure out what to do with the thing. I don't want to plate it cause then it's too slow. I've been thinking about maybe an AB/scram/cap booster dual rep thing... sort of like a laser sacrilege, but the sacrilege does that job much better. TBH I'll probably just continue to fly it with the locus rigs and 50km optimal. It's quick, locks fast, hits hard, and hits pretty much everything in the main battle, although things 100+km away are obviously out of reach. I'm not likely to use it much as the lol solo gatecamping ship anymore though :(
Jodie Amille Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.11.17 06:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Terianna Eri Until last Tuesday, I literally never had any reason to fly any zealot fitting other than the 3 HS, 3 TE, 2 locus rig, 61km, 490 dps pulse fitting, which was by far my favorite fitting of my favorite ship. Since QR I can only get 50km optimal, which actually pushes me dangerously close to gates in order to be able to cover them - I have to be about 35km off the gate, which means theoretically something could jump through and be less than 20k away from me; or alternatively I end up only being able to cover about half the gate. The loss of 10km of range actually hurt a lot :( Nowadays I'm trying to figure out what to do with the thing. I don't want to plate it cause then it's too slow. I've been thinking about maybe an AB/scram/cap booster dual rep thing... sort of like a laser sacrilege, but the sacrilege does that job much better. TBH I'll probably just continue to fly it with the locus rigs and 50km optimal. It's quick, locks fast, hits hard, and hits pretty much everything in the main battle, although things 100+km away are obviously out of reach. I'm not likely to use it much as the lol solo gatecamping ship anymore though :( I still use that fit minus the locus rigs for small skirmish gangs. It's not as comfortable to fly as before but it's still good IMO :)
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.11.17 07:04:00 - [13] Originally by: Jodie Amille Originally by: Terianna Eri Until last Tuesday, I literally never had any reason to fly any zealot fitting other than the 3 HS, 3 TE, 2 locus rig, 61km, 490 dps pulse fitting, which was by far my favorite fitting of my favorite ship. Since QR I can only get 50km optimal, which actually pushes me dangerously close to gates in order to be able to cover them - I have to be about 35km off the gate, which means theoretically something could jump through and be less than 20k away from me; or alternatively I end up only being able to cover about half the gate. The loss of 10km of range actually hurt a lot :( Nowadays I'm trying to figure out what to do with the thing. I don't want to plate it cause then it's too slow. I've been thinking about maybe an AB/scram/cap booster dual rep thing... sort of like a laser sacrilege, but the sacrilege does that job much better. TBH I'll probably just continue to fly it with the locus rigs and 50km optimal. It's quick, locks fast, hits hard, and hits pretty much everything in the main battle, although things 100+km away are obviously out of reach. I'm not likely to use it much as the lol solo gatecamping ship anymore though :( I still use that fit minus the locus rigs for small skirmish gangs. It's not as comfortable to fly as before but it's still good IMO :) Yeah, but I can't really justify bringing something without a point to a smallish gang, and in larger gangs I miss the range. Hmm... perhaps something like: 5x HPL II (Scorch, AN MF) 10mn MWD II // 24km // SB II (Need this to catch cruisers on gates, btw ) 3x HS II // DC II // EANM II // ANP II // SAR II 2x Locus Rig I (in case you want to use old zealot rigs) 44km optimal, can rep itself back up from the stray fire it gets while you warp out, some resists, lots of damage, can shoot multifrequency from outside of overheated web and scram range (15km), still locks quickly although I don't expect it to be the pod-and-frigate-nabbing-monster that it was. To answer the OP's question: The zealot is great because even at HAC IV you still get 30km optimal and over 400 dps with scorch, with the ridiculous tracking of pulse lasers. It's not the most raw DPS of any ship on the field (although you can push it to over 600 with navy MF >_>), but there are precious few targets in a typical fight that the zealot won't be able to deal very effective damage to. The ship doesn't do much, but it has picked one thing to do ("That thing over there? I'm going to shoot it") and does it fantastically well. (P.S., I didn't think it was all that great either, and then I flew it, and then I was like omg, and then I trained HAC V for it, and then I was like OMG, and now I'm here ranting about the thing.)
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 07:51:00 - [14] In short: yes, it really is that good. The only reason it compares so "badly" to the Harbinger is because the Harbinger is also really ****ing good. It comes down to personal preference, if you're going to use the Zealot's superior range and speed, fly a Zealot. Otherwise, get your nice cheap gank ship and fly a Harbinger. ----------- Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2008.11.17 08:02:00 - [15] The QR patch brought the Zealot in-line with the other HACs I think, reduced range from stacking locus rigs and slower speeds using MWD. Before it was just downright nasty with the 60km range and BS damage (BS at that range mind you). The downside is that it goes through Scorch crystals like a housewife through bonbon's. I sometimes suspect that whomever at CCP designed it has a character with the Scorch BPO It is still too early to tell what kind of fittings will rise to the top, the old massive tracking/range/damage still works well but is no longer optimal, active tanks may well make a come back on the Zealot with AB.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.11.17 08:11:00 - [16] Edited by: Terianna Eri on 17/11/2008 08:14:25 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida It is still too early to tell what kind of fittings will rise to the top, the old massive tracking/range/damage still works well but is no longer optimal, active tanks may well make a come back on the Zealot with AB. I'm torn on Zealot + AB. At most it's going to go 837 m/s with decent acceleration - but that's overheated and with no plates or armor rigs slowing you down, and I'd be worried about being able to make it back to gates with anything much less than that. Might be an okay tank with dual reps and no tank rigs - you can still get it up to about 400 dps tank and still have 2 damage mods. Edit: Oops, I was looking at EFT at the time - the 400 dps tank is with a strong Exile :P without that and without heat you're looking at 300 dps, with heat 400, with heat and booster 500 On the other hand, you 100% need an injector and will probably need 800s too, since you're running 5 cap-heavy guns, plus AB, plus dual reps, and you can only hold 7 800s in cargo (because the Zealot loses a whopping 210 m3 cargohold compared to the Omen). The other question is - do you fit a 9km scram so that you will be able to 100% control range in web range, or a 24km scram so that you can actually use the huge optimal range of your lasers in combat? OR you can use a sacrilege, tank better, have way more cap stability, be able to use 400s instead of 800s and carry about 4x as many cap boosters, and carry light ecms ,and have a spare high for a neut, at the expense of a considerable chunk of DPS and a good amount of range (Zealot + Scorch = 35km, Sac + Javs = ~30km).
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.11.17 08:44:00 - [17] Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Pac SubCom Originally by: BiggestT Point of the story: Close range zealot melts faces! Your resists? Only in 35-40 on em, but in the high 70's/low 80's for therm, so it still had to tear up a bit of ehp.. Hey BT... even a good pilot ina devoter will take down a ill prepared drake.. but.. yeah zealots rock. more so at 40m a pop :) for pvp i use harbies tho... I was in a cerb.. Are you joking or just ignorant? not sure which :P EVE history Missiles post-nerf
Ancy Denaries Caldari Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens	Posted - 2008.11.17 08:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida ...The downside is that it goes through Scorch crystals like a housewife through bonbon's. I sometimes suspect that whomever at CCP designed it has a character with the Scorch BPO ... You know, that really made me giggle. Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.11.17 09:37:00 - [19] Zealots are too good compared to other hac-s it needs a huge nerf. like remove 2 turret slots.
Delichon The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.11.17 09:51:00 - [20] After patch T2 MWD on Zealot = moar cap (speed is still ok if you wasn't planning on nanoing Zeal) Moar cap on Amarr ships = moar win. Discuss.
Forum Chav	Posted - 2008.11.17 14:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Delichon After patch T2 MWD on Zealot = moar cap (speed is still ok if you wasn't planning on nanoing Zeal) Moar cap on Amarr ships = moar win. Discuss. what's with the 'discuss'? you sound like some form of lecturer who walks in, drops a subject bomb, then walks out casually instructing his students to 'discuss'. don't be such an arse. you want to know something or state what you consider a fact then do so, but stop with the 'discuss' cr@p
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.11.17 14:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Delichon After patch T2 MWD on Zealot = moar cap (speed is still ok if you wasn't planning on nanoing Zeal) Moar cap on Amarr ships = moar win. Discuss. This is a true statement, especially because Amarr ships need to MWD less to get into range. I can definitely say that I have noticed the additional cap that I have now compared to pre-QR.
Sean Faust Gallente Point of No Return Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.17 14:55:00 - [23] Since we're on this topic, can someone please post some good sniper fits for the zealot? and specify whether you use t2 or faction ammo?
Chum Tea Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.17 15:09:00 - [24] Edited by: Chum Tea on 17/11/2008 15:11:25 [Zealot, Beam Sniper] Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Add a CCC for cap stability. Edit: Removed locus rig due to skill requirement.
Durethia Black Plague.	Posted - 2008.11.17 16:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Pac SubCom Originally by: BiggestT Point of the story: Close range zealot melts faces! Your resists? It doesn't matter what the resists are. If he had 90/90 em/the it wouldn't have made any difference.
Sean Faust Gallente Point of No Return Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.17 16:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Chum Tea Edited by: Chum Tea on 17/11/2008 15:11:25 [Zealot, Beam Sniper] Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Add a CCC for cap stability. Edit: Removed locus rig due to skill requirement. Will all of that fit with AWU IV or does it require it to V? and what are the realistic damage/range numbers it puts out with all pertinent skills at IV rather than V?
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2008.11.17 16:17:00 - [27] Originally by: Sean Faust Originally by: Chum Tea Edited by: Chum Tea on 17/11/2008 15:11:25 [Zealot, Beam Sniper] Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Add a CCC for cap stability. Edit: Removed locus rig due to skill requirement. Will all of that fit with AWU IV or does it require it to V? and what are the realistic damage/range numbers it puts out with all pertinent skills at IV rather than V? It fits with AWU 4 (as long as you don't put on weapon rigs), also using the scripts is rather silly since the guns shoot at about 105km optimal and 10km falloff and without the scripts you get about 112km lock range. Maybe use one script. So 105 + 10 km, dps is about 270. Remeber, zealot has no drones and the tracking on it with beams sux donkey balls, so anything that can get in tackle range will most likely thrash it. For short range, use faction multifrequency, not gleam. All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.17 16:59:00 - [28] Originally by: Naomi Knight Zealots are too good compared to other hac-s it needs a huge nerf. like remove 2 turret slots. Jesus christ, yet another muppet who thinks that the way to deal with broken ships is to break the rest. If you think your HACs aren't performing don't whine like a little schoochild for the other guy's to be gimped as well. Analyse why yours is weak and put forward a proposal.
Arthur Guinness Digital assassins G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.11.17 17:03:00 - [29] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Naomi Knight Zealots are too good compared to other hac-s it needs a huge nerf. like remove 2 turret slots. Jesus christ, yet another muppet who thinks that the way to deal with broken ships is to break the rest. If you think your HACs aren't performing don't whine like a little schoochild for the other guy's to be gimped as well. Analyse why yours is weak and put forward a proposal. I'm pretty sure that was meant to be tongue-in-cheek......
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum TRUST Coalition	Posted - 2008.11.17 17:14:00 - [30] Originally by: Chum Tea Edited by: Chum Tea on 17/11/2008 15:11:25 [Zealot, Beam Sniper] Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Add a CCC for cap stability. If you want the past-optimal locking range (which is always useful for ships that start outside your range and head towards you), I'd go with a single sensor booster and an ionic projection rig - scripted you'll get over 133km lock range, and you get the unscripted option at 109km + gang bonuses, which may well be enough and has slightly better locking time. And what to do with this extra mid slot? ECCM. I don't expect we'll be seeing a reduction in Falcons in QR, and with a >100km optimal + HAC mobility the Zealot is fairly well-placed to counter them. Since you weren't using your rig slots for anything specific anyway, moving one of the SBs to a relatively cheap rig in order to make space for ECM protection strikes me as a very good idea.

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