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chopper14
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Posted - 2008.11.16 20:57:00 -
[1]
bieng the ceo of a corp that has used a medal rewards system since its conception long before ccp caught up with the idea i eagerly started creating medals to replace our old sytem of putting symbols in our fleetmembers titles. I assumed the 5 mil was a 1 time creation cost but after makeing several of them I decided to actually award them to my members and realized its 5 mil to create and 5 mil to award each time. after some really slow math with a calculator i realized it would cost me over 480 mil just to create and award medals to the members who have already earned them. with new medals being earned every day and 16 medals available to be earned all of them being earned as many times as a member qualifies. I see no alternative but to keep the old system and abandon the new medals. I can see a one time printing plate creation fee for the medals costing 5 mil, but i cant understand why each aditional medal would cost the same when I can buy tons of the gold medals equivilant (omber) for 5 mil which would give me enough to print medals made from only a few oz's for several liftimes in real. what are the odds of doing away with the awarding cost of medals or at least drastically reducing the awarding cost of them to a managable lvl? or should we just create them and put their coresponding sybols in the title's info so our members know which medals to go to in the corp page and look at? 
When I spend half a bil its going to be on ships for my fleet. i cant imagine any ceo with a medals system seeing medals as feasably possible in the current system, since the bigger the corp the bigger the cost and I would imagine they would rather buy caps then whaste their money on a issuing 5 million isk bronze medals to their members. |
the thorn
Tres Viri Guard
Tres Viri
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Posted - 2008.11.16 21:16:00 -
[2]
wall of text
/signed anyway |
Krystal Demishy
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Posted - 2008.11.16 21:22:00 -
[3]
Yeah i totally agree.
5 millions for a medal is way too much.
Before the patch I thought they would have been free, but now i hope at least in a significant price reduction (i mean 10k 20k would just be enough tbh). |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.11.16 21:24:00 -
[4]
I kinda agree, although medals are a nice isk sink and there's definitely no need to award medals for all kinds of stuff.
How about 5 mio creating and 1 mio awarding a medal?
That would reduce the reoccurring costs to 1/5th. |
Mattk50
Caldari
House Maadiah
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Posted - 2008.11.17 00:41:00 -
[5]
If medals cost you too much, make the medals a 1 time thing to earn thing and difficult to earn.
lets say... if your member donates over 1 bil to your corp you give him the "Mr. Fatwallets award" not the "i got into a bantam award" why not just give your members 5 mil instead? im sure they would rpefer it over a medal.
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chopper14
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Posted - 2008.11.17 01:13:00 -
[6]
thanks for all the input. 1 mill would be 4/5ths better than 5mil. here are some examples of the basic medals we employ.
♥= the purple heart earned for being pod killed in the line of duty.
☼= omega star earned for valor and courage under superior firepower.
♦= Mercoxite Diamond, earned by following your comanding officers orders to a T thus becoming an invaluble asset to the fleet.
♣= Club of the Pack, earned for overcoming unsurmountable odds 3-1 or more
○= Stealth Fox, earned by the stealthiest members of the fleet for being unhuntable by their enemies for 6 reconisance missions in a row.
◙= Arkonor rock of the corp, awarded to a member who has upheld the goals and ideals of the 418 to their highest standards for more than 6 months.
►= Leadership under fire
ñ= Explorer's Compass, Given to a pilot for exploring inhospitable regions acuratley providing valuable reconisance data for the 418's future expansion.
X= Kills made by a 418 pilot. inocents will not count and will be considered strikes on your record and may cause some medals and possibly ranks to be stripped from a pilot and even expulsion from the corp.
å=Sword of the Gaurdian. winning has nothing to do with it. this medal is bestowed on a pilot that has risked his own to save a nuetral pilot from the hands of pirates. showing the galaxy at the most basic level that we are here to help.
ʎ= Wish bone Demerit, earned for commiting crimes against the inocent players of eve. you wont get many of these before being ejected from the 418 these are a black mark on a pilots record and are named the wishbone because anyone who recieves one will wish they hadden't.
the purple hearts are easy to get folowing orders aparently isnt always so easy and not many get the club of the pack medal or the omega star so i think they must be dificult to achieve only 2 have gotten the sword of the gaurdian. so yes some are easy like purple heart but other are not easy to claim at all. and the purple heart reminds me how many times that member had beed destroyed for my corp.
thanks for the imput keep going ;)
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.11.17 01:42:00 -
[7]
You could tweak the requirements a bit. Instead of a purple heart for each time you give one per ten times. And so on.
Makes them more special on the receiving end too. |
Delaeon
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.17 01:55:00 -
[8]
Medals should be rare, and expensive.
They should add something called "Ribbons", which should be cheaper.
Who want's a bunch of noob chars from single man Corps walking around with a "fruit salad"?
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ninjaholic
Gallente
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
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Posted - 2008.11.17 01:59:00 -
[9]
Edited by: ninjaholic on 17/11/2008 01:58:53
You're not supposed to hand them out like sweets to kids on halloween.
Like freedom, they're meant to be rationed to the corp members 
SUPPORT EVE-O's OWN IN-GAME FIGHT RECORD TOOL !! |
Bad Harlequin
Minmatar
The Harlequinade
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Posted - 2008.11.17 02:07:00 -
[10]
No, this is the wrong way of going about it.
Recent posters above me say they want medals to be rare, and for them not to be given out for goofy reasons. However, they won't get what they want. What they will get is lots of medals given out for goofy reasons by corps with lots of money to burn, and an abandoned medal system by smaller groups who may've used it properly who see the cost as ridiculous.
If you think price can replace good taste, look at the Trumps
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-- we all live in a yellow subroutine -- |
Hesod Adee
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.11.17 02:35:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: chopper14
thanks for all the input. 1 mill would be 4/5ths better than 5mil. here are some examples of the basic medals we employ.
I think I see your problem here, you give out worthless medals that are easily earned.
Quote:
♥= the purple heart earned for being pod killed in the line of duty.
Are there any PvP players here who haven't been podded as part of their PvP ?
And your killboard should track this well enough.
Quote:
☼= omega star earned for valor and courage under superior firepower.
Give us an example of what qualifies someone for this.
What happens if they take the risks because they were drunk, or someone else was paying for the stuff they lose ?
Quote:
♦= Mercoxite Diamond, earned by following your comanding officers orders to a T thus becoming an invaluble asset to the fleet.
Following orders should be the normal course of events, not something rare enough for a medal. You should punish those that don't follow orders.
Quote:
♣= Club of the Pack, earned for overcoming unsurmountable odds 3-1 or more
Playercount, or do you take enemy fittings into account ?
Quote:
○= Stealth Fox,
◙= Arkonor
I don't know enough about these to comment.
Quote:
►= Leadership under fire
Wouldn't this be any leader who gets in a fight with the enemy ?
Quote:
ñ= Explorer's Compass, Given to a pilot for exploring inhospitable regions acuratley providing valuable reconisance data for the 418's future expansion.
A worthy medal. Unless you give out too many.
Quote:
X= Kills made by a 418 pilot. inocents will not count and will be considered strikes on your record and may cause some medals and possibly ranks to be stripped from a pilot and even expulsion from the corp.
You killboard should track this well enough for kill count medals to be irrelavant.
Quote:
å=Sword of the Gaurdian. winning has nothing to do with it. this medal is bestowed on a pilot that has risked his own to save a nuetral pilot from the hands of pirates. showing the galaxy at the most basic level that we are here to help.
This sounds reasonable.
Quote:
ʎ= Wish bone Demerit, earned for commiting crimes against the inocent players of eve. you wont get many of these before being ejected from the 418 these are a black mark on a pilots record and are named the wishbone because anyone who recieves one will wish they hadden't.
Punishments should be under a different system to the medals.
Quote:
the purple hearts are easy to get folowing orders aparently isnt always so easy
Well, following them well enough to get noticed would be. Unless you have someone watching them.
I say you really need to look over which medals you award. Along with reading the patch notes whenever an update comes out.
Quote:
# A personnel manager, director or CEO can then award a medal they have created to their corp members either by context selecting the corp member in the chat channel or using the memberlists and multi selecting many members. The cost of awarding a medal is 5million ISK per award to each member. The same medal can be awarded multiple times to the same member
Originally by: Bad Harlequin
No, this is the wrong way of going about it.
Recent posters above me say they want medals to be rare, and for them not to be given out for goofy reasons. However, they won't get what they want. What they will get is lots of medals given out for goofy reasons by corps with lots of money to burn, and an abandoned medal system by smaller groups who may've used it properly who see the cost as ridiculous.
And making them cheap will see lots of corps giving out useless medals making them all worthless, instead of just the ones the rich corps spam out.
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I support skill queues. |
Bad Harlequin
Minmatar
The Harlequinade
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Posted - 2008.11.17 03:18:00 -
[12]
So?
You want to enforce value. You can't, really. You're going to have stupid worthless stuff no matter how you price it, so why make it hard on creative people?
Besides, this is YOUR or MY opinion on worth. Let the market decide, so to speak. If some corp has 23432 medals per member, they will quickly be ignored and dismissed as silly. Medals will have worth based on the criteria and the source, not the cost of making them.
You need the contrast. You're afraid of letting people define their own values of worth or how to use the medal system. You're personally affronted by the idea that some corps might hand out a lot of medals? Laugh at them. Mock them in local. Wardec them, whatever your current level of personal elitism demands, it's all part of the game. Making a high barrier to entries *removes* part of the game. Charging a lot for the medals creates a barrier to everyone, not just the worthless.
If you don't understand this i don't know how else to explain it to you. You want a mechanism to enforce your subjective standards. You have it anyway: your guns, your voice.
Corps *should* have the opportunity to make silly choices and not be taken seriously. Some of 'em will even alter their standards based on this feedback; others won't, and will be 'd at to your heart's content. Win-win.
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-- we all live in a yellow subroutine -- |
BrysonBennington
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Posted - 2008.11.17 04:04:00 -
[13]
Edited by: BrysonBennington on 17/11/2008 04:07:02
Edited by: BrysonBennington on 17/11/2008 04:05:08
I served in the military and this is how it would go otherwise you would up with a chest full of medals going over your shoulder and down your back.
Good Conduct (LOL, for those in know, anyway) you are awarded one Good Cookie ribbon for your first three years of good conduct. Then four years later you are awarded a black star. You would receive one of these black stars for every four years of good cookiness after that until you had retired.
Now comes the confusion.
You may have spent 30 years in the military and kept your nose clean but you would have actually earned only 7 stars (1 ribbon for the first three years, then 6 more stars for the remaining 27 years)
Only four stars would be used on the ribbon, once the max amount had been reached, the stars would be replaced by stars represanting ten years, (silver star) the black star would then represant four years of service. So someone with 30 years of good conduct would have had the intial ribbon ( 3 years) plus two silver stars (20 years) and one black star (28 years) in lieu of their third silver star.
A set-up like this for any medal set will eliviate long lines of symbols representing your awards.
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chopper14
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Posted - 2008.11.17 14:59:00 -
[14]
Nice enthusiasim great critisisim good heat, I like it keep going.
hesod I can see your point. when we first started our medals were realatively easy to get but we ended up raising the standards on them when it became a burden to remember everyone who earned them and that was without any cost. i can see your point tho and fully agree they shouldnt just be handed out. most of our medals are only earnable through an action during war.
and some can only be earned once per war ussually we get together and have a meeting to see who we think earned what. i dont give medals to myself my members have to decide if ive earned a medal and i ussually turn them down. club of the pack has yet to be earned because is is meant so be against 3 ships where at least 2 of them are equal or superior not a noob fleet. if you look at battleclinic you will see that for our 3 wars we have been the noobs in every case taking black birds and rifters up against paladins and rooks. and loosing our noob piloted bs's to 3yr old pilots bc's we have also never surendered and have gained the respect out of 2 of the 3 corps we have warred with and can now count them amongst our friends. it is the qualities in my members that created these qualities in my corp and that send ripples through our entire alliance. for instance, when my Admiral fired on a member of our alliance fleet for breaking the nrdsi policy to protect a nuetral. he wasnt drunk or dumb he knew the repercussions that would follow hes the one that negotiated them into the alliance in the first place, but he did it anyway because as much as he liked him he had broken our rules and that is intolerable to the 418. that corp left the alliance over the incedent another followed but those who stayed dont break the nrdsi policy. thats how he earned his medal. 
bad, thanks for your suport i apriciate you comming back not only to defend our points of veiw but hundreds of others who feel the same.
bryson, recently my friends and family members have been returning from our war more and more and they are covered in ribbons and each have a box of medals. at my friends wedding in sept i was the best man and the only civillian and his buddy from the war was carrying a bag full of pins and ribbons, if eve makes a system for ribbons i would employ them in place of certain medals. in eve 3 years to get a medal wouldnt work ussually people quit eve after 3 years they either move on to a new stage, or their wife finally puts her foot down. we have to scale down time allitle bit. we have a medal simalar to the black star called rock of the corp its gained every 6 months for being a good member and upholding the views of the corp. it comes hand in hand with the spirit of the corp which indicated you get a share. shares are not for sale and can only be earned by the medal system.
but i would be glad to transfere these to a ribons system as long as ribons dont cost 10 mil everytime i issue one
you have all impacted my views on medals and i will be changing some of them because of your advice. i cant wait to see what kind of medals pirates will be running around with and im surprised there arent any skull and bones in the medal creation or other pirate related stuff since most the poulation of eve are either miners or pirates
Thanks keep going.
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.11.17 15:24:00 -
[15]
If you, as a corporate entity, can't shell out 5 mil to create or assign a medal, how much is it really worth anyway?
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Daevonar
Minmatar
Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.18 00:00:00 -
[16]
Dont be so free with your medals then... its not an honour to receive one if that many are being given out daily.
Maybe run the new system as a new tier above yours. |
Daevonar
Minmatar
Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.18 00:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Delaeon
Medals should be rare, and expensive.
They should add something called "Ribbons", which should be cheaper.
Who want's a bunch of noob chars from single man Corps walking around with a "fruit salad"?
Now that is a good idea. |
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